Which pocket cruiser to look for?

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steve yates

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Hi, I'm new to here, found quite a few threads via Google while looking for boats for sale, which were helpful.

I'm looking for a small boat to go dinghy cruising, without the hassle of camping in a dinghy :)

I'm new to sailing, and just learning, but a long time proficient mountaineer and have done a lot of white water kayaking, on rivers.. I've just done a comp crew course and that was great, and I have got a little graduate dinghy on derwentwater ( I live in Keswick, the lakes) to teach myself how to sail in. ( did an rya course when I was 12, so a longgg time ago, and now irrelevant). Sailing her I've realised she is too small to sleep inboard, and doesn't have enough storage to carry all the kit for camping ashore and going away for a week. I'll probably sell her at end of the summer.

I'm not really interested in sailing around on a lake though, I want a boat to travel and explore in. My initial plans are for something small and cheap, so I can afford to break and fix it when I **** up.

Once I can handle the sails and stay upright, I want to explore the coast, sailing up to the Solway, over to Isle of Man and Ireland and around the firth of Clyde and the inner Hebrides.

I would like something easy to trail, rig and launch/recover, singlehanded. I can get a mooring in maryport, but want the freedom of using the car to switch cruising grounds utterly within 12 hours.

I'm thinking drop keel rather than small bilge, as I might want to beach her then send her back out to anchor, while taking another ashore.

I will be be sleeping in her, and sometimes a mate, or two, and cooking in her, sometimes for a week or more, so it might be handy to have a cockpit big enough to sleep in too, or rig a boat tent on for extra space.

My research has led me to think I want to look for something like a pirate express, skipper 17, seahawk, star trekka, sandpiper, Hunter 490 , westerly nimrod or silhouette. Or going a bit bigger, prelude, hunter Europa,caprice, or seawych, tho I'm worried I may be getting into boats that can travel on a trailer, once or twice a season, as opposed to boats you can trail around everywhere and anywhere.

Multi day trips and sleeping aboard are the main aim. Does anyone have any practical experience of any of these? Their pros and cons, what they are like to sail, room in the cockpit, and the cabin, known faults or bad habits? Particular strengths over other marques? Or any others I should consider but have missed?

My budget is around a grand, it could be stretched to 2.5 but really I'm thinking I'll leave that for my next boat, I'd be more inclined to spend less cos there is more left to go sailing then. But, I don't really want a fixer up, I'm **** at DIY and want to use my free time to sail, not paint. At the same time, I'm not expecting a pristine example on my budget.

Sorry for the long post, but didn't want to waste your time by not giving you as much info upfront, thanks.
Steve
 
Sounds like a great plan. Your 1k budget will mostly go towards a decent trailer and outboard- don't skimp on either of these.
By the way, have you read Shane Acton?
 
I wouldn't get hung up looking for a particular boat. That just limits your choice.

I would just go and look at everything within your price range within a reasonable distance from where you live. That's how we ended up with a Frolic 18 which you won't have heard of (I have only found 2 other owners so far) but it was for sale at a local broker complete with trailer and O/B and (nearly) ready to sail.

As a lifting keel owner I would be very wary about drying out on a beach you have not first looked at at low water. You really don't want to settle down and find where you have parked is a jagged bit of rock sticking out of what otherwise looks like a lovely beach. I think a bilge keeler is more forgiving in that respect.

A guy at our club sails a little Shipmate. Available as a dayboat or a pocket cruiser version.
 
The thing with boats of this size (indeed at any size) is that length is a poor guide to capability. Generally the more the accommodation the lesser the sail performance. Your list of possibles spans the spectrum from sedate cruisers to sharp racing derived boats. You need to decide where you want to be on that spectrum and this will reduce the size of your shortlist. However as Pro Dave says at this end of the market you need to keep an open mind as your choice will be limited by what is available in your locality, and more importantly is ready to tow/launch/sail without any further big expenditure.
 
Appreciate what you have said about dinghies and camping. However there are dinghies and dinghies. Wayfarers can be luxurious and do have masses of storage space fo carrying gear. Plenty have done your kind of exploring. Go to the UKWA website. Alternatively the DCA (Dinghy Cruising association) website. Otherwise a Westerly Nomad is up your street. The point is owning and towing a Wayfarer is easy and not much hassle compared to the heavier boats you are talking about (and they are more fun to sail!). Providing you are camping ashore 3 adults in a Wayfarer no problem.
 
There's quite a lot of truth in the saying "the largest trailer sailer yacht is a Wayfarer", but all the boats on your list have their merits. The Hunter Europa will be the most seaworthy and probably the most satisfying to sail, but you will need to anchor off beaches and you'll soon be looking for a crane lift out because pulling it out on the slipway is a pain. The smaller centreboarders you've listed will be more like a dinghy to sail and easier to recover. None will be comfortable to live on but if you compare the accommodation to a small tent rather than a caravan you will be on the right lines.
 
I'd suggest a Wayfarer with a tent, but they cost loads more than £1k. You can pick up a small yacht for that, but launching and recovering one is not a one person job. How about a Finn and camping ashore?
 
steve yates said:
My research has led me to think I want to look for something like a pirate express, skipper 17, seahawk, star trekka, sandpiper, Hunter 490 , westerly nimrod or silhouette. Or going a bit bigger, prelude, hunter Europa,caprice, or seawych, tho I'm worried I may be getting into boats that can travel on a trailer, once or twice a season, as opposed to boats you can trail around everywhere and anywhere.
Click to expand...

The Hunter 490 is great (I have one) but has a very tiny cabin indeed and is overall a very small boat. The Hunter 19/Europa has lots more room, and is what I'd choose - from the Hunter range - in your case. There was a lift keel version of the 19, but not many made and I don't know if there were lift keel Europas. A lifting-keel Westerly Jouster will take you anywhere, but you are definitely getting into "trailerable" as opposed to "trailer-sailor" territory by then, as with the other bigger ones you mention.

In general, though, I'd echo what others have said and advise not worrying too much about the exact model. Keep an eye on ebay, Gumtree and local notice boards for cheap boats and you'll find something. PM me if you want to play on a 490 in SW Scotland!
 
I would suggest Wayfarers range in price considerably and there are lots of them and many will have a road trailer. I think £1200 might get you something quite acceptable. If you are lucky £800. Yes a purpose made official boat tent could set you back but making your own is pretty easy, possibly modifying a cheapo Millets/Halfords type and if you are shore camping then you probably already have a tent. Best boat bed I used on the Wayfarer was simply to put boards accross the bench seats and inflated two lilos. Different versions have different thwart heights. The point I am making is you have as much space as a pocket cruiser, possibly more.
 
JumbleDuck said:
The Hunter 490 is great (I have one) but has a very tiny cabin indeed and is overall a very small boat. The Hunter 19/Europa has lots more room, and is what I'd choose - from the Hunter range - in your case. There was a lift keel version of the 19, but not many made and I don't know if there were lift keel Europas. A lifting-keel Westerly Jouster will take you anywhere, but you are definitely getting into "trailerable" as opposed to "trailer-sailor" territory by then, as with the other bigger ones you mention.

In general, though, I'd echo what others have said and advise not worrying too much about the exact model. Keep an eye on ebay, Gumtree and local notice boards for cheap boats and you'll find something. PM me if you want to play on a 490 in SW Scotland!
Click to expand...
I guess the thing I am high lighting is you are going into trailer sailers, and if you research it here you will find it is often not the dream compromise it appears to be.
 
Bollocks, there is some weird stuff going on with this forum software! I'll summarise what I lost; dave, re just looking at boats in budget nearby, great advice, other dave, I definitely don't want a wayfarer to cruise in, I want a little cruiser. I can't be doing with the constant packing to go away. Small cabins I can live with, far more space than a bivi half way up a mountain.

I'm beginning to think mooring her is the way forward, just trail a few times a year for different cruising grounds. I want to get out whenever I have no work on, even micro cruisers might be hard to launch and recover on your own, I'd struggle a lot with a wayfarer, as my back is a bit weak from a climbing injury.

The europa sounds like my kind of boat :) Anyone heard of a dodnor marine star trekka? there's one nearby, and also a pedro and trailer for 750, but I'm sure I read on here that's a pig of a boat in a sea?

The play on the 490 is a lovely offer, I'll pm you if I can get over that way sometime, see if your around, thanks.

thanks guys.
 
I wanted much the same and considered most of the ones you suggest and went to look at some. One question I always asked was why are you selling. The answer came back several times as "Buying/bought a Jaguar 22"

So I went and bought a Jaguar 22. Cruised the Solent for shakedown, Troon to Stornoway and back one year, then down to the Adriatic next summer for Pula to Albania and back.

I could raise the mast, launch and recover it BY myself [ JUST !]
 
Recommend a Hunter Medina which has a lifting keel, we used to have one and they are a fine boat. Sleeps 4 and can be launched and recovered from a trailer on a trolley system similar to that used by Dylan on his similarly useful Hunter Liberty.
Both of which can be parked on the beach like a dinghy, albeit you won't be able to move them when the tide goes out which you can with a wayfarer!
Here's on just in the top limit of the OPs budget

http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/display.phtml?aid=412072
 
steve yates said:
, I definitely don't want a wayfarer to cruise in, I want a little cruiser. .
Click to expand...
No problem with that, I was basing it on my prejudices. If I did not have a family I would not have a yacht, I love my Wayfarer. However I was following on from Kelpie's comments on trailers, outboard costs and budgets. Perhaps what has also not been mentioned is the trailing vehicle . Anything bigger than the Wayfarer and I am a lot less happy towing behind a family car, although I know some people are. If I already drove a good chunky towing vehicle and had the space to store a bigger boat at home to work on I would have a different approach and trailer sailers become viable, particular if used for long weekends or longer rather than overnighters.
BTW and not for Steve, but there is no reason to feel Wayfarers need manhandling like smaller dinghies if you are single handing. Use the car or winches or ropes to manoever. They are heavy if you don't :). So are pocket cruisers.
 
Good point about the car Dave, I have a towing weight of 1000kg, that's one of the factors that had me looking at the the little peers and the like. I was getting carried away with myself perhaps! :) need to keep the overall weight in mind.
 
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