which radar to buy

[HaraldS]

Re: MARPA

Think you wil find the option on all higher end radars. I know Simrad has it and I think Furuno also. It puts some strain on the image processing of the internal processor, as you have to match targets on an ongoing basis. Whether it works depends on the matching capabilities and your heading reference. Most don't work when it gets a bit rougher. If you don't have a heading refernce that's giving you a steady heading at a high output rate, you can forget it. I heard that PC based solutions are ofeten a lot better in hanging on to a target than what's built into the small radars. But in all cases a small boat is a challenge.

A real gyro is not a very practical option on a sail boat, as it eats a lot of power and costs more than the radar. So people have come to use cheap accelerometers combined with a fluxgate compass to fake a gyro. These things don't have any moving parts and are cheap when you buy them for model helicopters, and ten times that when you buy it from a marine electronics supplier.

KVH used to build a very good one covering all three axes, but it was/is some 4000 Euro.

It comes cheaper than that when you get it as an option for the AP. Last year I fitted the new Raymarine 400G AP, which has this fake gyro (just one axis), and it works very well. I ran a separate data cable to the radar (NEMA, they recommend not using their SeaTalk as it could be too slow.) I now get a very stable image on course up, (thats, not where the boat is pointing, but where it should be pointing) and that is already a huge help normal radar use in rougher conditions.

Needless to say that the AP itself also works a lot better in following sea.



<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.taniwani.de>http://www.taniwani.de</A>

 

[duncan]

thank you - even found a RD68 dsc VHF for 340 as well - now who wants an RD64 non dsc for 150?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[timevans2000]

Re: chart plotter v radar

In flat seas my RADAR will pick up lobster pot markers and even seabirds flying past. obviously it doesnt do this when there are any waves.

For me there is no comparison with chart plotters and RADAR.

If you are half way across the Irish sea, it dark, its foggy. a plotter is no benifit. A radar could stop you from being run down by the numerous ships that speed along with no concern for small boat safety. I have had enough near misses under these circumstances to know what I would rather have. Incidently my radar is the Furuno 1723. It is the latest small boat model. Excellent bit of kit but Furuno UK service is not what it could be. They have no dealer in the whole of North Wales.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[chriswilliams29]

thanks to you all but today i purchased the JRC 1000 FOR ONLY £675 FROM MAILSPEED AT BURNHAM ON CROUCH. got to say very helpful and if you want to buy the JRC 1500 its less than a grand . on special offer at the moment.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[tcm]

I agree that better radar sets offer more features. But when you need it, i think radar is binary: It either works and sees other vessels. Or it doesn't work and is less use than a chocolate teapot. You only want to see a blob. You don't much care if the blob is big for big vessels and small for others. Or if it's in colour, or that the blobs are vessel-shaped or anything.

My last boat had the very very cheapest - about £1500 lcd screen (now equtes to probly 600 quid), my current boat has colour display, 10inch screen with overlay and extra-massive whirly thing up top. But when I needed it, either does the job just as well. You see a blob in total non-vis and hurl a turn to stbd, or under power, to further and futher offshore. You don't stop to think hmm but the blob is blue, not green, or big rather than small. Well, not at 20 knots in a powerboat you don't. You just turn.

Incidentally, you do not need to see miles and miles away. "Seeing" 16 or 24 or 36 miles is interesting but of little use. If the surrounding are blank, you might zoom out from looking at 3 miles to 6miles. Even a small powerboat with low radar arch and the cheapest kit can do this. But any of the radar set will allow you to count seabirds, and all will pick up a vessel or cliff or reflector a couple of miles away, and when you're nearly glued to the set cos you can see nothing out of the window, you will notice it no problem.

In recent tests the JRC brand seem to come out well in the lower priced range.

incidentally, with radar fitted, I believe you should use it as often as poss, even on sunny days to check it is working, that you can pick other vessels on the screen, are slick with the buttons and so on. In fact, with radar fitted, I beleive it might count against you if you did not have the thing running and had any sort of collision with another vessel.

Good luck

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[duncan]

Re: chart plotter v radar

as I think I said, I have absolutely no doubt that when 'out at sea' , passage making, crossing shipping lanes radar comes into it's own. Just as when you are a small open boat on inshore passage and a lot of reefs exist just under the water a chart plotter beat the hell out of a chart and compass.
Fog tends to go hand in hand with calm conditions and I accept at face value your observations re lobster pot markers and gagree the value of such , however when I have been on board smallish vessels with 'cheaper radars' they have failed to pick up other small craft let alone pot markers - just like most fishfinders and fish!
Radars are coming down in price, and software improvements are no doubt helping with screen output...............given the above I suppose I am going to have to do a tcm (with soltron) and go out, buy one, fit it and come back here in a few months with comments.
Just in case I am saving this thread !!!!!!!!!!!!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[tome]

Re: chart plotter v radar

<Fog tends to go hand in hand with calm conditions>

Glad you didn't tell me that when we came across the channel in F7 and thick fog!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jimi]

Re: chart plotter v radar

Disagree fog and calm conditions always coincide! I've seen pretty poor vis. in a F6 and Tome relates a scarey Channel crossing in a foggy F8. Personally I'm a lot more relaxed about shipping lanes now I've had radar fitted. I concur wholeheartedly with what TCM has said and also like to emphasise that IMHO its vital to be able to see the radar screen easily from the helm.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[duncan]

Re: chart plotter v radar

I was trying not to find to big an issue with the loss of pot markers in less than calm conditions/forums/images/icons/smile.gif
however I stick with the statement 'tends to' as applied to INSHORE conditions - against which I have been basing all of my comments in this thread, as stated when made.
I apologise for not specifically referenceing that in the last post and will punish myself with rum tonight for being so inconsiderate.............

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[tome]

Re: chart plotter v radar

Quite right Duncan, and I hope you take your punishment like a man. I just had a call from my friendly pub landlord to say the Morris dancers are visiting tonight and for me to be there.

Last year I ended up participating in Indian head-dress and they weren't amused, but the landlord and other muppets were. Don't recall a lot about it personally - a truly foggy night and I seem to recall the wind got up later.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jimi]

Re: chart plotter v radar

Are you taking the old battleaxe with you again?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[tome]

Re: chart plotter v radar

Definitely not. I can handle the fog, but her wind was awesome!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jimi]

P. Sooper?

nm

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[tome]

Re: P. Sooper?

No thanks Inspector, I just had one.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[timevans2000]

Re: chart plotter v radar

my furuno cost me £900 plus the mast mount. The screen quality is very good.

I did a comparison at the boat show and the resolution/ clarity of the screen seemed noticably better than the small JRCs and the cheapest Raytheon. The JRC seemed particularly poor.
I have mine mounted about 8 metres above the water and I was picking out large ships over 12 miles away as I crossed the Irish sea last week. It also picked up the coast of Wales at its maximum range of 16 miles. It didnt do so well on the Irish side as the land was lower lying so it didnt get such a good reflection.

It reliably picked up a Westerly Centaur that we were cruising in company with at 6 miles away without a reflector in a F4/5 with a choppy sea as long as you have the gain adjusted for the conditions. It also proved very useful when navigating through the strong tides of Bardsey Sound as you can see your actual track in relation to the surrounding land.

I take your point about inshore passages and reefs. They dont show up too well on RADAR! I guess it depends where you sail. I only draw 2 foot 8 and we dont have many reefs that cause a hazard to me.

Ideally you would have both plotter and radar, but I have a full size chart table and wouldnt know what to do with it if I dint have my charts open and pencils out. I guess I jusy like the old fashion way. It has never caused me a problem

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[duncan]

Re: chart plotter v radar

thanks for the extra details - can I ask where you got your unit?
Note - at the risk of prolonging this/forums/images/icons/smile.gif the highest point above sea level I can mount this is going to be more like 8 ft than metres ; however I am happy with a range of around 2 miles for any task I would use the radar for.
I have (2) chartplotter(s) to tell me where any fixed object is and find that I have them set one at 0.5 and the other at 2 mile ranges most of the time.
Item like Kimmeridge Ledges off Dorset Coast project out for about a mile just a couple of feet under as one example and the North Brittany Coast Paimpol to Treburden can have isolated rocks rising 80ft in places. A chart plotter makes navigation almost too easy in these cases - or importantly enables you to give the appropriate clearance without massive detours or no-go areas.

I want to be able to see pot markers, non charted buoys (racing marks for instance), trot buoys etc in reduced or zero visibility as well as the obvious other vessels - as long as it does that for me I am going to be happy; if it doesn't I am going to after some people in here for serious beers!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[LadyInBed]

Re: inshore passages and reefs

Give me a good old fashioned Crows Nest any day! /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[duncan]

Re: inshore passages and reefs

absolutely.....it's just the fog, bad visibilty and the ****ards that run you down that seem to make it an issue!/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>