When will diesel engines be replaced by electric ones?

Nostrodamus

Nostrodamus

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So how long will it be before the electric engine becomes good enough to fit as standard to a decent sized boats.
We can get rid of red diesel, oil, rip off engine parts and noise.
Then again I am sure that we will find new problems to right about?
What advantages and disadvantages will there be if we could use battery powered engines?
 
Nostrodamus said:
So how long will it be before the electric engine becomes good enough to fit as standard to a decent sized boats.
We can get rid of red diesel, oil, rip off engine parts and noise.
Then again I am sure that we will find new problems to right about?
What advantages and disadvantages will there be if we could use battery powered engines?
Click to expand...

do a search they are available. there is a live aboard barge in our marina in Ipswich ( boat is for sale ) that has 2 generators & an azipod
 
Hybrid is available - example here on a steel Wylo II:



'Hybrid diesel electric drive
The standard engine option in Wylo 35.5 is Hybrid Marine’s Beta 25hp with integrated electric motor/generator.
This gives the reliability of a standard diesel plus the ability to enjoy silent electric drive, when desired - imagine being able to slip in or out of a tranquil anchorage without the noise of the engine.
The hybrid installation also offers the ability to generate ample power for domestic and ship needs.
When the diesel is running it can deliver 5KW of power to the 160aH at 48v battery bank while the combined output from solar panels, wind, and water generators means that the Wylo 35.5 can be energy self-sufficient.'
 
Is this a solution trying to find a problem? In 19 years our boat has averaged 75 engine hours per year. Divide that by the number of miles traveled (under sail/power) and the boat is extremely green. Is the added expense, carbon footprint and added aggravation of electric power really going to make that much difference?

As an observation, can you imagine the mayhem with charter boats, where the skipper 'forgets' to plug in to charge up on reaching Cowes? Or a Sunsail flotilla fleet in the Med, all with flat batteries?
 
It has its place, there have been electric launches on lakes and rivers for many years.
Some people use electric outboards for fishing an tenders.

Diesel-electric transmission and hybrid drives seem like a solution looking for a problem in any leisure boat context that I can think of.

Wind power is the way to go!
 
galadriel said:
As an observation, can you imagine the mayhem with charter boats, where the skipper 'forgets' to plug in to charge up on reaching Cowes? Or a Sunsail flotilla fleet in the Med, all with flat batteries?
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Is that a bad thing?
Sunsail fleets left in the Marina all electrocuting each other... :eek::eek::D:D
 
r_h said:
It's been done already - this boat is completely fossil fuel free, even for cooking:

http://www.green-motion.com/site/
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No mention of batteries!

I'm the kind of sailor who prefers to turn the engine off as much as possible, but how many of us would want to forego the ability to motor for say 6 hours as a minimum?

Even if you said two hours was an acceptable endurance, that's a fairly big battery?
 
lw395 said:
No mention of batteries!

I'm the kind of sailor who prefers to turn the engine off as much as possible, but how many of us would want to forego the ability to motor for say 6 hours as a minimum?

Even if you said two hours was an acceptable endurance, that's a fairly big battery?
Click to expand...

The batteries used are the Mastervolt Lithium Ion batteries with a total weight of 270 kilo for 25.8 kW of usable power 5 hours at a speed of 6 knots. (This is not taking into account any recharging taking place from the wind generator or solar panels).

(item #34 on the Technology page of the website)
 
Hybrids are likely to become more common with spin offs from the automotive world.

However, pure electric power will never come, until somebody discovers a storage medium for the energy that is as efficient as liquid diesel. The motors themselves are very efficient, but batteries and recharging are not.

So, you see electrics successfully used in applications where long term storage of energy is not a problem, for example boats used at low speeds for short periods on inland waterways (electric power was in use before the introduction of diesel). However, when you need more power and there is no easy source of energy produced by a portablke source, the practical restrictions in terms of capacity and duration rule it out.

What is happening now in both the automotive and marine field is a debate on how to improve the efficiency of the use of the energy by different combinations of diesel and electric. So hybrids can either propel by using both the diesel motor and an electric motor in different mixes to power the prop or use the diesel to charge batteries and all propulsion is by electric motor. The latter method has many advantages and is already in use in commercial ships as well as some of the electric cars - the new Fisker for example.

From a yachtsmen's point of view all the new methods have big disadvantages - both space and cost. These do however diminish as power requirements and size of vessel rise, so you you will see them first in larger craft. In smaller sizes, the advantages of diesel in terms of cost, space utilisation, range, durability and energy efficiency are such that it will continue to dominate.
 
r_h said:
The batteries used are the Mastervolt Lithium Ion batteries with a total weight of 270 kilo for 25.8 kW of usable power 5 hours at a speed of 6 knots. (This is not taking into account any recharging taking place from the wind generator or solar panels).

(item #34 on the Technology page of the website)
Click to expand...

270kg to provide the energy content of about 15kg of diesel.
The recharging from wind or sailor does not really need taking into account, it's not going to dent 25.8kW, except if the moors are used with a low duty cycle.

With my diesel, I was not comfortable crossing the channel without enough fuel to complete the crossing and a little reserve.
What would other people regard as a minimum fuel/energy reserve?

I have sailed with no motor at all, but it really changes your planning, to say the least!
 
As I am always told that it is bad to run a diesel for short periods (less than about 20mins), it seems quite appealing to me to be able to run an electric motor for the five minutes it takes to leave or pick a mooring (or berth). Let the solar/wind recharge that power between sails, or top it up during the sail using a prop-driven generator, and hey presto.

So for certain types of sailing it could have great appeal.
 
As has been said, the electric motors already exist, and have done for some time. The problem is that the batteries don't. You need a generator, at the moment, if you want to carry 24 hours' worth of 'fuel'. For my 3.5 ton boat that is 6 gallons of diesel, but would probably equate to a ton of Lithium batteries. I think fuel cells, which are really generators by another name, will be the energy source for the electric powered sailing boat.
 
lw395 said:
With my diesel, I was not comfortable crossing the channel without enough fuel to complete the crossing and a little reserve.
What would other people regard as a minimum fuel/energy reserve?
Click to expand...

That's entirely fair comment for boats used for cross Channel sailing - I tend to do the same myself in terms of fuel reserves. The GreenMotion cat was designed for long-distance work, where you're much more likely to stay in harbour waiting for a favourable forecast, and in any case a day spent becalmed in the middle of a passage won't be as much of a problem.
 
r_h said:
The batteries used are the Mastervolt Lithium Ion batteries with a total weight of 270 kilo for 25.8 kW of usable power 5 hours at a speed of 6 knots. (This is not taking into account any recharging taking place from the wind generator or solar panels).
Click to expand...

Back in reality.... :D

We set off from an overcast Largs to and overcast Howth, a 30 hour trip at 5 knots, we motored for 29 hours. No wind, and for 8 hours there was no light.

Until an electric solution can deal with that sort of trip it's back to the drawing board me thinks :rolleyes:
 
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