gerrykennedy
New member
I am changing up from an Irish made yacht called a Club Shamrock which is a great racer cruiser. I have been recommended the Legend or Hanse. What's the opinions about these?
Gerry
Gerry
Which one to buy Legend 310 or Hanse 311?
- Thread starter gerrykennedy
- Start date
wizard
Well-known member
I bought a Hanse 312 last April. Best performing yacht I have ever sailed to date. Pre and after sales has been excellent.
Best advice is to look up the specs for both, then test sail both. Then make up your mind.
Geoff
Best advice is to look up the specs for both, then test sail both. Then make up your mind.
Geoff
DepSol
New member
Was on a Legend 33 recently I dont sail but from a cruisers point of view I thought it was good as it had good accomodation great galley and comfortable seating area. Looked good going through the waves too.
But dont take my opinion on the sailing bit as I knw nowt.
But dont take my opinion on the sailing bit as I knw nowt.
BlueMan
New member
No contest...it has to be the Hanse. I had a Legend for 6 years and have just bought a Hanse 312.
Look very carefully at the build quality of both and you'll know what to do! The Hanse will sail rings around it too, just as Geoff said.
Look very carefully at the build quality of both and you'll know what to do! The Hanse will sail rings around it too, just as Geoff said.
Birdseye
Well-known member
On the Hanse Owners web site, there were some comment about alleged early osmosis in a 30 footer though whether this was correct I do not know since Hanse had not responded to the owner. When I examined the Hanse I was put off by the very plasticky design.
Cant say I was taken by the Legend either - very tender according to one owner. Suggest you talk to some brokers about second hand legend prices.
Both boats have a reputation for sailing reasonably well, though the Legend test report on the 35 footer damned with faint praise. In the end, I suppose you can sum up both boats by saying you get what you pay for.
Personally, I would go for the Ben Jan alternative because they usually sail well and are reasonably well made. And no, I dont own a BenJan.
Cant say I was taken by the Legend either - very tender according to one owner. Suggest you talk to some brokers about second hand legend prices.
Both boats have a reputation for sailing reasonably well, though the Legend test report on the 35 footer damned with faint praise. In the end, I suppose you can sum up both boats by saying you get what you pay for.
Personally, I would go for the Ben Jan alternative because they usually sail well and are reasonably well made. And no, I dont own a BenJan.
BlueMan
New member
Mmmm, well, I am not sure how a Hanse is classed as plasticky but a Jen/Ben/Bav isn't! I don't really think there is much in it regarding build quality from my research at the last few boat shows although we could discuss production methods for quite some time.
I can personally vouch for early years Osmosis on my Legend, but it was peeled and epoxied under warranty. If you have been looking at the Hanse website then it would only be true and honest for you to report that the owner involved confirmed recently that they were very satisfied with the (undisclosed) resolution agreed with Hanse.
I have been told (but will not name names) of early years or even pre-launch(!) Osmosis in one brand of AWB mentioned above, and that was by the guy who had to fix it! Even storing a boat ashore for a while with wet carpeted cradle pads has caused that.
As always the best advice is to go and look at new and used examples (and sail them) yourself and see what you think. In fact you can get a good head start by visiting a major boat show. You would be shocked by some of the build quality if you knew where to look and that is on show boats. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Good luck!
I can personally vouch for early years Osmosis on my Legend, but it was peeled and epoxied under warranty. If you have been looking at the Hanse website then it would only be true and honest for you to report that the owner involved confirmed recently that they were very satisfied with the (undisclosed) resolution agreed with Hanse.
I have been told (but will not name names) of early years or even pre-launch(!) Osmosis in one brand of AWB mentioned above, and that was by the guy who had to fix it! Even storing a boat ashore for a while with wet carpeted cradle pads has caused that.
As always the best advice is to go and look at new and used examples (and sail them) yourself and see what you think. In fact you can get a good head start by visiting a major boat show. You would be shocked by some of the build quality if you knew where to look and that is on show boats. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Good luck!
Birdseye
Well-known member
Fair comment - I havent looked at the Hanse web site since I decided against one. Mind you, any early osmosis ought to be a basis for complete rejection of the boat in my view. Its just not acceptable when we know as much as we do about the problem and when we have isophalic and vinyl and even epoxy resins which would minimise the risk. I'm surprised you are happy with the treatment of your hull, but its your decision of course.
I disagree about the plasticky bit - seems to me that the French boats are quite a bit better, but again that must be a matter of opinion.
Boating journalists have to measure their words carefully in boat tests but you can still get a good view of what they feel if you read carefully and expect understatement. So my recommendation would be to read a test of a Legend and of a Hanse and then compare with a BenJan. The Legend 35ft test report was really quite critical
I disagree about the plasticky bit - seems to me that the French boats are quite a bit better, but again that must be a matter of opinion.
Boating journalists have to measure their words carefully in boat tests but you can still get a good view of what they feel if you read carefully and expect understatement. So my recommendation would be to read a test of a Legend and of a Hanse and then compare with a BenJan. The Legend 35ft test report was really quite critical
AlexL
Member
Actually I;m not sure a great deal is known about osmosis. A great deal is certainly assumed, and from my reading and discussions with a few people I get the feeling that Osmosis and its various treatments have become rather like rising damp with properties. i.e any vaguely similar problem, even badly applied paint in some circumstances, is instantly diagnosed, and the relevent treatment sold to the owner.
I know that with properties that, after assuming that alot was known about rising damp and a thriving damp course injection industry arising from the ignorance of the general public, now it is realised that often the problem is something else and the suposed solution actually makes matters worse.
Having said that,, I know nothing of the particular case you mentioned above, however any boat builder can make a mistake - but i submit that the productionised yards such as hanse, ben jen bav etc are alot less likely to do so than some others.
I personally am very pleased with my new hanse, although it has not yet been launched I have given it a thorough once over and have not found any snags, which is more than I can say about some other "show" boats i've looked at.
As far as reading the magazine reports goes - I couldn't agree more, often one has to read between the lines, however the report on the hanse 371 in PBO last year does not need a great deal of reading between the lines, it waxes lyrical about the abilities and the quality of the boat, and I saved a considerable sum compared to the equivalent 37' Ben / Jen.
I know that with properties that, after assuming that alot was known about rising damp and a thriving damp course injection industry arising from the ignorance of the general public, now it is realised that often the problem is something else and the suposed solution actually makes matters worse.
Having said that,, I know nothing of the particular case you mentioned above, however any boat builder can make a mistake - but i submit that the productionised yards such as hanse, ben jen bav etc are alot less likely to do so than some others.
I personally am very pleased with my new hanse, although it has not yet been launched I have given it a thorough once over and have not found any snags, which is more than I can say about some other "show" boats i've looked at.
As far as reading the magazine reports goes - I couldn't agree more, often one has to read between the lines, however the report on the hanse 371 in PBO last year does not need a great deal of reading between the lines, it waxes lyrical about the abilities and the quality of the boat, and I saved a considerable sum compared to the equivalent 37' Ben / Jen.
billmacfarlane
Active member
Looks like it's space versus pace. The Legend has it on space but I'd guess the Hanse's performance would be light years ahead. It all depends on what you want. And don't take my word for it. Try them both yourself.
samuel
New member
I have had a Hanse 315 since July 2003. Have never regretted it for one moment. I looked ( with the wife) at lots of 31 footers & to me the Hanse had it by miles. This year we had 20 weeks sailing from East coast to west France plus 5 weeks in the Dutch canals.. I have sailed over 700 miles single handed from west France & had no difficulty whatsoever.
If you asked me what I do not like about the Hanse it is
1) The poorly cut jib ( I had to have it recut & later purchased a very heavy new jib for heavy weather) however I really like the self taking arrangement & also have a genoa but have only used it once.
2) A kink in the water hose on the engine intake ( rectified with longer hose)
3) The very heavy steering. This item will really decide if you have one or not. I spoiled the boat by not having a wheel steering. I have been told by a German owner that the designer has designed an alternative rudder with better balance as an optional extra. The wife cannot helm in heavy weather for more than half an hour. That being said I began to get used to the boat at the end of last season & found that it was my poor helming technique that could be at fault. My last boat , a long keeler, needed the helm waggled about all the time. This Hanse will hold a course if you do not move the tiller & so it may be that the weight is not an issue if I change the way I steer.
4) The boom seems a little light & I would like a heavier construction. I have not noticed it flex but if you compare the section to other boats it does seem thin. I broke the kicking strap on the second day as well as the jib shackle. For some reason there are some silly thin shackles supplied which all broke. I did change the one on the backstay immediately as that seems dangerous. That being said the fittings are all in the correct place & winches etc all OK.
As a note I spoke to the German owner for a long while & he says a group of owners in his club all agree that there is a feathering prop that is far better than any other & does not spoil the handling. I forget which one but I suggest you ask Hanse. He seemed to think it was an important accessory. I think it was a Volvo alternative but am not sure.
If you ask what I like about it, then everything. I have been single handed in F8 a couple of times & crewed with 3 of us in F9 from Imuiden to Lowestoft. Never really worried although heaving to is nowhere as good as my old long keeler. That said I have never been actually forced to heave to yet. Kept sailing even in the F9. It is a very dry boat which the wife appreciates.
I would recommend the third reef in the main I have just had one put in as in F 9 it is really too much to hold the main with only 2 reefs.
As to performance, it is a sailors boat. You have to learn how to sail it. The first trip to Ostend ( Had it 2 weeks) with a crew, we had F7 on the nose coming back & made 13 miles in 6 hours. A Contessa 32 sailed up to us , went round us & sailed off again. The original jib was useless & a recut plus some practice sailing the boat & the Contessa would have the roles reversed.
Since then I have had some fairly fast passages most of them to windward. I can get 6 Knots to windward quite easy & if the water is not too rough then 6.5 can be maintained for a while. The steering gets tiring so it gets hard work keeping up the speed. The wife & I actually held 6.8 Knots to windward in dead flat water coming up to Benodet for about 4 miles. We could not quite get 7 Knots & still keep hard on the wind.
In light weather the jib is small the Genoa makes a big difference. The engine is great & we had no probs motoring against rough seas. We motored from breskens to Amsterdam via the canals & manouverability was great.
I find lee cloths are essential as no modern boat seems to allow for sleeping under way. the galley is OK for the size of boat. The chart table just about takes my Yoeman plotter. The electrics cupboard is good but more room for electrics would be good.. The berths are all long I am 6 ft
6ins tall & can sleep OK. The anchor well is good, I carry 2 CQRs of 15KGs one with 35 M of chain, No problem anchoring but there is no proper allowance for fitting an anchor windlass.
If you need one get it put in when you buy the boat.
The cockpit is good for racing but poor for protection. I have the mainsheet track which is essential on this boat & it does restrict movement. I have made it worse by putting the liferaft just below it. In bad weather one cannot duck down out of the wind as I could in the last boat.
Storage is excellent & we even carried 2 bikes to France plus all the gear for 20 weeks including loads of tools & spares ( None of which were needed).
I reckon the Hanse is great I next year we are going to get a spinnaker , have it rated & give it a thrashing on the racing circuit. If I can master the helm we should do well.
If you asked me what I do not like about the Hanse it is
1) The poorly cut jib ( I had to have it recut & later purchased a very heavy new jib for heavy weather) however I really like the self taking arrangement & also have a genoa but have only used it once.
2) A kink in the water hose on the engine intake ( rectified with longer hose)
3) The very heavy steering. This item will really decide if you have one or not. I spoiled the boat by not having a wheel steering. I have been told by a German owner that the designer has designed an alternative rudder with better balance as an optional extra. The wife cannot helm in heavy weather for more than half an hour. That being said I began to get used to the boat at the end of last season & found that it was my poor helming technique that could be at fault. My last boat , a long keeler, needed the helm waggled about all the time. This Hanse will hold a course if you do not move the tiller & so it may be that the weight is not an issue if I change the way I steer.
4) The boom seems a little light & I would like a heavier construction. I have not noticed it flex but if you compare the section to other boats it does seem thin. I broke the kicking strap on the second day as well as the jib shackle. For some reason there are some silly thin shackles supplied which all broke. I did change the one on the backstay immediately as that seems dangerous. That being said the fittings are all in the correct place & winches etc all OK.
As a note I spoke to the German owner for a long while & he says a group of owners in his club all agree that there is a feathering prop that is far better than any other & does not spoil the handling. I forget which one but I suggest you ask Hanse. He seemed to think it was an important accessory. I think it was a Volvo alternative but am not sure.
If you ask what I like about it, then everything. I have been single handed in F8 a couple of times & crewed with 3 of us in F9 from Imuiden to Lowestoft. Never really worried although heaving to is nowhere as good as my old long keeler. That said I have never been actually forced to heave to yet. Kept sailing even in the F9. It is a very dry boat which the wife appreciates.
I would recommend the third reef in the main I have just had one put in as in F 9 it is really too much to hold the main with only 2 reefs.
As to performance, it is a sailors boat. You have to learn how to sail it. The first trip to Ostend ( Had it 2 weeks) with a crew, we had F7 on the nose coming back & made 13 miles in 6 hours. A Contessa 32 sailed up to us , went round us & sailed off again. The original jib was useless & a recut plus some practice sailing the boat & the Contessa would have the roles reversed.
Since then I have had some fairly fast passages most of them to windward. I can get 6 Knots to windward quite easy & if the water is not too rough then 6.5 can be maintained for a while. The steering gets tiring so it gets hard work keeping up the speed. The wife & I actually held 6.8 Knots to windward in dead flat water coming up to Benodet for about 4 miles. We could not quite get 7 Knots & still keep hard on the wind.
In light weather the jib is small the Genoa makes a big difference. The engine is great & we had no probs motoring against rough seas. We motored from breskens to Amsterdam via the canals & manouverability was great.
I find lee cloths are essential as no modern boat seems to allow for sleeping under way. the galley is OK for the size of boat. The chart table just about takes my Yoeman plotter. The electrics cupboard is good but more room for electrics would be good.. The berths are all long I am 6 ft
6ins tall & can sleep OK. The anchor well is good, I carry 2 CQRs of 15KGs one with 35 M of chain, No problem anchoring but there is no proper allowance for fitting an anchor windlass.
If you need one get it put in when you buy the boat.
The cockpit is good for racing but poor for protection. I have the mainsheet track which is essential on this boat & it does restrict movement. I have made it worse by putting the liferaft just below it. In bad weather one cannot duck down out of the wind as I could in the last boat.
Storage is excellent & we even carried 2 bikes to France plus all the gear for 20 weeks including loads of tools & spares ( None of which were needed).
I reckon the Hanse is great I next year we are going to get a spinnaker , have it rated & give it a thrashing on the racing circuit. If I can master the helm we should do well.
samuel
New member
I have had a Hanse 315 since July 2003. Have never regretted it for one moment. I looked ( with the wife) at lots of 31 footers & to me the Hanse had it by miles. This year we had 20 weeks sailing from East coast to west France plus 5 weeks in the Dutch canals.. I have sailed over 700 miles single handed from west France & had no difficulty whatsoever.
If you asked me what I do not like about the Hanse it is
1) The poorly cut jib ( I had to have it recut & later purchased a very heavy new jib for heavy weather) however I really like the self taking arrangement & also have a genoa but have only used it once.
2) A kink in the water hose on the engine intake ( rectified with longer hose)
3) The very heavy steering. This item will really decide if you have one or not. I spoiled the boat by not having a wheel steering. I have been told by a German owner that the designer has designed an alternative rudder with better balance as an optional extra. The wife cannot helm in heavy weather for more than half an hour. That being said I began to get used to the boat at the end of last season & found that it was my poor helming technique that could be at fault. My last boat , a long keeler, needed the helm waggled about all the time. This Hanse will hold a course if you do not move the tiller & so it may be that the weight is not an issue if I change the way I steer.
4) The boom seems a little light & I would like a heavier construction. I have not noticed it flex but if you compare the section to other boats it does seem thin. I broke the kicking strap on the second day as well as the jib shackle. For some reason there are some silly thin shackles supplied which all broke. I did change the one on the backstay immediately as that seems dangerous. That being said the fittings are all in the correct place & winches etc all OK.
As a note I spoke to the German owner for a long while & he says a group of owners in his club all agree that there is a feathering prop that is far better than any other & does not spoil the handling. I forget which one but I suggest you ask Hanse. He seemed to think it was an important accessory. I think it was a Volvo alternative but am not sure.
If you ask what I like about it, then everything. I have been single handed in F8 a couple of times & crewed with 3 of us in F9 from Imuiden to Lowestoft. Never really worried although heaving to is nowhere as good as my old long keeler. That said I have never been actually forced to heave to yet. Kept sailing even in the F9. It is a very dry boat which the wife appreciates.
I would recommend the third reef in the main I have just had one put in as in F 9 it is really too much to hold the main with only 2 reefs.
As to performance, it is a sailors boat. You have to learn how to sail it. The first trip to Ostend ( Had it 2 weeks) with a crew, we had F7 on the nose coming back & made 13 miles in 6 hours. A Contessa 32 sailed up to us , went round us & sailed off again. The original jib was useless & a recut plus some practice sailing the boat & the Contessa would have the roles reversed.
Since then I have had some fairly fast passages most of them to windward. I can get 6 Knots to windward quite easy & if the water is not too rough then 6.5 can be maintained for a while. The steering gets tiring so it gets hard work keeping up the speed. The wife & I actually held 6.8 Knots to windward in dead flat water coming up to Benodet for about 4 miles. We could not quite get 7 Knots & still keep hard on the wind.
In light weather the jib is small the Genoa makes a big difference. The engine is great & we had no probs motoring against rough seas. We motored from breskens to Amsterdam via the canals & manouverability was great.
I find lee cloths are essential as no modern boat seems to allow for sleeping under way. the galley is OK for the size of boat. The chart table just about takes my Yoeman plotter. The electrics cupboard is good but more room for electrics would be good.. The berths are all long I am 6 ft
6ins tall & can sleep OK. The anchor well is good, I carry 2 CQRs of 15KGs one with 35 M of chain, No problem anchoring but there is no proper allowance for fitting an anchor windlass.
If you need one get it put in when you buy the boat.
The cockpit is good for racing but poor for protection. I have the mainsheet track which is essential on this boat & it does restrict movement. I have made it worse by putting the liferaft just below it. In bad weather one cannot duck down out of the wind as I could in the last boat.
Storage is excellent & we even carried 2 bikes to France plus all the gear for 20 weeks including loads of tools & spares ( None of which were needed).
I reckon the Hanse is great I next year we are going to get a spinnaker , have it rated & give it a thrashing on the racing circuit. If I can master the helm we should do well.
If you asked me what I do not like about the Hanse it is
1) The poorly cut jib ( I had to have it recut & later purchased a very heavy new jib for heavy weather) however I really like the self taking arrangement & also have a genoa but have only used it once.
2) A kink in the water hose on the engine intake ( rectified with longer hose)
3) The very heavy steering. This item will really decide if you have one or not. I spoiled the boat by not having a wheel steering. I have been told by a German owner that the designer has designed an alternative rudder with better balance as an optional extra. The wife cannot helm in heavy weather for more than half an hour. That being said I began to get used to the boat at the end of last season & found that it was my poor helming technique that could be at fault. My last boat , a long keeler, needed the helm waggled about all the time. This Hanse will hold a course if you do not move the tiller & so it may be that the weight is not an issue if I change the way I steer.
4) The boom seems a little light & I would like a heavier construction. I have not noticed it flex but if you compare the section to other boats it does seem thin. I broke the kicking strap on the second day as well as the jib shackle. For some reason there are some silly thin shackles supplied which all broke. I did change the one on the backstay immediately as that seems dangerous. That being said the fittings are all in the correct place & winches etc all OK.
As a note I spoke to the German owner for a long while & he says a group of owners in his club all agree that there is a feathering prop that is far better than any other & does not spoil the handling. I forget which one but I suggest you ask Hanse. He seemed to think it was an important accessory. I think it was a Volvo alternative but am not sure.
If you ask what I like about it, then everything. I have been single handed in F8 a couple of times & crewed with 3 of us in F9 from Imuiden to Lowestoft. Never really worried although heaving to is nowhere as good as my old long keeler. That said I have never been actually forced to heave to yet. Kept sailing even in the F9. It is a very dry boat which the wife appreciates.
I would recommend the third reef in the main I have just had one put in as in F 9 it is really too much to hold the main with only 2 reefs.
As to performance, it is a sailors boat. You have to learn how to sail it. The first trip to Ostend ( Had it 2 weeks) with a crew, we had F7 on the nose coming back & made 13 miles in 6 hours. A Contessa 32 sailed up to us , went round us & sailed off again. The original jib was useless & a recut plus some practice sailing the boat & the Contessa would have the roles reversed.
Since then I have had some fairly fast passages most of them to windward. I can get 6 Knots to windward quite easy & if the water is not too rough then 6.5 can be maintained for a while. The steering gets tiring so it gets hard work keeping up the speed. The wife & I actually held 6.8 Knots to windward in dead flat water coming up to Benodet for about 4 miles. We could not quite get 7 Knots & still keep hard on the wind.
In light weather the jib is small the Genoa makes a big difference. The engine is great & we had no probs motoring against rough seas. We motored from breskens to Amsterdam via the canals & manouverability was great.
I find lee cloths are essential as no modern boat seems to allow for sleeping under way. the galley is OK for the size of boat. The chart table just about takes my Yoeman plotter. The electrics cupboard is good but more room for electrics would be good.. The berths are all long I am 6 ft
6ins tall & can sleep OK. The anchor well is good, I carry 2 CQRs of 15KGs one with 35 M of chain, No problem anchoring but there is no proper allowance for fitting an anchor windlass.
If you need one get it put in when you buy the boat.
The cockpit is good for racing but poor for protection. I have the mainsheet track which is essential on this boat & it does restrict movement. I have made it worse by putting the liferaft just below it. In bad weather one cannot duck down out of the wind as I could in the last boat.
Storage is excellent & we even carried 2 bikes to France plus all the gear for 20 weeks including loads of tools & spares ( None of which were needed).
I reckon the Hanse is great I next year we are going to get a spinnaker , have it rated & give it a thrashing on the racing circuit. If I can master the helm we should do well.
