Neeves
Well-known member
I forget the answer - anyone confirm....
Jonathan
Jonathan
Which alloy of aluminium does Fortress use for its anchors
- Thread starter Neeves
- Start date
NormanS
Well-known member
You could always ask them. But anyway, who cares? As long as it does its job.
wonkywinch
Well-known member
Neeves
Well-known member
Thank you, I've done that it does not define WHICH magnesium alloy they use and I have an underlying feeling they don't use the 5000 series but the 6000 series.
I care, which is why I asked the question - and that's what PBO is for:
To allow an individual to ask a question on marine issues in the search for an answer
But thank you for reading the thread.
I will ask them, if I draw a blank here, and they might reply and confirm - but maybe someone actually knows. A reply here will put the detail in the public domain,
Jonathan
Binnacle
Active member
Presumably Fortress tested many different alloys before deciding on the "best" one ? If they don't want to make that information public (and have it copied), why is it important to you to put the detail in the public domain ? What use are you, in particular, going to put the alloy information to ?
If the Fortress alloy spec is the best they can invent, what other use apart from yet another anchor design, can the spec be used for ?
I think you are wrong to believe that PBO is here to find out (commercially confidential ?) information for your gratification.
If the Fortress alloy spec is the best they can invent, what other use apart from yet another anchor design, can the spec be used for ?
I think you are wrong to believe that PBO is here to find out (commercially confidential ?) information for your gratification.
wonkywinch
Well-known member
How about a search of the US Patent Office?
United States Patent and Trademark Office
Since they claim to be associated with the US Navy, I'd expect their recipe to be "secret".
United States Patent and Trademark Office
Since they claim to be associated with the US Navy, I'd expect their recipe to be "secret".
Neeves
Well-known member
I don't think the alloy specification is one that Fortress invented.
I don't know that it is commercially confidential. In fact I know 'Brian at Fortress' mentioned the alloy years ago - but I simply don't recall.
Binnacle
Active member
Brian left Fortress about 4 or 5 years ago. I'd expect continuing design and development to have taken place since then.
Neeves
Well-known member
Yes, you are correct.
The business was put up for sale but I understand there were no takers and the son of the owner, who owns a number of businesses (including one building drones) took over running the business. This all occurred at the same time as Lewmar entered the market with a potential competitor to Fortress. I believe the move to drones was a success and resulted in some sort of contract with the US Government. Lewmar's entry to market does not seem to have created many waves (but might have resulted in 'continuing design and development'). Interestingly there has been no criticism of Lewmar's copying of Fortress. But then I understand Lewmar are part of a bigger organisation focussed at 4x4s - so maybe Fortress copies are not top of the agenda.
Brian was recruited to a rapidly growing business, I think based in Europe, focussed at computer controlled marine electronics specifically targeting at large leisure vessel docking.
Jonathan
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
Not sure of the relevance of that to anything here. Other than, i suppose, you being able to listen to the sound of your keyboard, which does seem to ba one of your greatest passions.
noelex
Well-known member
6061
sarabande
Well-known member
Oh Neeves, a rather garrulous answer with some possibly confidential info. Doesn't answer your question about the alloy, though.
Irish Rover
Well-known member
Deleted
Neeves
Well-known member
Thank you.
So it was not confidential at all.
I think you are dreaming - but then dreams are free.
Fortress was introduced in the late 1980s and has remained virtually unchanged since, other than the use of the mud flaps. The big cost for Fortress are the dies for the extrusions and the extrusions themselves. In aluminium terms they are a tiny production run and the dies extortionate. The Bulldog was introduced as a competitor to the Fortress and was made and sold by one of Fortress' European distributors. This forced Fortress into making a cheap alternative, unanodised (they anodise locally in Florida) the Guardian. The Bulldog did not last.
Something of a competitor is Manson's Racer - but it is welded and anodised in a rather tasteful electric blue. As the name suggests it was designed specifically for racing yachts - but has use as a kedge. I don't think it comes in large sizes.
Slight drift - I was at the Sydney Boat Show on Thursday and saw not one Epsilon but one of the new Rocna's in stainless steel. Most of the MoBos carried Ultras and the yachts - gal Deltas (or copies). Fleming motor yachts (a large traditional design, highly desirable) carried an Ultra and large Fortress (assembled) on twin bow rollers. The Fortress is hardly a thing of beauty but on a Fleming, which are quite large, not an anchor to lug around the deck if you need it.
It will be interesting to learn the impact of Epsilon at Southhampton.
Concluding - I'm a big fan of Fortress, innovative concept. Exceptional in mud (stands head and shoulders above anything else), great as a kedge and if you need to dinghy an anchor from the mother yacht. Not expensive, if you buy in the USA (its light and small enough for 'our' size of yacht to carry back as checked in luggage). As a second anchor - must be on everyone's list.
The 6061 and anodising seems to work well stories of corrosion are notable by their absence - except you need to use Duralac for the stainless bolts as if stored assembled and in a damp locker there is corrosion at the bolts and they can seize.
One down side - if used as part of a web of anchors to secure from a storm the anchor can set so deeply as to be irretrievable.They merit buoying from the crown
Again thank you Noelex.
Jonathan
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Neeves
Well-known member
There is nothing confidential there. Its all common knowledge (and largely repeated to me at the Sydney Boat Show on Thursday, including the drone contract). Brian Sheehan was the contact at Dockmate in their Press Releases. Part of the background for the potential sale was to free up money for the drone development. Again common knowledge but in the event unnecessary as they won a contract anyway.
But someone, somewhere will answer the specific question - YBW or PBO and some of its members are marvellous support.
My ego is small - I really don't imagine for one second I have access to any confidential information as implied - but take it is a compliment that you might think so
. Sorry to disappoint.Jonathan
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sarabande
Well-known member
I did not think you had confidential information. In fact it's clear you didn't, or you would not have asked the question. I can't imagine any leading anchor manufacturer sharing al the design and spec details. Try asking Peter Smith if he will send you the details of the old or the new CMP Rocnas.
And, Neeves, Fortress does undertake design and development changes.
FYI, and in case you need any questions for the sailing section of a pub quiz, the colours of the Fortress name in the shank are as follows:
Black – between 1986-1996 (approx.)
Blue – between 1996 – 2006 (approx.)
Red – between 2006 and currently.
The parts extruder has changed their extrusion process as indicated above and the colours have been changed to indicate which warranty replacement parts will fit the anchor. Hence if you ask for replacement parts, the office will request to know the colour of the name "Fortress". You're incorrect in saying the anchors are virtually unchanged since first introduced.
And, Neeves, Fortress does undertake design and development changes.
FYI, and in case you need any questions for the sailing section of a pub quiz, the colours of the Fortress name in the shank are as follows:
Black – between 1986-1996 (approx.)
Blue – between 1996 – 2006 (approx.)
Red – between 2006 and currently.
The parts extruder has changed their extrusion process as indicated above and the colours have been changed to indicate which warranty replacement parts will fit the anchor. Hence if you ask for replacement parts, the office will request to know the colour of the name "Fortress". You're incorrect in saying the anchors are virtually unchanged since first introduced.
vyv_cox
Well-known member
In fact this information is available. Rocna, Mantus, Delta, Bugel have all released materials information for their products. Most of it can be found in my book Metals in Boats
I totally disagree with the suggestion that there is no place for this information on the forum. Anyone who remembers the 'bent shank Rocna' saga will be aware that internet pressure caused the truth to come out and ultimately led to the takeover of the company by CMP and a complete rethink of the materials.
Similarly, the original shanks on Mantus anchors were shown to be insufficiently strong thanks to forum discussion. Mantus upgraded the material to their credit before any incidents occurred.
NormanS
Well-known member
Has there been any credible suggestion that there is anything wrong with the Fortress design or construction?
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Certainly not that I am aware of. It is a 'flat' anchor with the disadvantages that are inherent in the design but otherwise has an excellent reputation. Neeves simply asked for a reminder of its material of construction.
Neeves
Well-known member
The FX-37 is Green, the FX-23 is Red
I already have a complete set of original Rocna drawings, signed off by Peter Smith, + drawings for their swivel (that never eventuated). I am hoping I do not ever need the new Rocna (with the flat roll bar and profiled machined shank) drawings.
I believe with the correct kit you can make exact copies of any 3D shapes, and anchors are quite simple, with the correct camera and a 3D printer. A CF member, I recall called 'Napoleon', made up exact drawings for Mantus 5-7 years ago.
It was you who suggested that I was divulging 'possibly confidential info'....and now you say ....'I did not think you had confidential information.'
It all seems a bit contradictory;. I wish you would offer clarity what point you are trying to make.
and get the colours of Fortress correct (a pub quiz may depend on the accuracy of the information you provide )Jonathan