Which layout would you choose?

[johnalison]

Mine is broadly similar. The angled doors of the OP are common on smaller boats of this type. I think the older HR31 has them too. A little extra beam gives me a semi-dinette arrangement. I don't leave compasses loose on the chart table though.

 

[E39mad]

I prefer the 1st layout. Not a fan of quarter cabins in boats under about 33 feet. They can be pokey and take too much room out of the main cabin space.

The Southerly 100 (quarter berth) was remodelled as the 101 in the early 1990's to give a separate quarter cabin. Ruined the galley completely and boat felt smaller inside.

I was thinking about this in the summer when I was aboard a friends Griffon 26 and said to him that the Merlin 27 with the quarter cabin must would feel very different indeed especially with the saloon narrowing up towards the forecabin rather than all being in the widest part of the boat.

 

[Concerto]

Just looking at layouts is never the same as seeing them in real life. At the Southampton Show I was surprised at how many people commented how spacious Concerto was for a 32ft 40 year old design. Headroom is not as great as modern boats, with about 6' 2" in the main cabin but only 5' 6" in the heads, but then again I have lower freeboard. One other factor is berth length. The Feeling 286, with an aft cabin layout, I used own was suppose to sleep 6, but the forward berths were only child length and the main cabin were very narrow. The berths are generous in length and width by comparison in the Fulmar. At the show one gentleman wanted to try them for length as he was 6' 8" and he was able to stretch out on all berths. In fact the wide quarter berth with an extra pillow on the navigators seat would have easily accomodated someone 8'!

 

[johnalison]

I thought the Merlin was a quart in a pint pot and the saloon quite uncomfortable. I think that the Sadler 290 does achieve an effective aft cabin but don’t know the Feeling mentioned in #29. We had a fairly decent forecabin in our Sadler 29 but of course had to compromise with it sharing the heads with only a canvas screen to separate it. Nevertheless, we managed to survive a week or more five up with a guest couple on at least one occasion without coming to blows. There is no doubt that an aft heads makes full occupancy easier but it is a question of priorities - and age.

 

[Concerto]

Just been looking for a layout for the Feeling 286 and found 2 layouts. I had the single aft cabin and later they introduced a twin aft cabin by removing the forward berths to become sail stowage and removing the chart table and seat to become the heads. The engine was fitted just aft of the mast, on top of the keel.





The first layout plan came from a sail test report. https://www.clubfeeling1090.fr/images/presse/f286test.pdf

 

[davidej]

Tell me that I am wrong but I would call the top one a saloon plus one cabin and the bottom a saloon plus two cabins.

 

[mattonthesea]

I did my YMO and prep on a Fulmar 32. We had two people over 6'3" on board. One slept diagonally across the forepeak and the other across the saloon double berth. It did mean one person was up high in the pipe berth.

This is an educational thread; thanks

 

[johnalison]

Just been looking for a layout for the Feeling 286 and found 2 layouts. I had the single aft cabin and later they introduced a twin aft cabin by removing the forward berths to become sail stowage and removing the chart table and seat to become the heads. The engine was fitted just aft of the mast, on top of the keel.

View attachment 127075

View attachment 127076

The first layout plan came from a sail test report. https://www.clubfeeling1090.fr/images/presse/f286test.pdf

I can see that they managed it by doing without a forecabin. That certainly makes sense in some ways, and leads to a more comfortable saloon. The twin aft cabin version looks as if it would be short of stowage without an adequate cockpit locker and I can one of the berths being full of gear. Very French.

 

[E39mad]

The twin aft cabin layout was used in the Westerly Tempest with the heads located through the fwd bulkhead

 

[Concerto]

The twin aft cabin layout was used in the Westerly Tempest with the heads located through the fwd bulkhead

Funnily enough this layout is very much a Marmite layout, people either love it or hate it. A friend has a Tempest and it suits him fine, but it was not my preference.

A layout I do admire was the old Primrose designed Moody 29. It has a heads compartment that spans the width of the boat with the passageway doors closed, has a good forward cabin plus the table in the main cabin folds against the main bulkhead making an open plan main cabin.

 

[johnalison]

Funnily enough this layout is very much a Marmite layout, people either love it or hate it. A friend has a Tempest and it suits him fine, but it was not my preference.

A layout I do admire was the old Primrose designed Moody 29. It has a heads compartment that spans the width of the boat with the passageway doors closed, has a good forward cabin plus the table in the main cabin folds against the main bulkhead making an open plan main cabin.

I remember looking at that boat in a boat show. I didn't particularly like the fold-up table, maybe because we don't hold dances in our boats. My friend's Island Packet had a similar arrangement only double the size. A passage down below felt like floating through space.

 

[Wing Mark]

My boat has pretensions of sleeping 6 people.
I really can't imagine wanting more than 3 people on a 28ft boat overnight or about 4 for a day sail and lunch.
designing the boat from scratch to suit the reality of an older couple cruising for weekends etc with the occasional guest, the interior could be much better.

 

[Stemar]

Like my Snapdragon 24, that slept 5.

A bit like a revue I read once, of a boat that "slept two in comfort, four in discomfort and six in mortal enmity"

 

[lustyd]

designing the boat from scratch to suit the reality of an older couple cruising for weekends etc with the occasional guest, the interior could be much better.

Completely agree with this. It's sad that boat designers continue to start the design from the perspective of max possible occupancy rather than max realistic crew for an enjoyable time. Unfortunately the charter market drives the business so in reality if cruisers want a good interior then second hand and completely gutting the boat is probably the most sensible option.

 

[Koeketiene]

Completely agree with this. It's sad that boat designers continue to start the design from the perspective of max possible occupancy rather than max realistic crew for an enjoyable time. Unfortunately the charter market drives the business so in reality if cruisers want a good interior then second hand and completely gutting the boat is probably the most sensible option.

I fear that that way lays financial ruin.
The more sensible option - IMHO - would be to buy an older boat (with good/realistic interior layout) and bring it up to your own personal standards in terms of rigging/sails/electrics and electronics.

 

[lustyd]

I fear that that way lays financial ruin.
The more sensible option - IMHO - would be to buy an older boat (with good/realistic interior layout) and bring it up to your own personal standards in terms of rigging/sails/electrics and electronics.

You've missed the point. rigging and electronics can't fix a fundamentally stupid interior which is designed to make 10 people uncomfortable in a boat big enough for 3. My point was that since boats are generally designed for cramming in people then you'd need to remove the 3 heads, 10 berths, 4 sofas from an older boat and start from scratch if you wanted a genuinely good interior designed for a suitable occupancy. Uma exemplify this approach, and if the rest of us had the time, money and skills I'm sure it would be more common. As it stands, most of us are too worried about losing resale value to make major changes.

 

[Koeketiene]

You've missed the point. rigging and electronics can't fix a fundamentally stupid interior which is designed to make 10 people uncomfortable in a boat big enough for 3. My point was that since boats are generally designed for cramming in people then you'd need to remove the 3 heads, 10 berths, 4 sofas from an older boat and start from scratch if you wanted a genuinely good interior designed for a suitable occupancy. Uma exemplify this approach, and if the rest of us had the time, money and skills I'm sure it would be more common. As it stands, most of us are too worried about losing resale value to make major changes.

And you miss my point about buying an older boat.
The boat I bought last year was launched in 1977 - resale value is the least of my concerns.

 

[dunedin]

Completely agree with this. It's sad that boat designers continue to start the design from the perspective of max possible occupancy rather than max realistic crew for an enjoyable time. Unfortunately the charter market drives the business so in reality if cruisers want a good interior then second hand and completely gutting the boat is probably the most sensible option.

There are plenty of modern boats not targeted at the charter business if you choose to look for them - Arcona, HR, X Yachts etc - as well as twin cabin versions from other builders

 

[lustyd]

There are plenty of modern boats not targeted at the charter business if you choose to look for them - Arcona, HR, X Yachts etc - as well as twin cabin versions from other builders

None of those have layouts I'd consider to be great, they're all a variation on a theme. I did actually start a thread a while ago on this subject and there were a couple but the vast majority are effectively all the same old designs.

 

[Wing Mark]

The other driver for 'lots of bunks' is racing, where you need to accommodate the self-loading ballast.
On some boats, the owner generally has somewhere better to sleep, ashore.