Which forecourt diesel?

[seeSimon]

Red.
Years ago, I worked for a ship bunkering Co, where sometimes all of the incoming diesel was white. I was told that this was due to tankage availabity at the refinery.
There was then a small dosing system that dyed this fuel red, as appropriate to sale.

At a similar job, we used to market cheap crap diesel to farmers and fishermen...I'm not sure of the difference, this was many years ago.
You wouldn't belive the sh1te that used to be disposed of by blending with the Heavy Fuel Oils sold to large merchant ships! Veg oils, chemical waste, waste lube oils, water, air.....

Dosing.
I use Marine 16, and find it very effective. I also do regular "Italian tune ups". Beta 14.

Premium petrol.
Definitely a real thing. I had a highly tuned Golf GTi, remapped and dyno to prove 345HP, with many tweeks of both the hard and software. This would not run on cheap (high ethanol) fuel. I had to seek out premium shell or esso fuels.
It had the ability to switch control maps/modes to detuned the engine to allow "emergency" use of cr@p fuel....sort of a limp mode.
This is not unusual.

Premium diesel?
I don't know. I've never evaluated it, as have always had low powered bog standard diesels in both cars and boats.

I worry greatly about diesel bug and take all reasonable precautions...

 

[Refueler]

There are TWO agents added to Low Excise Diesel (Red to you guys) .... Yellow Marker and Red Dye.

This is why the old wives tale about Fullers Earth / Cat Litter is BS about filtering out red to use instead of white. You CANNOT filter out the Chemical Agent Yellow marker ... which is detected by chemical test ....

I love reading about this won't run on xxxx and only runs on yyyy ..... having blended Euro Spec fuels for years until later moving away because I altered my Company's work - I know what is in those pumps .............

 

[Refueler]

You wouldn't belive the sh1te that used to be disposed of by blending with the Heavy Fuel Oils sold to large merchant ships! Veg oils, chemical waste, waste lube oils, water, air.....

Why mention HFO which is a completely different distillate from gasoil - Diesel ... they have no relation other than being different fractions of the refinery process.

As to what was added ? That would have been a purely local matter and not by producer.

 

[Humblebee]

Mechanic friend told me cheap supermarket petrol can cause problems, and advised me to use branded stuff - Shell, BP or whatever, with an occasional fill of the premium stuff.
I realise the thread is about diesel, not petrol, but if Refueller is still around, perhaps he could comment?
Chris

 

[BobnLesley]

I tried premium petrol in my car and it made no difference whatsoever.
However the lawnmower and the very old two stroke outboard like it very much.

I first came across E10 fuel in the USA and the small two stroke outboards really didn't like it - on two subsequent visits, we loaded up before arrival with substantially more expensive, but ethanol free petrol from the Bahamas - in conversation with other yotties, it seemed that most/all outboard engines could cope with E5, but once you went to E10 it was noticeable and the detrimental effects were more pronounced on the smaller engines, with 2-strokes suffering worse than 4-strokes. the more effect the ethanol had.
As for cars: I have one motorbike which runs noticeably better (pulling from low-revs especially) with E5 rather than E10; it also returns 12% more mpg, which makes the E5 cheaper per mile to use too. One or the other makes no discernible difference in the car or any of the other bikes.

 

[bluerm166]

With a low turnover of diesel I have started to consider the small reservoir of diesel which is left in my pair of black diesel containers in the locker for what may be some time.
Although the residue ,after siphoning across.has been treated with M16 I add a few drops before stowing.

 

[Momac]

As for cars: I have one motorbike which runs noticeably better (pulling from low-revs especially) with E5 rather than E10; it also returns 12% more mpg, which makes the E5 cheaper per mile to use too. One or the other makes no discernible difference in the car or any of the other bikes.

Reminds me . Back in 1989 I had a new Ford Sierra . It had a carburettor .
The Ford allegedly could run on unleaded But that was bullshit. The ford dealer was deaf and could not hear it pinking.
I changed to 4 star and all was well including better mpg . The Sierra was the second worst car I ever owned . It depreciated very fast.

My next car in 1992 was a VW Polo which had fuel injection. No fuel problems . When I traded it in 6 years later and despite high mileage the dealer actually wanted it.

Then came a Rover 400 which was definitely the worst car I ever owned.

 

[Poecheng]

Mrs P generally fills the car with diesel as she is the one that uses it during the week, I just turn up at the weekends.
I can tell whether she has put in ordinary diesel or premium. The engine (2013 BMW320d with about 120k), which is nice anyway, has a discernably smoother quality to it with the premium stuff. Not a massive difference but enough for me to tell the difference accurately.

 

[Refueler]

All suppliers tender for Supermarket contracts .... its good business ....

having blended fuel for most across the EU / UK - the fuel went to common storage and was sold out to whatever company paid for it.

I give my car its annual birthday wash ... and I swear it runs sweeter !

OK ... I only can relate to one example of actual significant performance difference .... until the 'border issues' with Russia ... there was a thriving 'bandit business' in bringing Russian gasoline across ... because it was based on 'real A76 base' gasoline. It was in 92 .. 95 ... 97 and of course base A76 ... it was sweet smelling .. sweet running gasoline without the crap ....

 

[seeSimon]

Why mention HFO which is a completely different distillate from gasoil - Diesel ... they have no relation other than being different fractions of the refinery process.

As to what was added ? That would have been a purely local matter and not by producer.

HFO dit ...to show you shouldn't always blindly trust fuel oil suppliers, not even in the UK...never mind West Africa (as one example).

I think I do understand the difference between HFO and DOs. However they are generally manufactured and sold by the same companies?

Local, of course, see above.

You will be aware that the different specs of HFO are often "produced" locally, by blending.

 

[Refueler]

HFO dit ...to show you shouldn't always blindly trust fuel oil suppliers, not even in the UK...never mind West Africa (as one example).

I think I do understand the difference between HFO and DOs. However they are generally manufactured and sold by the same companies?

Local, of course, see above.

You will be aware that the different specs of HFO are often "produced" locally, by blending.

Gor Blimey guv !

I've been in this fuel game since 1973 ................. would you really like a course on how blending is done ? Probably not - as its not as easy as people think.

 

[dunedin]

Mrs P generally fills the car with diesel as she is the one that uses it during the week, I just turn up at the weekends.
I can tell whether she has put in ordinary diesel or premium. The engine (2013 BMW320d with about 120k), which is nice anyway, has a discernably smoother quality to it with the premium stuff. Not a massive difference but enough for me to tell the difference accurately.

You must have a rare talent - i have done nearly 200k miles in various BMW diesels, 3.0d and 2.0d, and could not detect any difference at all.
Orher than immediately after winter cold start, always super smooth. And revved to max at least briefly almost every drive (as we are in open country roads within a short distance).

 

[Lightwave395]

You must have a rare talent - i have done nearly 200k miles in various BMW diesels, 3.0d and 2.0d, and could not detect any difference at all.
Orher than immediately after winter cold start, always super smooth. And revved to max at least briefly almost every drive (as we are in open country roads within a short distance).

I recently got rid of my 2016 Toyota 2.0d Avensis (which had a BMW engine - although one generally reckoned to be a POS) It certainly ran better and gave more MPG on Shell premium diesel than supermarket or standard fuel, carefully measured on my commutes from Southampton to my boat in Plymouth over the winter as I didn't believe it. I also put Dipetane in the Toyota and my now current Citroen, at £13 for 5 litres I thought it worth a try

Fuel & Emission Science Review of Dipetane

 

[Cardinal]

Many thanks to refueler #22 for mentioning the two markers in “red” diesel.
I had started to worry about the darker hue of my fuel as seen through the glass bowl of the
CAV separator/filter and in consequence changed both of my filters finding no crud or gunge in either
but now find that HM Gov have recently changed to a yellow marker which I believe explains the darker hue.

 

[Refueler]

Many thanks to refueler #22 for mentioning the two markers in “red” diesel.
I had started to worry about the darker hue of my fuel as seen through the glass bowl of the
CAV separator/filter and in consequence changed both of my filters finding no crud or gunge in either
but now find that HM Gov have recently changed to a yellow marker which I believe explains the darker hue.

Recently ??

The Yellow Marker - is a chemical marker that cannot be removed ... and is used by C&E to prove the fuel is or not reduced duty ...

The Red is a physical dye and although cannot be removed fully - despite peoples claims with Fullers Earth etc - can be reduced to barely visual. This is why the chemical Yellow Marker is used.

The Red and Yellow have been both added since literally first days of its availability. (Note that markets can use various Dyes instead of Red ... Green is a common one ... )

Diesel Fuel (Gas Oil) can darken for various reasons ... can be after being subjected to high temperature ... can be due to ageing ... can be due to the blend and its eventual purpose. Unless the actual blend purpose is known - its impossible to say why.

Diesel (real name Gasoil) is in the light - middle distilate range ... and can range from near colourless - actually a tinted yellowish clear - through to dark brown. The darker usually being of the MDO / MGO purpose - that is ships Gas Oil with a lower Cetane and often greater denisty. It can border Fuel Oil ... Strange as it may seem ... it can be more trouble to carry Gasoil that is bordering Fuel Oil as any contamination or spec change can de-rate it to High Grade LFO.

Think I'll end there ...

 

[rogerthebodger]

we used to have 2 types of diesels at the pump 500 ppm or 50 ppm Sulphur now we only have 50 ppm which used to be a higher cost

As far as petrol we have different octane rating for coast or inland as of cause the coast is a sea level as in the UK but inland, I live at 200 m above sea level so less oxygen in the air to burn the petrol correctly

We do not have any reduced tax diesel as farmers and fishermen can reclaim the levies on their income tax returns as a business expense

 

[Refueler]

we used to have 2 types of diesels at the pump 500 ppm or 50 ppm Sulphur now we only have 50 ppm which used to be a higher cost

As far as petrol we have different octane rating for coast or inland as of cause the coast is a sea level as in the UK but inland, I live at 200 m above sea level so less oxygen in the air to burn the petrol correctly

We do not have any reduced tax diesel as farmers and fishermen can reclaim the levies on their income tax returns as a business expense

Traditional diesel used to be 0.2% Sulphur ... It was used for all .. from domestic heating through to the cars .... the agricultural being dyed and tax reduced. (We will ignore Ships as they had higher Sulphur levels at that time).
Diesel then over time reduced Sulphur in stages while "Red" stayed as 0.2%. But this became easier to stop the 0.2% when it became less available. Red then generally used the same diesel as the road ...
Successive reductions of Sulphur continued until todays which is so low - its hard to see if it can get any less.
Of course you could run GTL - but then you need to source it !! AND make sure that your engine can survive the deep clean that will occur with GTL.