which cruiser suits best ?

[deepbluesea]

Hi all,

I'm new to all this, so please excuse me if my ramblings seem a little odd !

I'm taking the plunge and looking to purchase my first motor cruiser, to be used for two main purposes - firstly, as something for me to learn all things boaty on, generally mess about on, and pour lots of money into (at least, that's what it sounds like judging by all the postings i've read on this forum!); and secondly as something to be used as a bit of a holiday home, mainly for long weekends but with the odd week/fortnight.

I'm still a long way off drawing up a shortlist of boats, though i'm fairly sure it'll be 24-28', will sleep 4, and will have a shower & heated water (SWMBO insists), and will hopefully be within my £20-30k budget. My intention is to keep it on Windermere for at least a year or two (it's size & facilities making it a good place to learn the basics, i'm told), but i'd also like to be able to cruise the Thames and/or French waterways at some point in the future with the same boat.

So, to my first sticking point. I've looked at lots of very nice sporty looking boats on the web (Regal, Maxum, Bayliner, Four Winns, Sealine, etc. etc.) that look great and seem to be the right size and have the right facilities. However, having read several posts on the forum, i'm concerned that a typical example of these boats with a petrol engine may not be best suited, as (a) pottering around on Windermere at <10mph, and on the rivers at less than that, could do the engine no good, and (b) i'll spend a fortune in petrol running it at these speeds. Am I right in thinking this ? What would the fuel consumption be like at these speeds ?

I guess my other option is to go for more of a river crusier type of boat with a much more economical engine that's designed to run at low speeds, but I prefer the more sporty streamlined look of boats like those above.

All help & suggestions welcome !

Thanks.

 

[CaptainThames]

Big question, as for fuel, you will not use much petrol at river speed, 1 - 2 gph perhaps but if you are later looking at lots of miles cruising at high speed then fuel bills will be huge. Also consider that although nice sporty regals etc look good, are they really suited to the sort of boating you suggest i.e. rivers, lakes and french canals. Something more displacement type with smaller diesel engine may be more suitable. 20 - 30 K should do fine on the second hand market, look at Fairline Mirage for instance, or older Freemans and Seamasters. Also princess 32, Project 31 and RLM, all based on same hull. They will not do 30 kts, but do you want to?

 

[duncan]

welcome to the forum

You have clearly read up well on the subject however I am afraid that you have answered your own question to a degree.......

Personally I don't think fuel consumption is the real issue - boat handling and space are significantly more important. For the use you intend you want a hull with a keel or rudder to give you directional stability - outboard or outdrives on a planning hull won't do it.
A planning hull in the sizes you are talking will probably need 25% more length to deliver the same usable internal space - and definitely so when you take into account the fuel tanks and engine sizes associated with a planning boat.
They don't have to look any less sporty - but function over form tends to do this to some degree. If you went on a car forum and said you wanted small sports car that could also handle large loads from time to time you would have to compromise on the word small and get a powerfull sporty estate. Here again size will solve all as a large twin engined sports cruiser will also do the job to a degree (but won't match your budget!).
you need that river/estuary cruiser; and get your enjoyment out of using it rather than other people watching you use it.

btw - nice forum name but a little at odds with your stated intentions; do you really hanker for an ocean going yacht perhaps?

 

[Nautorius]

Hi and Welcome.

Untill recently we did exactly what you are sugesting. We kept the Boat on Windermere and had a trailer. Then in the Summer it could go to the South Coast, the south of France or one year we towed it to Menorca!

I think your idea has a lot of merit so stick with the concept.

A petrol boat is fine for what you are sugesting as long as it is a Single engine say 5.0l/5.7l. The Running costs are fine and manageable for one or two weeks blasting around. I agree that they are however not great at slow speed, as tend to meander around, and as they are quite light and have large Canvas hoods the windage effect can be amplified at slow speeds until you get the hang of it. If you want the sportscruiser route then consider Chapparal 240/260, bayliner 2450/2650, Maxum 2400, Glastron GS249 (Cheaper quality but you may get a diesel), Regal 2465/2565, Four Winns 248/258 or Sealine 240/S24.

A sportsboat will fit the bill perfectly and should have all the comfort you need plus be fairly new (under 5 years old) so have minimal maintenance.

A diesel option is better but it probably will not be worth the extra 7.5/10K on a sportsboat. I have always stuck to Petrol and it has been fine for the type of use you are planning.

It may be tempting to look at a 28/30ft boat with Twin Petrols but here is a word of warning. 1) you have double the maintenance costs. 2) you have double the fuel costs and 3)you have to use a Low Loader to move it. I now have a Twin Petrol 29ft boat and love it but it is not as practicle for what you want it for. It was previously on Windermere and is now going on the Thames with blasts around the East coast.

BTW, I believe that Petrol engines are better suited to pottering about at less than 10mph than Turbo Diesels.

Hope this helps,

Paul

 

[MNewby]

Agree with the captain,do you want a boat or to pose?
I would not dream of buying a petrol boat.
I was in simular position years ago,bought an RLM with twin diesels (see currently for sale at amble boat company web site,and within your budget) use her for offshore and river cruising,ideal for week stays also,not fast but a great boat.
Only selling to buy another one for longer range of cruising.

Good luck
Tynesman

 

[duncan]

[ QUOTE ]
we did exactly what you are sugesting. We kept the Boat on Windermere and had a trailer. Then in the Summer it could go to the South Coast, the south of France or one year we towed it to Menorca

[/ QUOTE ]
that is a world away from cruising the Thames and the french canals!
[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I believe that Petrol engines are better suited to pottering about at less than 10mph than Turbo Diesels

[/ QUOTE ]
why a turbo diesel? nice 15-30hp diesel will push a sub 30ft craft to hull speed and run all day at 4/5 knots - as would a 4 stroke OB too. petrol v diesel isn't the issue per se.

 

[Nautorius]

Sorry for not making it clearer,

I was focusing on the Boats I had owned. My brother and I both had Petrol Sports Cruisers. Although I never took mine to the Thames we did take my brothers to the Thames, the Norfolk Broads (inc East Coast) and the Caledonia Canal. It was a Four Winns 268 Vista Petrol,Trailerable Sports Cruiser.

As I have no experience of the other type of boats I can not give an opinion, therefore focused on Sports Boats.

Hope that helps,

Paul

 

[duncan]

and I'm sorry if my post looked like I was getting at you Paul. As you surmised I wasn't questioning your comments only the relevance to the post originator.
I have enjoyed towing sports boats from Loch Lomond to Spain, Plymouth to Brittany and a lot of places in between - and even currently own a 25ft outdrive powered one. However whilst it's great moored up and in open water on the plane it requires constant attention around the harbour/inland envionment and, relative to it's size, lacks living space.
A sports boat can live in all of the enviroments mentioned in the thread, even thrive, but you aren't going to get anything out of it unless you can get it up on the plane from time to time. Windemere a few years ago and the issue wouldn't be so clear cut - even falling in favour of the craft you highlight - but today it can't be worth all the compromises.

 

[abraxus]

Hi

About 5 years ago I bought a Bayliner 2655 sports cruiser up on Windermere, largely because it was in very good condition for a 10 year old boat and I loved the look, space and layout of the widebody model. After a while it became a hassle travelling so far and I moved down to the Thames, and was concerned by the issues you raise.

Yes, it's hardly the ideal boat for river cruising, and represents something of a compromise, but in my experience I've been very happy. I have found servicing and maintenance quite easy and reasonable and running costs for the overpowered 5.7L petrol engine not bad either. Handling is ok once you get used to it and slow speed manoeuvering is very good despite what I'd been led to believe.

There are probably countless boats more suited to the job of river cruiser but personally I am happy and wouldn't change unless it was to get something bigger.

 

[Nautorius]

Thanks Duncan,

As always boats are about compromise. "What suits one person does not suit another" 2 Months ago I thought about buying a larger Sports Cruiser then circumstances closed that door. Then I thought about a sports cruiser and lately I have been looking at aft cabin cruisers (Yeh a Broom!) So we are never really satisfied with every aspect of our boats. As I said a sportscruiser will do the job, it just might not be right for everyone.

Cheers

Paul

 

[deepbluesea]

Wow, thanks all. I've spent ages pondering the answer to this...and you've all saved me many more hours thinking about it!

My preference of sports cruiser over river cruiser, based on looks, is nothing to do with posing...simply personal choice. I guess it's the same with cars......my mate loves his Audi TT, but the looks do nothing for me.

So, i'd say if I go with the sports cruiser, I don't need to worry about under-using the powerful engine, nor the fuel economy at 10mph or less, plus it's cheaper to move from one location to another. I will, however, be compromising on slow speed handling and interior space.

If anyone thinks i'm wrong, please correct me now before I start to draw up my list of possible purchases.

 

[Lionel]

I'm not an overly experienced boater but my first boat was a Glastron 249. From what your intended use is, I would bear in mind that the layout of the seating up top is not conducive to convivial gathering around a table for 'dribks'. This may not be a problem to you but I mention it for your consideration.

The only other thing I wiuld add, is if you go for diesel, despite all the stuff about red diesel, will it or won't it argument, it did seem to be a contributing factor in making the boat easier to sell when the time came.

 

[marcandsebe]

[ QUOTE ]
we did exactly what you are sugesting. We kept the Boat on Windermere and had a trailer. Then in the Summer it could go to the South Coast, the south of France or one year we towed it to Menorca

[/ QUOTE ]
that is a world away from cruising the Thames and the french canals!
[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I believe that Petrol engines are better suited to pottering about at less than 10mph than Turbo Diesels

[/ QUOTE ]
why a turbo diesel? nice 15-30hp diesel will push a sub 30ft craft to hull speed and run all day at 4/5 knots - as would a 4 stroke OB too. petrol v diesel isn't the issue per se.

The Thames can run quite fast and if you want to go on the non tidal Thames, a bigger engined and more powerful boat would be better. The Regal 242, 2460 and 2465, essentially the same boat have 6' head room in the cabin. I would go for diesel if possible.