oilybilge
Well-Known Member
I have a Beta Marine 20, about six years old, not used a great deal, and it often runs at low revs. Is there any advantage/disadvantage in using 'premium' forecourt diesel over the regular sort? Cheers.
Which forecourt diesel?
- Thread starter oilybilge
- Start date
Stemar
Well-Known Member
Premium fuels have more detergents in them, which may be an advantage on high performance engines, or they may just increase suppliers' profits. (Cynical me rather suspects the latter)
My Beta 20s do fine on red diesel, though the mechanic who looks after them tells me he's seeing more fuel problems - bug, etc since the addition of ethanol, which seems to be pretty hard to escape now. He recommends a fuel treatment with every fill up and a dose of bug killer once a year. I would think you're at higher risk of the bug if the fuel sits in your tank for a long time, so I'd be tempted to do this
My Beta 20s do fine on red diesel, though the mechanic who looks after them tells me he's seeing more fuel problems - bug, etc since the addition of ethanol, which seems to be pretty hard to escape now. He recommends a fuel treatment with every fill up and a dose of bug killer once a year. I would think you're at higher risk of the bug if the fuel sits in your tank for a long time, so I'd be tempted to do this
[70521]
Well-Known Member
@Refueler will be along later with some technical explanations.
Do you use premium diesel in your motor vehicles? Do you use additives in your boat engine?
I use bog standard forecourt diesel from the nearest filling station in my 1986 VP 2002 and not suffered the bug, unlike when I was using the red stuff from a low turnover marina.
jwilson
Well-Known Member
".... often runs at low revs". You might do better running it a bit harder. Have seen an 800 hour engine needing a rebore - owner ".... only ever ran it gently". My own 6,000+ hour engine ran beautifully today as usual, and I regard 2,600-2800 rpm as cruisng speed.
I do use Marine 16 bug killer, and over 19 years have emptied and cleaned out the tank 4 or 5 times. There's always some gunge in it.
I do use Marine 16 bug killer, and over 19 years have emptied and cleaned out the tank 4 or 5 times. There's always some gunge in it.
Momac
Well-Known Member
I do use a regular fuel additive which is primarily a fuel system cleaner but it does smell like its highly toxic so should kill all known germs. Not sure its the additive that helps make the engines run sweetly or maybe it's just the engines have matured.
Overall the best additive for an engine is plenty of use and therefore regular fresh fuel.
Overall the best additive for an engine is plenty of use and therefore regular fresh fuel.
wallacebob
Well-Known Member
I'm not a doctor, but...
When I did high mileage in my car (35k) I used any old supermarket diesel. It never sat long , at least 2-3 tanks a weeks used. When I reduced my miles I had issues, EGR faults, etc. Switched to Premium, and a weekly Italian Tune-up, issues gone. Same with my petrol outboard and generator, always E5, plus additive. Regular hard running always helps.
When I did high mileage in my car (35k) I used any old supermarket diesel. It never sat long , at least 2-3 tanks a weeks used. When I reduced my miles I had issues, EGR faults, etc. Switched to Premium, and a weekly Italian Tune-up, issues gone. Same with my petrol outboard and generator, always E5, plus additive. Regular hard running always helps.
Stemar
Well-Known Member
Was it the switch in fuel or the Italian tune-ups that kept the engine sweet?
We use supermarket fuel in our Hyundai with no issues, and probably only do about 7,000 miles a year, but a fair bit of it is on motorways, so it does get a bit of a workout.
oilybilge
Well-Known Member
Excellent replies, thanks chaps. I had to google 'Italian tune-up'
Yeah, I got a mild case of the clap this year, first time it's ever happened. I've always used red diesel, but given that it now contains biofuels and isn't any cheaper there seems little point. I do use an additive (d-bug).
I do try and give it a proper work out now and then. The problem is I also do a lot of puttering about and trolling. That's why I was wondering about premium diesel, which they claim shifts the soot from the cylinders. What I'm hearing is .... it can't do any harm?
Yeah, I got a mild case of the clap this year, first time it's ever happened. I've always used red diesel, but given that it now contains biofuels and isn't any cheaper there seems little point. I do use an additive (d-bug).
I do try and give it a proper work out now and then. The problem is I also do a lot of puttering about and trolling. That's why I was wondering about premium diesel, which they claim shifts the soot from the cylinders. What I'm hearing is .... it can't do any harm?
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
Are fuel treatment and bug killer different things?
What is this 'fuel treatment', and do I need some?
Stemar
Well-Known Member
The ones I was recommended are by Marine 16. The bug killer comes in a 100ml bottle, which will do several treatments unless you've got a bad case of the bug, and the treatment comes in a 500ml bottle, and my tanks (around 100l each) take 50ml each when I fill up.
Do you need some? I don't know. I didn't think I did, but the cost isn't huge, and I'd hate to have to try to sail into a harbour on our boat. If you burn through lots of diesel and fill up regularly from a reliable source, probably not; if you only use the engine for a few minutes to get in and out of marinas, and fuel sits in the tank for months/years, especially over winter, then I reckon it's probably a useful insurance against the engine stopping when you least want it to.
Incidentally, I asked if, with current diesels, it was still a good idea to fill the tank for winter. He told me that, as we have plastic tanks, and we're treating the fuel, probably not, but metal tanks, as he put it, sweat, by which I assume he means they're more prone to condensation inside, so probably yes.
wonkywinch
Well-Known Member
I read an article in the motoring press a while back that said whilst premium petrol was definitely a thing (less ethanol, higher octane) premium diesel was a marketing ploy.
Momac
Well-Known Member
I tried premium petrol in my car and it made no difference whatsoever.
However the lawnmower and the very old two stroke outboard like it very much.
wonkywinch
Well-Known Member
I've owned a few cars with high performance engines and they are tuned for higher octane fuel. I remember my gf Dad had a Mark 1 Lotus Cortina that was a pig to start unless it had 5 star petrol in it.
Unless your engine is designed for it, you won't feel any difference.
For your garden and two stroke engines, use the least ethanol petrol you can find and stop the engines by turning the fuel supply off so the carbon runs dry to prevent it gumming up.
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
I have a 2003 Smart Roadster, and I use premium (E5) fuel in it because although standard (E10) fuel is supposed to be ok, I've heard contradictory advice on whether it can cause damage to seals etc. But as the car predates the extensive addition of alcohol to fuel, I prefer not to risk it.
CJU
Well-Known Member
Good advice to run carburettor dry but as the engine starts to die operate the choke. That will usually make the engine run for a bit longer and almost completely empty the carburettor.
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
I was still none the wiser as to what 'fuel treatment' was if it was different to diesel bug killer (which is the only Marine 16 product I was aware of, and is something you put in regularly), but having perused Marine 16's website it appears that by 'fuel treatment' you are referring to Marine 16's 'Diesel Fuel Complete, which it describes as -
'A blend of additives to give complete protection from the undesirable effects of Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD) and BioDiese'
and has the bold claims -
- 'Prevents degradation and the growth of diesel bug
- Increases Cetane number for easier starting
- Contains a lubricant, detergent, and demulsifier
- Reduces fuel system and injector deposits to zero
- Reduces emissions and improves fuel consumption'
)As far as I can make out, they are suggesting you can dose fuel regularly with either 'Diesel Bug Treatment' or 'Diesel Fuel Complete', the latter killing the bugs plus all those other things.
(They also do a 'Diesel Injector Cleaner' as a one-off treatment, which can be followed by regular doses of the 'Diesel Fuel Complete'.)
Refueler
Well-Known Member
1. Give that diesel engine a goof thrashing every so often ... get temp up and it will do wonders for it ...
2. Premium or regular diesel ... yes there is a slight difference - but average boat engine makes no odds ...
3. I dose my fuel at intervals - basically as the fuel is topped up and after a few top ups my additive gets diluted down - I drop a dose in again to pep it back up.
4. Before lift in at start of season - I give a good dose of additive - which then stands with the fuel till lift-in.
I only use Enzyme Based additive that kills and then 'eats' the bug - breaking it down to then be burnt in the engine. Bug Killer itself - non enzyme can create and leave the dead bug gunge in tank bottom if you are using in a heavily contaminated fuel ... leading to same filter clogging as if you did'nt use any additive !! So Bug Killer is great as a preventative ... but not as a cure.
2. Premium or regular diesel ... yes there is a slight difference - but average boat engine makes no odds ...
3. I dose my fuel at intervals - basically as the fuel is topped up and after a few top ups my additive gets diluted down - I drop a dose in again to pep it back up.
4. Before lift in at start of season - I give a good dose of additive - which then stands with the fuel till lift-in.
I only use Enzyme Based additive that kills and then 'eats' the bug - breaking it down to then be burnt in the engine. Bug Killer itself - non enzyme can create and leave the dead bug gunge in tank bottom if you are using in a heavily contaminated fuel ... leading to same filter clogging as if you did'nt use any additive !! So Bug Killer is great as a preventative ... but not as a cure.
Pye_End
Well-Known Member
Is it rumour or fact that red has the same level of biodiesel as white forecourt?
Momac
Well-Known Member
My preference is to have the freshest possible fuel added in the spring.
According to various fuel suppliers on the Internet the only differences between red and white diesel are the colour and the tax.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Depends on supplier ..... and the market its in ... eg : I used to blend for various markets .. EU / Africa / Carib (for USA blends) .... in EU - such as France - there were two grades predominantly :
FOD40 and FOD49
Fuel Oil Domestique 40 Cetane ..... 49 Cetane.
One for agricultural and boats ... other for road use.
Both were from same stock ... with a few bits thrown in to create a visual / lab difference.
In UK and most markets - the availability of 0.2 Gasoil - the traditional base for Red is no longer so wide .. so its generally cheaper to just use the ULSD for both 'Red' and White production. Note : 0.2 Gasoil was a large export item for Russian Co's .. which of course last few years has not been available...
One of the problems for Joe Public - is the marketing hype that some suppliers put out in adverts / online etc ...
