Where to go next year: Ionian or Croatia?

[SlowlyButSurely]

We are currently wintering in Spain and are planning to go to the Balearics and then Sardinia next year but can't decide where to winter next year, Croatia or the Ionian. We would appreciate opinions on the merits of each.
All contributions gratefully received.

 

[Carmel2]

Both can be cold and wet if that makes a difference to you...

 

[jordanbasset]

Not overwintered there but have heard good reports about Marina de Ragussa. I realise it is not Croatia or Greece but perhaps another option to consider and only a couple of three jumps to the Ionian or Croatia for the following season.

 

[syneraida]

My wife and I are currently in Marina Hannibal, Monfalcone (Italy), I know not Croatia but I work here, so makes sense. Anyway, If you're planning on living aboard for the winter I would recommend going further south, Croatia and the Northern Adriatic can be cold and wet and the Bora can be pretty fierce. It's not all bad, but if you'r not well kitted out for a winter down below I would stay further south. If you're just storing the boat the winter fees up this end of the adriatic are very good (cheap).

 

[Mistroma]

My wife and I are currently in Marina Hannibal, Monfalcone (Italy), I know not Croatia but I work here, so makes sense. Anyway, If you're planning on living aboard for the winter I would recommend going further south, Croatia and the Northern Adriatic can be cold and wet and the Bora can be pretty fierce. It's not all bad, but if you'r not well kitted out for a winter down below I would stay further south. If you're just storing the boat the winter fees up this end of the adriatic are very good (cheap).

Their website ask you to contact them for a quote and I'm usually suspicious of places where that is the norm. Any idea of approx. how much they charge for a 6 month stay on the hard (incl. lift in/out, wash and storage)? Don't go to any trouble, just wondering if you already knew roughly how much they'd charge. Do marinas in that area allow short stay on the boat in the yard and allow you to do your own maint. work?

 

[Tranona]

Good range of choices in the Ionian for either living aboard or laying up for the winter. Two large marinas on Corfu and Levkas both with a liveaboard community. smaller and more remote marina at Messolonghi and good yards around Preveza. plenty of information in Heikell. Sensible to arrive mid season, suss out the different options while cruising the area.

 

[sailaboutvic]

There a few question you need to think about before deciding where your going to winter out .
A are you going to live on board or are you just going to park the boat .
B if you are going to stay on board do you want to live in a community with other Liveaboards or are you happy to be on your own .
C if you plain to live aboard how often to you want to visit home or fly else where .
D what is you budget for your winter Marina .
Croatia is a lovely country to cruise but the Marina are expenses and it can be wet and cold in the winter .
Corfu does have a winter deal but the flights stop after Oct so getting back can be a bit of a trip and there not much if any of a Liveaboard community there over the winter also very wet .
Lefkes there a nice small friendly Liveaboard community ,
the Marina do winter deals it's a good place to winter out but once again it can be very wet and if you need to fly home after Oct , it's a Six hour bus ride to Athen and another Hour to the airport .
Just to park your boat and go home Pervez is very favourable which most people .
For better weather it has to be Crete , it has a good Liveaboard communitybut the Marina get booked up early again flight back home can be a pain but if you not planning to fly home or just once it isn't that bad .( Tony Cross ) is the man to ask about Crete , not much he doesn't know about the place .
Sicily ,
Over the last five year Sicily has become a favour with live aboard with two Marina springing up Licata and Ragusa ,
The weather here is mild normally .
Jan when it changes , the rain arrives although you can still have very good weather in between the raining and windy days .
we had experiences with both Marina .
It has to be said both Marina are very safe as far as weather are concern ,
Licata has a lively town , chandlers and a large super market just next to the Marina but it has the biggest problem of fouling I have seen in 38 years of sailing and that for me lets the Marina down badly .
The Marina can supply a dive the cost was 120 Euros for a quick clean he down for 30 mins and as for us who clean our boats under water know there not much cleaning you can do in 30 mins on a clean boat let a lone a badly foul one .
Marina Di Ragusa which is the cheepers of the two , not by much ,
is set in a much small seaside town but with plenty of shops a small walk away , three supermarkets two bakery two butcher plenty of bars and takeaway ,
with it fresh water spring in the Marina fouling isn't a problem if anything it helps to keep the boats clean .
hold out in both the Sicilian Marina isn't cheap plus there no staying on board and working on your own boat is a no go although I think one of the boat yard in Licata will let you .
There three airport open all year Cosmo which is very close to Ragusa , Catania two hour bus ride from Ragusa three from Licata and Palermo which is quite a bus ride from both Marina .
Off cause there also Malta .
Weather is much the same as Sicily , everyone speaks English , the large super market sell English products .
There are quite a few marinas , one Misda will let you have a berth on a monthly rate , this year for 12 mts it was around 450 euros , the Liveaboard community have moved away to Sicily although there alway a few you can nearly get everything you need on the islands , chandler in all the boating places .
Manuel island yacht yard are very good for hauling out , there will let you live on board and work on the work , they have good work shops in the yard .
Flight from Malta are cheap to the UK and you can fly to most of Europe
Leaving you with just one thought , when pricing up what Marina charges are going to cost don't forget to work out the cost of traveling to and from airport , it can add. Big amount on the winter stop over .

Lots to think about but you have nine moths to decide .

 

[syneraida]

Their website ask you to contact them for a quote and I'm usually suspicious of places where that is the norm. Any idea of approx. how much they charge for a 6 month stay on the hard (incl. lift in/out, wash and storage)? Don't go to any trouble, just wondering if you already knew roughly how much they'd charge. Do marinas in that area allow short stay on the boat in the yard and allow you to do your own maint. work?

I cant give you figures for the winter as we have a annual contract which includes storage ashore, but for a 55ft boat it works out about 500 EURO/month including VAT (winter months only is cheaper i believe), all electric is free as is water. A lift out, pressure washing of the hull and usage of a yard cradle for time out of the water and re-launch works out about 1500 EURO (again for 55ft boat). It's not that cheap for a haul out, but the price drops considerable (I believe) as boat length reduces.

Doing your own maintenance is not a problem as long as you keep everything tidy and put down plenty of sheeting below the boat. Equally there's a very good mechanic in the yard and all other work can be done as well, but be warned asking the yard to do the work can become very expensive, I believe they charger 38 EURO/person/hour inc VAT, also if you want to antifoul the boat buy the paint outside of Italy (i'd recommend SVB24.com), for some reason all paint is extorsionately expensive in Italy.

Officially you can not stay onboard whilst the boat is out of the water, but this is Italy and i'm sure a short period wouldn't be noticed . Also they do have small chalets with bunk beds that you can rent per day if you just need a couple of days. If you want a apartment for one or two months you will struggle, Italian bureaucracy makes short term rentals very difficult, the shortest you're likely to get is 6 months, otherwise your best bet is to try AIRBNB.

 

[charles_reed]

Not much to choose weatherwise between either.
Winter is wet, cold and uncomfortable if you intend to live aboard.
I'd not consider Croatia - it's very expensive for long-term berthing, but the 3 marinas in Monfalcone are reasonably priced and Easyjet flights back to the UK convenient and inexpensive.
The normally quoted marinas (Gouvia, Levkas et al) are expensive, but will have a modicum of Anglophone liveaboards.
For me Kalamata was enjoyable and easy enough for travel.

I'm now in the Aegean and prices, sailing and numbers of anchorages make the two areas quoted bad-taste jokes - though inflation in Turkey has pushed prices up, expressed in £ sterling they're still fairly economical.
Most Aegean liveaboards have a rented winter accommodation and put the boat on the hard, not so easy and more expensive in the Adriatic.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Would Kalamata have a warmer winter climate judged against Athens area

 

[Metabarca]

Other yards in Monfalcone are available: Ocean, Nautec, Crackboat... Hannibal and Nautec have a bar and restaurant, while the others are more basic, but all offer much cheaper storage than Croatia, and take better care of the boat and you.
If it helps for comparison, I paid €800 for haul out and launch, cleaning of hull and storage on the hard for approx. 8 weeks. 32 ft yacht. You could give Claudio Gardossi a buzz by email on info@crackboat.it if you're interested, and say I (Lucian) recommended him.

 

[Carmel2]

Would Kalamata have a warmer winter climate judged against Athens area

Yes, I was in Athens a few days ago and it was bitter and snowing hard, now back in Kalamata and its a lot warmer.

 

[Jamesuk]

Croatia - Marina Dalmatia is good Zadar Airport
Corfu, Greece - Gouvia Marina is excellent (Google Bob Sutcliffe) but winter flights are poor Easyjet upto 9th November then you fly via Athens to get home.
Malta - Grand Harbour Marina is very good and flights are year round
Montenegro (half way house) Excellent facilities, Skiing in the mountains and great food with lots to do. Diesel is Cheap!

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

Thanks very much for all the replies. This has given us lots to think about!

 

[jimbaerselman]

Would Kalamata have a warmer winter climate judged against Athens area

A little. Minimum temperatures 1 Dec - 28 Feb: Lowest, very rarely below -2 degrees, not enough to kill lemon trees! Normal winter minima are +4C , maxima +19C (+/- 4C) and Kalamata is usually higher by 1C. Sun's a degree higher in the sky!

www.wunderground.com/history/ is a great source for looking at historic averages over periods of time for various locations. For instance, over those 3 months: Corfu - 51 days with rain; Kalamata - 45 days; Athens 32.

Kalamata has buses to Athens, 3hr 30min, about eight a day, more frequent in summer. And in season, flights direct to UK - including squeezy-jet. Good yacht support.

For really cheap live-aboard wintering afloat, consider Pylos "marina". No costs last year. Mind you, water and electricity call for some ingenuity, and the live aboard community is likely to be you - maybe with one or two transients! A few ex-pat owners keep boats there.

 

[macd]

There a few question you need to think about before deciding...

Agree with much of what you wrote, Vic (and a very happy new year, BTW), but flights from Corfu to UK are year-round with Aegean, albeit via Athens during the winter months. Just checked on Skyscanner, and price for a return trip, booked one month ahead, is around £200. Total journey time approx 7 to 9 hours.

Ditto Agios Nikolaos, Crete. It's 80 minutes and €7 on the bus to Heraklion airport, but flight prices and overall times are similar to Corfu. (We spent the last two winters in Finike, over 100km from the nearest airport, so I daresay we're a bit more tolerant than some of long airport drives.)

Incidentally, the layout on Aegean Airlines aircraft is really weird. It actually includes legroom :encouragement:

In general, warm Med winters is an oxymoron, but southern Turkey was more than bearable, and Crete is shaping up to be similar, touch wood.