Which Boat for World Cruising Liveaboard

[Fourbees]

You need a steel ketch

I have been researching the question of a boat for liveaboard world-girdling, and have reached the conclusion that you need a steel cutter-rigged ketch, not a GRP sloop. It's partly for the load carrying and robustness, plus the fact that anywhere in the world you can find a boatyard that can repair steel (not so aluminium or GRP). The cutter rigged ketch gives you an easily manageable sail plan with plenty of options for shortening sail, plus if you are dismasted you have another one to fall back on. As it happens, you can pick up such a vessel reasonably cheaply (look under YBW's boats for sale, using the keyword steel) - you could pick one up from £29K with lots of work to do, or for about £70K ready to go.

P.S. If you haven't read "Sell up and Sail" by Bill and Laurel Cooper, you should.

 

[Tradewinds]

I have been researching the question of a boat for liveaboard world-girdling, and have reached the conclusion that you need a steel cutter-rigged ketch, not a GRP sloop. It's partly for the load carrying and robustness, plus the fact that anywhere in the world you can find a boatyard that can repair steel (not so aluminium or GRP). The cutter rigged ketch gives you an easily manageable sail plan with plenty of options for shortening sail, plus if you are dismasted you have another one to fall back on. As it happens, you can pick up such a vessel reasonably cheaply (look under YBW's boats for sale, using the keyword steel) - you could pick one up from £29K with lots of work to do, or for about £70K ready to go.

P.S. If you haven't read "Sell up and Sail" by Bill and Laurel Cooper, you should.

Me & a load of others got it wrong then

 

[Tranona]

Yes, seems like your research is 20 or 30 years out of date. Of course a steel ketch is one alternative, but one chosen by only a tiny minority of people.

Guess it depends on whether you are the kind of person who wants to be prepared for every disaster, no matter how unlikely it is to occur, rather than the type of person who looks at the empirical evidence (that is what people actually do). If you are the latter then you would have no hesitastion in following the majority and buy a GRP sloop or the next most significant group and buy a GRP catamaran.

 

[Fourbees]

Ketches and sloops

Yes, seems like your research is 20 or 30 years out of date. Of course a steel ketch is one alternative, but one chosen by only a tiny minority of people.

Guess it depends on whether you are the kind of person who wants to be prepared for every disaster, no matter how unlikely it is to occur, rather than the type of person who looks at the empirical evidence (that is what people actually do). If you are the latter then you would have no hesitastion in following the majority and buy a GRP sloop or the next most significant group and buy a GRP catamaran.

I have nothing against GRP sloops - in fact I've got one (32 footer, too small and light for world-girdling). There are some bigger ones I really like - e.g. the Rustler 42, what a boat - encapsulated long fin keel, cutter rig, two heads, pilot berth, loads of room, heavy... But second hand ones are like hens' teeth. New they cost over £300K... whereas if I bought a steel ketch for say 70K, I could spend as much again fitting it out before the circumnavigation, and it would still be less than half the price of a new Rustler! Doesn't this make sense, or am I missing something?

 

[Neil_Y]

32' too small and light for world cruise, luxury I sailed a matchbox...

There are a few people who believe the vehicle is important, but many people attach more importance to just heading off in whatever they have or can afford. The most important factor in safety (I believe) is how you treat your boat, very few (if any) boats just fall to bits or break without help from the owner. The second most important thing is to go whilst you still can being younger and fitter also makes it far safer.

I've met many many people world cruising in anything from home built plywood, (French of course) grp production boats from 22' and bilge keelers, all safe and happy with their choice. They all made it through rough ocean weather.

If you were planning 20 years of limited maintenance permenant sailing exploring uncharted waters with rocks reefs and ice then there may be some argument for the need for the boat you describe, but personally I would be happy buying a boat for world criusing in many different materials and designs, it would take me less than two weeks to sort it for the world cruise and maybe code it for charter work and I'd be off.

My favourite world cruising boat so far has been a Bavaria, I've sailed Rival 38's, Twisters, Warrior 35, Westerly longbow, Sweden 38 and travelled on may more many thousands of miles both ocean and coastal.

 

[ytd]

I cruised in a steel boat. If you want to spend the first few days after you arrive somewhere chipping and painting, then get steel, otherwise get GRP. People often forget how fast steel rusts in the tropics and how easily paint chips from anchors, blocks, flogging sails, dropped tools, etc.

 

[Neil_Y]

I remember that well a friend/neighbour in the Azores had a lovely steel boat but he was always painting chips or lifting fittings where rust had started as the paint had cracked. As a long term cruiser he also had to keep an eye on the state of the inside paint work to prevent corrossion damage. I guess the problem with steel yachts is that the steel plate is much thinner than commercial vessels who can live with a few mm of corrossion?

 

[Sybarite]

http://www.meta-chantier-naval.fr/web/notre-histoire/histoire-du-strongall/

Strongall is the answer.

 

[bitman]

nice boat

If I was going world sailing I would prefer steel or ali. Saw a 56 foot ali cutter on ebay recently already geared for voyaging. Only £65,000. Item 150485946601

that's a very nice boat for the job!

 

[hairbox]

From my experience of boats, I have come to the conclusion that for long distance voyaging with big seas, directional stability is ESSENTIAL. Why? Because the last long keeler I had would log 8.5 -0 knts and the ground covered would be just that.

I now have a Fin and spade rudder and if I log 8.5 knots down wind, the ground covered will be at least 1 knot less (allowing for tide). I really had not appreciated this before. The long keeler required little steering down wind, the GPS track was straight. My Westerly Ocean lord (which has a long fin keel) was much more work (but very manageable) but looking at the GPS track it looked like a snake. I have also sailed a Bavaria 38 Holiday in a similar environment, and it was unmanageable in similar seas.....

So if you are ocean voyaging think about this important factor. If you are tootaling around the Med, then perhaps it is not so important.

What a load of old tosh, an open 60 is what you need fast light and can be sailed single handed don,t listen to all this get an old heavy tub that's like lets go back to horse drawn carts ha ha ha !!

 

[Sybarite]

Amel Sharki 39' : (not 36' as indicated in the ad.)

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=77226&url=

You won't have any preparation to do; all is in the standard specification. As well as that it's comforting to know that they are considered (virtually) unsinkable because they have watertight bulkheads. It’s a little bit more than you specified but then you look at cost rather than price. It is a make that holds its value very well so, low cost.

(PS Don't mention it to TwisterKen)

 

[mandlmaunder]

If you think you will be hitting rocks, docks and reefs then steel is the material for any one planning a world tour.
But the ultimate material for the rocks challenging cruiser is titanium, we saw a 60ish ft cat in Portugal 8 years ago built in Russia and planning a world cruise with 12 crew. It was the cheapest material available at the time in their area (decommissioned nuclear subs).
The material of your boat in this day and age is of less importance than actually using it to go sailing ASAP, IMO.

The sooner you start the sooner you will find that sweating the big stuff just makes you old and worried, and sundowners with like minded people keeps you young and excited.

Mark

 

[Tranona]

Doesn't this make sense, or am I missing something?

Yes, you are - the obvious! Big old steel boats are cheap for a reason - nobody wants them!

As others have pointed out they are high maintenance, often slow, heavy, many home built and sometimes idiosyncratic. Of course they are "strong" in the sense that they might survive a grounding better than other materials - but how many yachts ground? Look at what the vast majority of people who go "blue water" use - and it is not a cheap old steel ketch.

 

[Ludd]

Yes, you are - the obvious! Big old steel boats are cheap for a reason - nobody wants them!

As others have pointed out they are high maintenance, often slow, heavy, many home built and sometimes idiosyncratic. Of course they are "strong" in the sense that they might survive a grounding better than other materials - but how many yachts ground? Look at what the vast majority of people who go "blue water" use - and it is not a cheap old steel ketch.

Observed anchored off Bayona:
1)Nab 35 (mine)
2)Rasmus 35
3)Albin Vega
4)Tradewind 39
5)Biscay 36
6) massive ALI catamaran
7)Two one -off steel hard chine sloops
8)Converted wooden Belgian fishing boat(ketch rig)

Gone ahead: Oyster 37, Amel Maramu 2000, Rival 38,Naiad 400

They'll all get where they want to go.

Note: all either long keelers or long fin and skeg.

 

[Neil_Y]

I agree

hum so all the yachts that got to Barbados were fine albeit overloaded, yet no accidents, no problems but yet they're "dangerous". I wish this forum would stick to sensible advice rather than posturing.

And £30,000 to kit out a boat for cruising! £6,000 was enough to code the boat put up new standing rigging, buy a towed generator, ssb receiver, storm jib, inner forestay and sextant. I never felt we needed anything in over 10,000nm.

With two of us on a 40' Bav we were not overloaded and the boat was fast and safe, which included a Biscay crossing in November and a return trip via Azores with the usual patch of horrible stuff on the way back.

It is all about how you look after your boat in the rough stuff, be good to the boat and it will be good to you. Thrash it and it will start to fall apart. The hull material is of little consequence in most trade wind cruising, it is the moving bits that will fail and give you problems.

Whatever the boat, just get to know it and how all its bits work, you will have to repair things when a long way from a boat yard, sail maker or chandler, and have fun.

 

[Tranona]

Observed anchored off Bayona:
1)Nab 35 (mine)
2)Rasmus 35
3)Albin Vega
4)Tradewind 39
5)Biscay 36
6) massive ALI catamaran
7)Two one -off steel hard chine sloops
8)Converted wooden Belgian fishing boat(ketch rig)

Gone ahead: Oyster 37, Amel Maramu 2000, Rival 38,Naiad 400

They'll all get where they want to go.

Note: all either long keelers or long fin and skeg.

Interesting.... you will get a very different picture if you look at the entry for the ARC. Might say something about the available budget - nearly all of the boats you have listed can be bought for less than a new 32 footer. Suspect this has a bigger influence on choice than the style of boat - or maybe it is because that style of boat is almost impossible to buy new at any price!

 

[Ludd]

Interesting.... you will get a very different picture if you look at the entry for the ARC. Might say something about the available budget - nearly all of the boats you have listed can be bought for less than a new 32 footer. Suspect this has a bigger influence on choice than the style of boat - or maybe it is because that style of boat is almost impossible to buy new at any price!

I chose mine because I had no knowledge of yachts,but plenty of experience of ruff tuff fishingboats in ruff tuff weather! Rightly or wrongly,I cannot come to terms with the more extreme and "fragile" looking designs,but cost was a big factor. After 6 years,haven't changed my mind,and during that time I have sailed some others. You are right when you say it would be impossible to build at an affordable cost-----but may I point you towards the Northeaster 127,built in Colchester? Only ever seen one.

 

[sailorman]

Observed anchored off Bayona:
1)Nab 35 (mine)
2)Rasmus 35
3)Albin Vega
4)Tradewind 39
5)Biscay 36
6) massive ALI catamaran
7)Two one -off steel hard chine sloops
8)Converted wooden Belgian fishing boat(ketch rig)

Gone ahead: Oyster 37, Amel Maramu 2000, Rival 38,Naiad 400

They'll all get where they want to go.

Note: all either long keelers or long fin and skeg.

Oyster Heritage 37

 

[Tranona]

but may I point you towards the Northeaster 127,built in Colchester? Only ever seen one.

I suspect that is because I believe there is only one - built for the designer and now for sale.

If you want to go that route (and I wish I had the energy and money) then a call to Ed Burnett and a couple of hundred K's to somebody like Martin Brake would solve the problem. Design is already there, hanging on the main bulkhead of my Bavaria to remind me of what I might have had if I had not been (willingly) seduced by easy drifting around the Med. Maurice Griffiths "ideal boat" mid 1930's but never built. Just needs the other two characters to turn it into a workable boat.

 

[tcm]

hum lotta stuff to chew on here.

Easily the biggest issue is time and money. Almost any boat will do. I don't think it is valid to draw conclusions from which boats are still in Bayona and which aren't. I'm in las palmas at the moment, definitely one of the "right places to be at the moment" Cornell-wise, all sorts here.

Long term on a boat it needs to be stable at anchor. The more stable at anchor the nicer each day, the less of an issue is choosing where to anchor. So out with captainsensible in gib bay a few weeks ago on catameringue i just loosened the sail and got vaguly close to the anchorage, dropped 50m of chain easily half a mile offshore, boat swung round and can take sail down while some get lunch and one had a snooze. Actually, even on that day we probably sent more time at anchor than sailing...

Word of caution about ARC - those aren't all long-term liveaboards who have vair carefully selected their vessel! Lots bought what seemed right at coatal-centric uk or n european boat show.

The arc sells itself as "helping sailors take the next step in broadening their horizons" ie first-timers. So many altho not all are first-timers with (at last!) enough time to spare to do an atlantic circuit ... and loads of them do it just the once thankyou very much.

Once you get to the caribbean, get ready to be amazed at how many catamarans are there....and how most if not all the arcies (disproportionate number of high-maintenance blue hulls, teak decks, monohulls) who normaly go boating in northern europe ... head straight for the marina and stay there. Or sell up. Or get it delivery-skipered back.

Stingo sez if you liveaboard you sail less than one day in eight. Hence the catamaran. He's right. Loads less rolling downwind too. We're belting downwind at midteens sog and stingo is erm aren't we gonna broach? Three days later we all know we aren't gonna broach.

Actually, i think stingo actually does more beer-drinking than sailing so he might have been better with a 40foot fridge, but you get the point...