Which pocket cruiser to look for?

I'm biased because I've had an Ian Proctor designed Pirate since 2003 and love it to bits.
Not the ideal boat to launch on a slip as she's got a deep ( nearly 4 ft! ) fin keel; though they also came with swing keels. However, easy to tow behind a medium sized car; boat 660kg, trailer 330kg. When I'm using mine she lives on a mooring on Poole Harbour, and when I'm not, in a barn on a local farm ( on her trailer obviously )
I've done a lot of miles in her, including a round ( most of ) the UK mainland trip four years ago; this included some fairly grown up stuff; eg passages round Landsend , Padstow to Milford Haven , across the Irish Sea etc ; all of which she took in her stride.
Accomodation in a little boat is never going to be palatial, but on the above trip I lived on her for three months without any great suffering. Far more comfortable than a bivvi on a hilltop somewhere! ( been there done that ! )
I think the previous suggestions about not being too picky about specific types of boats are dead right, I would try and pick something thats satisfying to sail and that you can do stuff in.
I did eventually buy a bigger boat ( 24 footer which still feels huge !! ) with the idea of going on more offshore trips and to be less governed by weather; but I've still got the little boat, and , when the big boat is ashore ( like now ) I enjoy sailing her. In fact this year's " cruise " will be in the Pirate at the end of this month.
I've put up a couple of videos to show what fun you can have in a little pocket cruiser bought for not many pounds; shes evolved a bit over the years; new sails, non slip paint on the coachroof and other stuff
One of the films is a compilation put on Youtube a while ago and the other shows sailing done in the last month or so - I make no claims to be any good at filming, and if you don't like the music on one or the wind noise on the other turn the sound off!

qwzx111.blogspot.co.uk
 
The potters are out of my budget Dylan, Shaun, your wee boat sounds great, but I looked at the price of getting cushions and it was the price of a boat!,
Phil, thanks, that's the kind of info that's dead useful, especially of you circumnavigated with it, the pirate sounds like a really good boat to look for. I'm reading thro your blog at the moment with interest.
 
Manta 19 is another boat to consider. It has a stub keel and centreboard so dries out fine and trails easily. They are seaworthy little craft too i have been on one in F6/7 and it behaved superbly.
 
steve yates said:
Good point about the car Dave, I have a towing weight of 1000kg, that's one of the factors that had me looking at the the little peers and the like. I was getting carried away with myself perhaps! :) need to keep the overall weight in mind.
Click to expand...
Even the Pirate mentioned is going to bust the budget on your towing limit. A week away with all your stuff and some fuel etc etc is going to go over the limit. Put it in the car and your crew as well and your own personal gear and the whole outfit could be over the limit (and a bit precarious to drive).
Maybe plan on changing your towcar as well?

I had a Foxcub which is a lovely boat to sail, but the fin keel would be a sod to launch/recover. They do a bilge keel version. A friend had one which he trailed to Spain and back.
I've had a Seahawk 17 which sails much better than you would imagine. Perhaps a bit dinghy-like for passages. They come in 2 and 4 berth versions and have a roomy cockpit. Very easy to launch/recover and step the mast. I trail/sailed mine from home for a while.
(The Pedro is the same hull with no centreplate and a lower aspect rig, which probably accounts for the poor sailing performance.)
I sold that with an excellent trailer and good 4 stroke outboard for about £1500.

Seahawk 17


Recovery is easy

​
 
I don't fancy the restricted vision of the sailfish to be honest jumble duck, sounds like an accident waiting to happen for me:) the Seahawks is definitely a good contender lakessailor, but I do want a boat capable of doing a passage sometimes, but I'm sure it could..
 
Hi Dave,

Like the starter of this thread I looked around for a sailing boat. Living on the Isle of Wight you really have to!

I'd like to know how your experiences sailing your Frolic 18 as its possible you may have a third owner to add to your list :-) Any tips, tricks or traps you've learnt over the time you've owned yours would be interesting to hear about.

Cheers
 
WightWay said:
Hi Dave,

Like the starter of this thread I looked around for a sailing boat. Living on the Isle of Wight you really have to!

I'd like to know how your experiences sailing your Frolic 18 as its possible you may have a third owner to add to your list :-) Any tips, tricks or traps you've learnt over the time you've owned yours would be interesting to hear about.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Hi I take it there's a Frolic for sale down your way then? Is it the lifting keel version or the bilge keel version, they made both. I believe there was even an option to have a small inboard engine.

Mine is the lifting keel version and a 4HP outboard on the transom.

We only ever day sail. In spite of the best intentions we have never been away over night, mainly because my daughter has not taken to sailing so we are restricted on time if we sail without her.

As this is the only boat we have ever owned, I don't have much to compare it with. I have sailed on a few other boats, all larger, sometimes much larger, and compared to the bigger boats the Frolic is a bit more tender. but others have sailed on my Frolic with me and tell me for it's size it's very stiff so it's all about expectations.

I did a lot of upgrading when we first got her, like adding sliders to the main sail and running the main halyard back to the cockpit, the first few trips out having to feed the bolt rope into the mast was just too fiddly. Likewise I fitted roller furling to the jib to make life easier. But with a second hand boat of this age it might already be set up perfectly or it may be in need of some upgrading.

do you have any pictures of the one you are looking at?

EDIT:

Is it this one? http://www.westwateryachtsales.com/brokerage-boats/brokerage-boat-details/?BoatID=4302899

That's the bilge keel version. Interior is pretty much the same as mine except ours being the lifting keel version has a permanent keel box in the cabin with a fold down table on top of it. We only have a curtain over the heads cupboard, I doubt you would shut that door while on the throne.

The price looks a bit steep, almost double what we paid, but it does have new sails and fresh upholstery.

Interesting the hull is red. Ours is painted white but where there are a dew scratches it looks red underneath so possibly red gel coat originally?

Also ours doesn't have the hatch above the front vee berth.

One of the unique things about the Frolic 18 is the quarter berths don't go under the cockpit, instead they go under the raised vee berth. this means the two cockpit lockers are vast.
 
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Hi

Thanks for the reply.

That is the boat in question. If the price is a bit steep did yours include a trailer? This does & sails are 2011 vintage so relatively new.

Gotta go to work now so longer reply later.

Cheers
 
I paid £1800 for mine with a trailer and nearly new 4Hp Mariner outboard.

To be fair the trailer for mine was pretty ropey. It had no mudgards, 2 rotten tyres, 2 dud wheel bearings and some rust around the winch post. It was also very badly set up with the weight distribution all wrong. The tow home from the broker was "interesting"

It's all sorted now. A bit of re jigging to get the weight distribution right, bearings and tyres replaced, a bit of welding and it's okay now and tows well.

My trailer for the lifting keel version is a lot more complicated. The boat sits on a number of rollers supporting the weight either side of the keel box and at other points along the keel, then outrigger rollers to stop it tipping over. For the bilge keel version the trailer is a lot simpler, it just sits on it's keels. I also modified my trailer to allow the keel to be lowered on the trailer, something else you won't have to do with that one.

The sails on mine are also a bit tired, I could really do with a new set but finances are a bit tight at the moment.

Go and have a look and then start haggling over the price.
 
I was an early contributer to this thread - extolling the virtues of the Ian Procter designed Pirate. Below is a link to my sailing blog recounting a week spent on my Pirate. I've titled the post " Pint sized Pirate Adventures" which I think says it all; ie this is the sort of thing you can do in a pocket cruiser ; taking into account the boat's and one's own limitations. Not epic, probably a little too alcocentric , and not without its cockups!


qwzx111.blogspot.co.uk
 
Dunno if it's been said before, but Peter Poland has done several articles in PBO on pocket cruisers, with going-rate prices (albeit probably out of date). May be worth giving the good people at the mag a call...?
 
armchairsailor said:
Dunno if it's been said before, but Peter Poland has done several articles in PBO on pocket cruisers, with going-rate prices (albeit probably out of date). May be worth giving the good people at the mag a call...?
Click to expand...

Peter Poland - who I was fortunate enough to sail with, a nice guy - was the Sales Manager on the early ( and to my mind best ) Hunters such as the 490, Squib, Tracer, 19, Europa & 701 and did an article for PBO a few months ago about their designer, Oliver Lee ( who also designed the Anderson 22, Achilles 24 and others ).

There is a site dedicated to Oliver Lee here, if one goes to the dark blue upper toolbar and clicks on ' community ' .

Active owner's associations for the Hunter 19 / Europa and the Anderson, see below.

Most people reckon Oliver Lee's designs are a delight to sail, but don't take my word for it, ask RumRun, Jumbleduck and Little Rascal here for a start ! :)
 
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