Which builder builds the best quality.....

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asteven221

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........flybridge cruisers circa mid 90's vintage? All being well I will be in the market for a new (to us) boat soon and I am thinking along the lines of Fairline, Princess, Sealine circa 40 to 45 feet sub £150k. Any thoughts on quality, or are they so similar in that respect it's not really worth bothering about.

I have identified the following boats which at least on paper, look promising for our needs:-

Princess 410, 420, 440
Sealine F43, F44 or maybe 420 Statesman
Fairline maybe a Phantom 38 or maybe 41/43

From what I can see all flybridge cruisers are pretty much the same in terms of layout, so it's fair to say almost any will meet our needs in that respect. The only "must have" feature we want is to be able to walk on the bathing platform from the cockpit and ideally, stairs to the flybridge as opposed to a ladder.

I do all the routine engine maintenance myself and any comments about the engine installation would be really handy to know. I really hate boat's that have filters, pumps, seacocks etc.... that are almost impossible to get at for servicing.

Any information or alternatives would be appreciated. If any of the boats mentioned have known problems, then I would be very keen to hear what they are!

Thanks everyone.
 
No Sunseeker on your short list? :D

All of these large Builders must have done something right re producing 'quality' boats - and for a boat that might be 15 years old a lot will depend on how it has been looked after during these 15 years.

Methinks go for the boat that appeals (visually, emotionally, perhaps even practically) to you the most (and which is within the given budget....)
 
PS - A thought re access in the engine room - what is good access for a small skinny person like me might not be considered as good by somebody a bit larger..... I have been around various engine rooms of Princesses / Vikings here at Port St Charles marina (www.portstcharles.com ) and I was amazed at the lack of access in many of them, especially to the outboard sides of the engines.
A maintenance company here called BOYSS (http://barbadosyachtsales.net/services.htm ) looks after many of these boats; the principals of this company are fairly muscular and they freely admit that they simply cant fit in some of their engine rooms - that is why they employ skinny minions........ :D
 
Firstly I have a princess 410 and it has a ladder so cross it off your list.

IMHO and I should not say this but..... the mid 90 fairlines were better built than the princess boats of the same era.

I would say 150k will buy you, a nice princess 420, a not so nice 440, or maybe larger if your lucky.

The fairlines, a nice phantom 40/42 and a later 38, but there tiny inside compared to the princess and the side cabin has little walking around room.

A bit more will buy you a princess 40, one has just gone up our way for less than 160k but had the slightly smaller 63l engines in so top speed wll be down 3 knots over the 370hp 63ps.

Sealines...... you will get a newer boat for the same bucks, the 420 and later f series are nicely trimmed boats, but are lighter, require less horsepower to give the same given speed, so draw your own conclusion to the build process, ive never been a fan of sealines but there innovation regarding hideaways for cockpit canopies, pull out swim platforms has been far better than any other british builder.

Engine rooms on Princess and Fairlines are well thought out and offer reasonable levels of ease for servicing, plumbing and wiring is always good, gone are the days of removing engines to renew simple parts, as in the days of the narrow bennet hulls, an old 385 with 61a 306s was a nightmare to service, especially the stb engine oil filter and impeller.

Choose wisely id go for a nice 420 with stairs or a phantom 42, the flybridges are excellent on both boats, engine rooms, galleys etc, one downside to the princess is the mapleleaf woodwork, its an aquired taste and most models have now faded to a sicky yellow.

There are also azimuts on the market for the same money, but thats another story!!
 
Thanks for the info. 410 off the list then. Sunseekers? Hmmm need to look at them cause I always associate them with targa style boats rather than flybridge. Azimuts? Quite like what I have seen but don't know a lot about them build wise. Thanks for the advice volvopaul. I had an 80's Fairline 40 with 61a engines and as you say a less beamy Bennet hull. It was just a damn nightmare to get at anything on these engines. I liked the boat, but I would definately walk away from any boat where it's virtually impossible to get to the belts, seacocks, filters, impeller etc.....

Take your point re Sealines. I agree that they do seem to put a bit more thought into their designs from what I can see. Not a bad thing considering the fact that the rest are almost identical in layout to my old F40, which I guess would have been designed in the late 70's. Boat designers would appear to be incredibly lazy or just have no imagination! Or is it that they got it right first time and it just works? Another thread perhaps?
 
Just had a search for Sunseekers. I could only find two flybridge boats for sale. One at £175k and one £199k. Gusss I will need to save up if I want a Sunseeker then!
 
Take your point re Sealines. I agree that they do seem to put a bit more thought into their designs from what I can see.

....................................................................................................

Yep, they'd have got an extra five bedrooms in my boat, right where the rope locker and storage used to be.
 
You will need to do your own beam comparisons but Sealines generally are more beamy than the rest giving a 'bigger feel' inside. You will pay for this with a couple of knots off top speed but for me it's worth it if you're after a more 'family' boat. As for weight, as mentioned earlier, I think this is something from the past where Sealine were one of the first to adopt a more consistent automated layup process against the more traditional hand layup which produced inconsistant thick and thin bits and in consequence a heavier but not stronger hull. I'd be suprised if there is any difference in weight of the hulls between the boats you are looking at. Incidentally I'd be proud to own any of the brands that you have mentioned.
 
asteven221 said:
........flybridge cruisers circa mid 90's vintage? All being well I will be in the market for a new (to us) boat soon and I am thinking along the lines of Fairline, Princess, Sealine circa 40 to 45 feet sub £150k. Any thoughts on quality, or are they so similar in that respect it's not really worth bothering about.

I have identified the following boats which at least on paper, look promising for our needs:-

Princess 410, 420, 440
Sealine F43, F44 or maybe 420 Statesman
Fairline maybe a Phantom 38 or maybe 41/43

From what I can see all flybridge cruisers are pretty much the same in terms of layout, so it's fair to say almost any will meet our needs in that respect. The only "must have" feature we want is to be able to walk on the bathing platform from the cockpit and ideally, stairs to the flybridge as opposed to a ladder.

I do all the routine engine maintenance myself and any comments about the engine installation would be really handy to know. I really hate boat's that have filters, pumps, seacocks etc.... that are almost impossible to get at for servicing.

Any information or alternatives would be appreciated. If any of the boats mentioned have known problems, then I would be very keen to hear what they are!

Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...

Well there's quite a few differences between the boats you've already mentioned. The 440 for example is a 3 cabin boat and so is the F43 if the 3rd cabin was specified as an option. The F43 is an aft cabin boat whereas the others are aft cockpit boats. The 410 has a ladder to the flybridge and I think the Phantom 41/43 had one too
It's worth having a look at the Azimut 42 which I think ticks all your boxes and has 3 cabins and maybe the Fairline 43AC although there weren't many of those built. The Fairline Phantom 40/42 should be on your list too and, if you're lucky you might just get an early Fairline Squadron 43 for somewhere close to your budget. Although thats ladder access to the fly, the quality of the finish is appreciably better than the others
Of the boats you've mentioned, the 440 would be my favourite. Big boat (became the 460 later in it's life), great hull, 3 cabins, stairs to flybridge, easy access to bathing platform and still looks the dogs donuts IMHO. Find one with Cat 3208TA engines in good condition at a good price and it would be an excellent buy
 
asteven221 said:
Just had a search for Sunseekers. I could only find two flybridge boats for sale. One at £175k and one £199k. Gusss I will need to save up if I want a Sunseeker then!
Click to expand...

Sunseeker built far fewer flybridge boats than Fairline/Princess/Sealine in those days compared to open sports cruisers and IMHO, they're not very nice anyway. Sunseeker always seemed to build their flybridge yachts with poky saloons and huge cockpits which is the opposite of what you want for UK boating. One of their early models (Manhattan 48 I think) had problems getting on the plane and you will see these fitted with hull extensions aft
 
We have a customer with a 1998 Manhattan 48, with Cat's 3208. Very well build boat, very good enginebay (V-drive's so engine's are under the cockpit), nice saloon and 3 cabins!
It is indeed not as sporty as a Phantom 42 or Princess 40 but I fell in love with this boat....

Foto-TSOLOB34-G.jpg


I think this is the only one in Holland, there is only one other 46 with Detroits.


Foto-NPKYDLHU-G.jpg


This is the extended hull, like all the other Sunseekeres from the 90's...
 
there is one in Malta too 48 Manhattan, 1996 one owner since new, good condition and with the GMs Detroits 635hp good for 33/34 knots with a clean bum, I know the owner very well and he is interested to sell, if you are interested send a PM
I think she is the only one built with those engines altough offered on specs, not many 46/48 Manhattans well delivered about 20 I guess
if you are interested have also a Sunseeker 44 Manhattan with Cats from 1999
 
Just popped back to see what everyone is saying. Thanks again everyone. Good advice. There is always a temptation to go too big i.e. P460 etc.... but as there is basically only two of us on the boat 99% of the time I have to be sensible - which will be a first time according to my SWMBO. The P420 actually would appear to be ideal and at the right sort of money. The Sealines are definately interesting and I will look at them. The P440 is a cracking boat, but to me I would probably prefer to save cash and have a P420 as I can't see any appreciable difference for my needs. Three cabins are not important to me, but as long as other boxes are ticked and all other things being equal, I will take three cabins! Thanks for the offer to PM you re the Sunseekers for sale. Unfortunately, I am too lazy but more significantly don't have the time to go hunting all over Eurpoe for a boat. The UK and Ireland is my practical limit for travelling to see boats I am afraid! Thanks anyway.
 
no problem re 440 and 460, this is the same boat but with a bathing platform
420 was also renamed 430 with extended b/platform
for 2 people I would suggest looking at a Princess 40 too, or may be a Fairline 38 Phantom I think this size would be enough
both have a similar layout to the 420 albeit smaller in size....
 
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