Where can I get battery monitor shunt leads made?

Poey50 said:
Just on tinned versus welding cable, Jeff Cote of Pacific Yacht Systems warns that the insulation on welding cable is not resistant - or as resistant - to diesel as marine specified cable. I don't know how valid this is but worth researching if you are doing a lot.
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Nigel Calder used to recommend welding cables for locations of high vibration, due to its flexibility, resulting from its fine multi-strand construction and soft sheath. However, he has retracted that recommendation in the latest edition of his book because the fine strands wick up moisture and the sheath on some welding cable can be dissolved by diesel. So that backs up Jeff Cote's warning.
 
HissyFit said:
Nigel Calder used to recommend welding cables for locations of high vibration, due to its flexibility, resulting from its fine multi-strand construction and soft sheath. However, he has retracted that recommendation in the latest edition of his book because the fine strands wick up moisture and the sheath on some welding cable can be dissolved by diesel. So that backs up Jeff Cote's warning.
Click to expand...

Nigel Calder is a journalist, not an expert.
 
pvb said:
Nigel Calder is a journalist, not an expert.
Click to expand...
He came to writing through his experience of boat systems, not the other way round, starting as a diesel mechanic. What he writes is either as a result of his direct experience or from taking his advice from experts. Whether his advice is from experience or from the advice of others, I would rate it over anything unattributable. I found it useful to backup Poey50's reference. If you've got anything of authority that definitively contradicts these points then please post. Note: I'm not holding my breath.
 
HissyFit said:
He came to writing through his experience of boat systems, not the other way round, starting as a diesel mechanic. What he writes is either as a result of his direct experience or from taking his advice from experts. Whether his advice is from experience or from the advice of others, I would rate it over anything unattributable. I found it useful to backup Poey50's reference. If you've got anything of authority that definitively contradicts these points then please post. Note: I'm not holding my breath.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm reminded of the article Nigel Calder wrote in Yachting Monthly, December 2001, in which he warned us that our boats are in danger of spontaneously combusting due to our lousy wiring. Why? Because he claimed that using stainless steel washers in bolted connections “puts a relatively high resistance in the circuit”. How high? According to Calder, it’s so incredibly high that it “seriously impairs the performance of the equipment” and, worse still, “creates a lot of heat - more than enough in many high-current circuits to start a fire”.

This was complete and utter b*ll*cks, and I told YM it was.

YM took the trouble to ask Nigel Calder to justify his claims, and he came back with more ridiculous scare-mongering, this time about the plastic in fuseholders softening and causing the bolted connection to become loose and cause a fire, and Nigel told us that “Zytel, apparently a common fuse holder plastic, softens at 130 degrees centigrade”. This is totally untrue!

Zytel glass-filled PA66 nylon softens at around 250 C (depending on the percentage of glass reinforcement), roughly twice the temperature Nigel claimed! The excellent heat resistance of Zytel is one of the reasons why it’s specified for good quality fuse holders (such as those made by Blue Sea). Incidentally, as the plastic insulation on high quality marine cable is only rated at 105 C, won’t the cable melt and cause a problem long before a Zytel fuse holder softens? It was also generally untrue for Nigel to say that if the plastic softens, the mechanical connection will come loose. Every half-decent high current fuse holder or busbar is designed so that the plastic base is merely a mounting and is not vital to the mechanical or electrical integrity.

So that was the point at which I lost faith in anything Nigel Calder writes about electrics. He may be a diesel mechanic, but he's not an electrical engineer.
 
pvb said:
Well, I'm reminded of the article Nigel Calder wrote in Yachting Monthly, December 2001, in which he warned us that our boats are in danger of spontaneously combusting due to our lousy wiring. Why? Because he claimed that using stainless steel washers in bolted connections “puts a relatively high resistance in the circuit”. How high? According to Calder, it’s so incredibly high that it “seriously impairs the performance of the equipment” and, worse still, “creates a lot of heat - more than enough in many high-current circuits to start a fire”.

This was complete and utter b*ll*cks, and I told YM it was.

YM took the trouble to ask Nigel Calder to justify his claims, and he came back with more ridiculous scare-mongering, this time about the plastic in fuseholders softening and causing the bolted connection to become loose and cause a fire, and Nigel told us that “Zytel, apparently a common fuse holder plastic, softens at 130 degrees centigrade”. This is totally untrue!

Zytel glass-filled PA66 nylon softens at around 250 C (depending on the percentage of glass reinforcement), roughly twice the temperature Nigel claimed! The excellent heat resistance of Zytel is one of the reasons why it’s specified for good quality fuse holders (such as those made by Blue Sea). Incidentally, as the plastic insulation on high quality marine cable is only rated at 105 C, won’t the cable melt and cause a problem long before a Zytel fuse holder softens? It was also generally untrue for Nigel to say that if the plastic softens, the mechanical connection will come loose. Every half-decent high current fuse holder or busbar is designed so that the plastic base is merely a mounting and is not vital to the mechanical or electrical integrity.

So that was the point at which I lost faith in anything Nigel Calder writes about electrics. He may be a diesel mechanic, but he's not an electrical engineer.
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Well I never! I do recognise that he isn't a professional in the electrical field, as no professional would use the term "amperage". I think that I've written elsewhere that this gets my goat, but resistance due to stainless washers? The electrical path will be between the cable and the substrate of the clamp; washers will have immeasurably small impact on the resistance of the joint (but I have no need to tell you that). Even though copper has a lower resistivity, I'd go for stainless in a non-submerged marine environment every time due to resistance to galvanic corrosion. One hopes his books are better proofread and peer reviewed than his magazine articles. He is still right about diesel on some welding cables, though. Thanks for sharing this.
 
I can see where he is coming from as the resistivity of stainless is 20 times that of copper but he didn't really think it through.
Any significant resistance will cause a large volt drop and limit the current on a 12v system and so the heating effect is also limited.
For example if the connection resistance is 0.01R and the starter motor is trying to draw 100A the heating effect is 100W and the volt drop 1V. This would produce a noticable temperature rise given enough time.
In reality clean bolted connections have a resistance measured in micro ohms and there is probably little difference between stainless and slightly oxidized plated copper. Also the washer would only be on one side.
There is a paper here on bolted connections where stainless nuts and washers are used on copper busbars with thousands of amps and no real problems.Bolted connections
 
Poey50 said:
Just on tinned versus welding cable, Jeff Cote of Pacific Yacht Systems warns that the insulation on welding cable is not resistant - or as resistant - to diesel as marine specified cable. I don't know how valid this is but worth researching if you are doing a lot.
Click to expand...

This is the Jeff Cotes' reference. The key quote is "Welding cable jacket insulation will actually melt off if in contact with gasoline or diesel fuel. I have seen countless welding wires insulations crack and peel like an orange, exposing the bare wires beneath."

Welding Wire vs Marine Wire | Pacific Yacht Systems
 
HissyFit said:
Nigel Calder used to recommend welding cables for locations of high vibration, due to its flexibility, resulting from its fine multi-strand construction and soft sheath. However, he has retracted that recommendation in the latest edition of his book because the fine strands wick up moisture and the sheath on some welding cable can be dissolved by diesel. So that backs up Jeff Cote's warning.
Click to expand...

Sigh.......

Typical "welding" cable is PVC sheathed, 438 x 0,31mm strands

Oceanflex tinned cable is also PVC sheathed and consists of 455 x 0.30mm strands

If Calders battery cables, no matter what he makes them from, are wicking water, he need to get someone to make them up for him properly.
 
Full quote from previous link: Welding Wire vs Marine Wire | Pacific Yacht Systems

- Welding cable jacket insulation will actually melt off if in contact with gasoline or diesel fuel. I have seen countless welding wires insulations crack and peel like an orange, exposing the bare wires beneath

Not sure what cables they use in the US, but they aren't the same as the ones we use here. A Google search will bring up the specs of various welding cable, hard to find one that isn't fuel and oil resistant.

- Welding wire is too stiff and not flexible enough to be subject to vibration

Utter nonsense. Typical "welding" cable is PVC sheathed, 438 x 0,31mm strands. Oceanflex tinned cable is also PVC sheathed and consists of 455 x 0.30mm strands

- Welding wire is untinned and will easily corrode, therefore you’ll experience voltage drop

Can't argue with welding cable not being normally tinned. The only place i've ever seen a boat wired with all tinned cable is on the internet. No production boat that i've ever worked on has been exclusively wired with tinned cable. There are areas where tinned should be used and others where it really doesn't matter. I've re-wired boats with 60 year old wiring, some of which has been domestic cable, and none of it tinned. Most is still OK, other than it's 60 year old domestic wiring.

- All welding wire is black and cannot be purchased in red or yellow. Color codes are useful, I have heard and seen countless accidents happen where all black wire was swapped when doing work.

Complete bollox.

red welding cable - Google Search

yellow welding cable - Google Search

Think about this, when you install a wire in a boat, you install that wire for 40 – 50 years of use. Do you think a welder buys a welding cable and expects 40-50 years of use for his welding cables?

If you treated your tinned battery cables the same as a welder treated his stick welder cables i doubt they'd last very long either.
 
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