Which 50ft boat would you buy?

[Nigelpickin]

Quote VolvoPaul "I've just spent 4 days on a Sealine T50 2007 model, fabulous boat, slept eat and drove it most of the weekend.
When friend was buying we discussed in great detail, 100k cheaper than a P50.
P50 a great boat but I'd have the Sealine and £100K in something else, great handling powerful and drove like a sports boat."

will the real volvopaul please come back

PS mine averaged 0.76mpg at 22Knots on a 40 mile run this week, can any 50 foot IPS boat do that ? Its just about to go over 1300 hours and feels like it is just about run in.

Yup, easily
My p500 will often do 5lts per mile at cruising speed
1.4 ltrs per mile at 7.5kts
2.2 ltrs per mile at 9kts
From 17kts to 25kts we will achieve between 5 and 6 litres per mile. If I play with the tabs and revs I can usually achieve around .9 mpg.


That's based on the 1000 mile trip we've done this season, (three year old boat). And a full tank of water and gas btw....

But it's a light boat otherwise....

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

anyone got any experience of weight of boats? must be pros/cons for heavier/lighter boats. I guess heavier boats are more stable (not a problem if having a gyro installed) and less prone to be being blown in the wind? Lighter boats more fuel economical?

Depends what you mean by stable. A heavier boat won't necessarily roll less but may plough through a head sea better than a lighter boat and overall give a more planted ride at sea. Obviously it also depends where that heavier weight is concentrated as well. A heavy boat with a high superstructure may feel less secure than a lighter boat with a low superstructure. The only way you're going to find out what you like is to make sure you sea trial any boats you are considering before you buy. And yes generally speaking lighter boats are more economical but don't get too hung up on fuel costs. When you're spending the best part of a million quid on a boat whether you spend an extra grand a year on fuel is neither here nor there. What counts is whether you really like the boat and if you really want to save a few quid on fuel just drive it a bit slower

Personally I prefer a heavier boat to a lighter boat and I prefer shaftdrive to IPS for similar reasons. I like the feeling of the boat ploughing through the sea rather than skipping over the top and I like the fact that heavier boats are blown around less in a marina but then I'm a luddite so best not take any notice of me!

 

[kashurst]

Heavier built boats tend to imply strength and well made etc, Not necessarily so any more, it depends on who built it and who designed it. However on the plus side heavy weight boats ride well as they can push bigger waves aside without loosing momentum. All mono hulls roll at anchor if there are waves etc. A heavier boat will tend to roll more slowly than a lighter built boat. But with a gyro problem solved.

I find over the years its a lot of little things that make one boat better than another. Often the simpler something is the easier it is to use as an owner and for whoever is going to service it, the more reliable its likely to be. Its easy to get drawn to the high end finish of the sunseekers etc and the ever increasing use of electronic integrated controls. But have a real long think about how you will use the boat, small children running about on board spilling things etc. People in swimming cossies dripping seawater everywhere. You don´t want to spend your time stressing about getting something scratched or damaged. how often you will go more than 20 miles in it, what sort of sea state do you want to go through, how long do you anticipate keeping it. How often will you anchor, anyone else got any thoughts on these lines?

 

[September Seven]

Depending if you prefer Sports or flybridge, I have started this season with a Prestige 500s (2011) having had a Portofino 47 (2008) and I love it for lots of reasons, the real interest for me was the separate stairway to the owners cabin, large windows and flybridge type layout on a sports boat. My last 2 boats having the traditional sports layout upstairs ie icemaker, griddle, wetbar which I never used and canvas that made winter use limited. Both use D600 IPS but the 500s being lighter. The downside is whilst you get a lot of boat for your money the finish is decidedly French (you know the old expression" there are 3 ways to do a job, the right way, the wrong way, and the French way) the fittings, cabinets and general finish is not as good as the Portofino and there are several design issues that need refining etc To me the accommadation is very important and this ticks all my boxes.

 

[Nick_H]

Often the simpler something is the easier it is to use as an owner and for whoever is going to service it, the more reliable its likely to be. Its easy to get drawn to the high end finish of the sunseekers etc and the ever increasing use of electronic integrated controls. But have a real long think about how you will use the boat, small children running about on board spilling things etc. People in swimming cossies dripping seawater everywhere. You don´t want to spend your time stressing about getting something scratched or damaged. how often you will go more than 20 miles in it, what sort of sea state do you want to go through, how long do you anticipate keeping it. How often will you anchor, anyone else got any thoughts on these lines?

Amen to all that ?

 

[kashurst]

"Yup, easily
My p500 will often do 5lts per mile at cruising speed
1.4 ltrs per mile at 7.5kts
2.2 ltrs per mile at 9kts
From 17kts to 25kts we will achieve between 5 and 6 litres per mile. If I play with the tabs and revs I can usually achieve around .9 mpg."
I´m impressed, you read so many reports on IPS boats and when you look at the fuel consumption it never seems anything special, sometimes its worse. Good to hear it works well for your (very nice) boat.

 

[kashurst]

a few more things to consider;´

engine and generator access - can you get all around them and top and bottom?

fuel tanks - is there an inspection hatch and a balancing pipe and valve?

anchor - look for an anchor roller on the deck surface, with the anchor lowered over the front of the bow. Then you can put on an anchor twice the size the manufacturer supplied and of a design that works in your area.

laminate or wood flooring - looks good when its new but goes dull with sun sea and sand. Its slippery when wet too! carpets better but don´t go for white or cream and get overcarpets made that you can take out and clean properly.

Venetian blinds - pig to clean

touch screen control panels that you cant read in bright sunshine, with tiny icons you can´t touch reliably when the boat is moving.

integrated electronic control systems where you need to go through 5 menus to turn off a bilge pump alarm

and a personal thing -some models of vhf radios, why cant they just have a simple ON/OFF button, switch thing.

 

[Nigelpickin]

"Yup, easily
My p500 will often do 5lts per mile at cruising speed
1.4 ltrs per mile at 7.5kts
2.2 ltrs per mile at 9kts
From 17kts to 25kts we will achieve between 5 and 6 litres per mile. If I play with the tabs and revs I can usually achieve around .9 mpg."
I´m impressed, you read so many reports on IPS boats and when you look at the fuel consumption it never seems anything special, sometimes its worse. Good to hear it works well for your (very nice) boat.

It's fair to say that we only run with the two of us and that ours is the sports top, so lighter than the fly.
Agree with what is being said by both yourself and Mike.fuel consumption is low on the list for us in terms of ownership cost.
We are cruising with friends who have an 8kt preference, so we've learned a lot about what an IPS boat feels like at displacement speed.
As with most unstabized boats, beam, head or following seas are fine, that won't change too much by the weight of the boat, it does not plough through the oggin' and feels quite skittish, which is fine but id prefer a big heavy bow cutting through.
We compensate by running with full water tanks, that adds 1k kilos to the front end and it does make a difference.

Couldn't agree more about white carpets!! What the flip?

As we are cruising with a Trader alongside our Prestige, it's the quality of components, esp composites, wood and steel that we feel really stand out on their boat. That's really got the hankering for a Nordhavn 52 peaking at present....
Typical boat owners, never happy with what we've got!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I find over the years its a lot of little things that make one boat better than another. Often the simpler something is the easier it is to use as an owner and for whoever is going to service it, the more reliable its likely to be. Its easy to get drawn to the high end finish of the sunseekers etc and the ever increasing use of electronic integrated controls. But have a real long think about how you will use the boat, small children running about on board spilling things etc. People in swimming cossies dripping seawater everywhere. You don´t want to spend your time stressing about getting something scratched or damaged. how often you will go more than 20 miles in it, what sort of sea state do you want to go through, how long do you anticipate keeping it. How often will you anchor, anyone else got any thoughts on these lines?

Excellent advice. Yup I do stress myself out about other people damaging my boat so for me its important to have finishes that can be repaired and that means if possible steering clear of high gloss finishes and as you say in your other post having carpets rather than wooden floors. Also agree entirely on integrated electronic controls for the boats systems. Touch screens have no place in a car let alone a boat and the thought of say not being able to switch a bilge pump on or empty the holding tank because the screen's gone blank fills me with horror. I sort of agree with you on seakeeping in that the vast majority of the time we just cruise to the nearest anchorage and drop the hook but at the same time inevitably every boater gets caught out some time in conditions he'd rather not be in. For me that doesn't necessarily mean having a boat which is the last word in bluewater ocean cruising but having a boat that can handle itself in the rough. For me that means good helm ergonomics, good helm seat and good visibility from the helm because the one thing you do need to feel when the sea conditions deteriorate is that you are in control. The other important factor for me is that I don't want bits of furniture flying around, fridges losing their contents and TVs crashing to the deck so that means drawers and cupboards with positive locks, fridge doors with positive locks, solid doors with good hinges and latches, good fiddles on tops and ceiling/wall panels that are properly secured rather than just velcro'd

 

[TonyR123]

interesting points of view - keep them coming!

in terms of use. Majority of the time (short term) will be leaving in the morning and anchoring at a cove in the south of Mallorca (boat will be moored at Portals). Once moored a day of snorkelling, paddle boarding off in the tender, seabob (maybe), etc. Have lunch, few beers during the day and come home.

TBH I am not that bothered if something gets scratched/knocked. It is there to be used.

When I have more time will intend to go around the island, off to Ibiza, etc.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

I am in the market for a Manhattan 50. I have heard something along this lines your are mentioning me before could you clarify what this means in practice please ? Thx

In practice it means high bow angle even at slow speeds, which means small waterline while underway, and more slamming then normal if waves happen to be longer then the waterline while going on at 20 knots.

 

[Due South]

In practice it means high bow angle even at slow speeds, which means small waterline while underway, and more slamming then normal if waves happen to be longer then the waterline while going on at 20 knots.

I've had my man 50 a few months now and don't believe this is a noticeable problem although I haven't been out in any other 50's to compare it to.
Jrudge, have you not found one yet?

 

[kashurst]

"I've had my man 50 a few months now and don't believe this is a noticeable problem although I haven't been out in any other 50's to compare it to." --- forget about it, Sunseeker have been making boats for a long time, I think they know what they are doing. Enjoy your lovely boat. Every boat is different in some way. They all have some sort of compromise one way or another. And its often clear on here that ones persons idea of a good handling boat is not the same as someone else´s. Sometimes its just down to loading and trim.

 

[Latestarter1]

I'd be looking at the Prestige 550 that Ancasta have on brokerage, (it was a part ex).
Nice boat - although it's on Zeus IPS which is less attractive than the Volvo equivelent, and that's what would put me off the 550 or 560 as the face lift version is called.

What makes you come to that conclusion?

 

[volvopaul]

What makes you come to that conclusion?

It's volvos IPS that gets all the bad press not the cummins system along with the D6 engines terrible cooling system design with leaking fuel coolers that are a throw away item just because Volvo market it that way.

 

[Nigelpickin]

What makes you come to that conclusion?

Ive had Zeus out drives and Volvo IPS, also been on a Zeus POD boat. Both systems work very well and the smartcraft interface is probably better than Volvo EVC, esp as they throw in Skyhook for 'free'. But it's clunky and in my experience a little buggy. The Volvo system is far smoother and I've never had a failure or spilt a cup of coffee while using the Volvo system.

I'm not sure that the fuel efficiency is as good on the Cummins/Zeus system, versus the Volvo but I've not had like for like experience with that so it would be unfair to say that anything more that anecdotal conjecture...

I'm sure that the Zeus Smartcraft has been updated regularly so it's bound to have improved....

 

[kashurst]

going back to the original post, from the list then;
if money is not a problem I would go for the Princess, but they are so lovely I wouldn´t want to get it wet or even put it in the sea
but the yorkshireman in me would go for the Prestige, style, speed. economy, clever use of space. and in boating terms very good value for money.

 

[Portofino]

had not thought about the large windows and aircon. Something else to bear in mind!

anyone got any experience of weight of boats? must be pros/cons for heavier/lighter boats. I guess heavier boats are more stable (not a problem if having a gyro installed) and less prone to be being blown in the wind? Lighter boats more fuel economical?

Might fly over to cannes boat show as most boats seem to be on show there.

I would do that -Cannes . They are all on the water.Its a bit more relaxed in the sence you can tramp all over inc the bow area and Engine room .They also do sea trials. -organised in groups of a dozen or so ,or ad hoc if you're serious .
Everbody that,s anybody in the Med scene will have there 50 ftrs on display.
Wieght - needs more Hp .Either supped up for a given cubic capacity -read stressed or highly developed or just plane old
Quote Americans " there aint no substitute for cubes "
My inclination would be go for a shaft MAN , CAT , MTU orCummins powered 12-13 L-
KIS Keep It Simple .
If you are time critical = less down time ,more predictable , think 5-7years down the line re resale / residuals .

 

[TonyR123]

Cannes now booked! Looks like every boat I think I am interested in (and more) is there. Before Cannes another long weekend on my current 36ft.

Interesting comments on pod drives Cummins v Volvo. In fact a lot of comments in general from people with far more experience than I, so once again I appreciate people's input!

I currently have shafts and whilst I am confident enough driving the boat I thought, from reading prior to posting, that parking a pod boat is even easier. I have based this on reading various articles. I have never driven a pod boat and would have to do this and compare it to shafts with all thrusters and joystick to form my own opinion.

Unfortunately test driving a boat is not quite as easy as test driving a car! Hopefully Cannes can narrow it down to 2 or 3 and can hopefully take those for a spin. Interesting that some have gone from a 40 ft to a 65 ft boat. That is quite a jump and not one I think I could do. Maybe the visit to Cannes will change that point of view.

 

[Steruth1]

Cannes now booked! Looks like every boat I think I am interested in (and more) is there. Before Cannes another long weekend on my current 36ft.

Interesting comments on pod drives Cummins v Volvo. In fact a lot of comments in general from people with far more experience than I, so once again I appreciate people's input!

I currently have shafts and whilst I am confident enough driving the boat I thought, from reading prior to posting, that parking a pod boat is even easier. I have based this on reading various articles. I have never driven a pod boat and would have to do this and compare it to shafts with all thrusters and joystick to form my own opinion.

Unfortunately test driving a boat is not quite as easy as test driving a car! Hopefully Cannes can narrow it down to 2 or 3 and can hopefully take those for a spin. Interesting that some have gone from a 40 ft to a 65 ft boat. That is quite a jump and not one I think I could do. Maybe the visit to Cannes will change that point of view.

Like Nigel I have a 500 but flybridge version, I'm based in Cala D'or which can be quite tight when berthing especially if the wind is blowing, the ips is brilliant and gives you massive confidence to the point swmbo is now almost berthing on her own after only being on it twice.
We have had no real issues from new so it's a pretty well put together boat, people say the finish isn't what a Ss princess etc but it's probably also half the cost.
My view when choosing a prestige was on time aboard, average 6 weeks a year / against 600k for a prestige or 900k for a Ss
For me 300k extra just wasn't worth it, but each to their own I'm sure.
Good luck and enjoy the hunt.