When was the last time you used Dead Reckoning/Estimated Position or took bearings in anger?

[Daydream believer]

Have you compared an old b/w chart with today's dismal offering?

A modern Imray chart of a scale suitable for the area one is interested in is an excellent piece of publication. Visually the colours are a great improvement & they are infinitely better than the admiralty ones, with the info that a yachtsman needs. I have a 9 inch Garmin chart plotter, but find it almost impossible to plan a sensible passage, without reference to the chart. With the Imray chart it is visually easy to do so. Quicker than with my old admiralty ones. I did like the colour tones of the Stanford charts better though. Why on earth are you unhappy with them?

 

[SaltyC]

It is all about interpretation of the information available from whatever source. Navigation is an artistic interpretation of science!
The tidal streams atlas tells you what SHOULD be happening, wind strength and direction, barometric pressure may change the 'good navigators' interpretation.
Do I want to go back to the 'Null' point of RDF - NO THANKS.
But I still use Mark l eyeball and paper charts to confirm the electronic 'fact'

 

[SaltyC]

Maybe. But I think there is a need to rethink what navigation in the 2020s is and educate new entrants with useful stuff, not just what has been on the syllabus since the dawn of the RYA.

Agreed, but they need to know when all their instruments 'go dark '. The basic understanding is still required - sorry Luddite, wrong side of 40.

 

[SaltyC]

As opposed to technology that dies with a bit of salty damp, a corroded terminal, a nearby lightening strike, a military conflict well over the horizon that causes satellites to be repositioned (it happened during the Balkans conflicts) or a dead battery. Perhaps you have yet to discover that salt water and boats are aggressive environments for electronics.

Yes, apps for tidal calculations are great, the best is probably Total Tide from UKHO. Likewise, with all the other digital technology and associated toys, and I am happy to use them; right up to the moment one or all stops working.

Then what?

The Almanac? 19th century but still works.

 

[dgadee]

I do not have any "apps"

You need to move with the times.

 

[dgadee]

The Almanac? 19th century but still works.

But it too can get wet and stop working. And, unfortunately, does not suit the part-time navigator so well.

 

[Daydream believer]

You need to move with the times.

Why? I do not NEED an app to work out tides for the minimal number of secondary ports that I visit. What i do need is to get that annoying "smart" phone into a locker out of the way, as soon as I get on the boat. Then I can enjoy life without hassle from someone from India trying to sell me something.
I do have an ipad for the weather(windy or Meto) but little else. Although, I will have to use it for border crossing. I used to fill in forms to leave/arrive the UK & the same for France & Belgium.
So much better, so that one knew exactly where one stood, without confusion.
Just online now so no big deal provided it does not all go astray & actually works . So Yes, I will have a couple of "apps". But not dozens, like a couple of friends who could survive on a boat without smart phones full of apps.

 

[dgadee]

Why? I do not NEED an app to work out tides for the minimal number of secondary ports that I visit. What i do need is to get that annoying "smart" phone into a locker out of the way, as soon as I get on the boat. Then I can enjoy life without hassle from someone from India trying to sell me something.
I do have an ipad for the weather(windy or Meto) but little else. Although, I will have to use it for border crossing. I used to fill in forms to leave/arrive the UK & the same for France & Belgium.
So much better, so that one knew exactly where one stood, without confusion.
Just online now so no big deal provided it does not all go astray & actually works . So Yes, I will have a couple of "apps". But not dozens, like a couple of friends who could survive on a boat without smart phones full of apps.

Good for you. I only have 2 or 3 I use. We sre probably on the same wavelength.

 

[Adios]

I'm convinced GPS is a massive hinderance to learning to navigate a place on land or sea and probably shouldn't be used locally at all, as navigation of the local area should be *learned*.

The last city I lived in I realised after 6 years I barely knew my way around. I've just moved to Torquay and instead of using my satnav I bought a A-Z street map. Within weeks I knew the main road names and areas, I look up to find my marks instead of down at a screen so it's safer as well. When I work out a route I realise I just need to remember 3 or 4 markers for turns, if I was doing it on the satnav I end up with my eyes flicking down at the screen constantly in case a turn is coming up as I'm relying on it giving me turn info as I go rather than i have the info in my head before I need it which I get if I plan off a map. Nothing seems to stick in the mind when the satnav does the heavy lifting.

As I'm back on the coast I'll be getting a little yacht again soon and now I'm where there are rocks poking out of the sea I really need to learn where they all are. Compared to the east coast there are so many more named things, little bays and rocks etc to navigate by I'm sure the HBC and chart will be THE means of navigation around the coast. Then soon enough won't need either to know where I am.

 

[capnsensible]

I'm convinced GPS is a massive hinderance to learning to navigate a place on land or sea and probably shouldn't be used locally at all, as navigation of the local area should be *learned*.

The last city I lived in I realised after 6 years I barely knew my way around. I've just moved to Torquay and instead of using my satnav I bought a A-Z street map. Within weeks I knew the main road names and areas, I look up to find my marks instead of down at a screen so it's safer as well. When I work out a route I realise I just need to remember 3 or 4 markers for turns, if I was doing it on the satnav I end up with my eyes flicking down at the screen constantly in case a turn is coming up as I'm relying on it giving me turn info as I go rather than i have the info in my head before I need it which I get if I plan off a map. Nothing seems to stick in the mind when the satnav does the heavy lifting.

As I'm back on the coast I'll be getting a little yacht again soon and now I'm where there are rocks poking out of the sea I really need to learn where they all are. Compared to the east coast there are so many more named things, little bays and rocks etc to navigate by I'm sure the HBC and chart will be THE means of navigation around the coast. Then soon enough won't need either to know where I am.

I'm inclined to agree. The best navigators are those that have the 'feel' for their surroundings.

However, as I mentioned up thread, GPS has certainly made things much safer for the leisure sailor.

Regarding apps, check the look on their little faces when there is no phone signal....

 

[Adios]

However, as I mentioned up thread, GPS has certainly made things much safer for the leisure sailor.

No denying that when things start flying around having a screen with a dot on a chart is quicker and easier than any other method of determining location. The flip side as far as it being safer for a leisure sailor is the increased likelihood of inexperienced people getting into sticky situations because of the confidence given by having the dot on a screen method in the first place. All the devices are leading us to neglect learning other ways than the screen way (in everything), so the novice didn't stay local and take a season to learn how to navigate, (and during that time become a more experienced sailor) instead he can go straight out on passages steering his dot across a screen with no back up methods and very little seamanship experience.

 

[dgadee]

I was in Sao Paulo and could not get my bearings. Only when I realised that the sun was north did my wandering make sense.

But ... GPS is the greatest safety advance in amateur sailing ever. In my opinion, of course.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I'm convinced GPS is a massive hinderance to learning to navigate a place on land or sea and probably shouldn't be used locally at all, as navigation of the local area should be *learned*.

The last city I lived in I realised after 6 years I barely knew my way around. I've just moved to Torquay and instead of using my satnav I bought a A-Z street map. Within weeks I knew the main road names and areas, I look up to find my marks instead of down at a screen so it's safer as well. When I work out a route I realise I just need to remember 3 or 4 markers for turns, if I was doing it on the satnav I end up with my eyes flicking down at the screen constantly in case a turn is coming up as I'm relying on it giving me turn info as I go rather than i have the info in my head before I need it which I get if I plan off a map. Nothing seems to stick in the mind when the satnav does the heavy lifting.

As I'm back on the coast I'll be getting a little yacht again soon and now I'm where there are rocks poking out of the sea I really need to learn where they all are. Compared to the east coast there are so many more named things, little bays and rocks etc to navigate by I'm sure the HBC and chart will be THE means of navigation around the coast. Then soon enough won't need either to know where I am.

When I first moved to Cambridge from my family home in Yorkshire, I deliberately spent a day wandering around the city centre trying to get lost! My aim was straightforward - to gain knowledge of the street layout, and to see what was there. It was time well-spent; thereafter I've never had any trouble finding my way around! But I'm fortunate; I have a good spatial memory, honed over the years by my work in Geographic Information. Although I have chartplotters, I rarely look at them under way; for many years the only one I had was below deck anyway! I have recently had one fitted in the cockpit, but being a tiller-steered boat, it isn't immediately in view from the helm.

 

[trevbouy]

The last city I lived in I realised after 6 years I barely knew my way around. I've just moved to Torquay and instead of using my satnav I bought a A-Z street map. Within weeks I knew the main road names and areas,

Avoid Hele village then.
Torquay. Devons most dangerous town. Official.
I stick around the harbour area and the lower town area. So many dossers in doorways and beggars around the place.
The 'English Riviera' flower display welcoming you on the way in has a tent and homeless man living on it. Not exactly the best welcome!

 

[dgadee]

Avoid Hele village then.
Torquay. Devons most dangerous town. Official.
I stick around the harbour area and the lower town area. So many dossers in doorways and beggars around the place.
The 'English Riviera' flower display welcoming you on the way in has a tent and homeless man living on it. Not exactly the best welcome!

Does the danger come from holiday home owners?

 

[Adios]

Avoid Hele village then.
Torquay. Devons most dangerous town. Official.
I stick around the harbour area and the lower town area. So many dossers in doorways and beggars around the place.
The 'English Riviera' flower display welcoming you on the way in has a tent and homeless man living on it. Not exactly the best welcome!

I've just moved from downtown Birmingham. Unless I see running battles with machetes here I'll keep considering torquay a mini slice of heaven. In fact I'm not even sure where I put my home defense machete and cross bow it feels that safe here. I live in Torre among the guesthouses and palm trees. Could be a lot worse!!

 

[Uricanejack]

Well Dr to secondary ports,

Admit. It’s been several decades since I did A UK secondary port. My memory may not be immediately up to the task if required. However, I do still have the wit and wisdom to read the explanation at the back of the book. Problem solved PDQ. Presumably it’s still there. ( I live in Canada and use the Canadian ones routinely) same concept
What will be the depth at the bar. Yes I ask, nowadays it no longer surprises me when an MM gives me a blank look.
Those who are worth thier salt, know how to look for the instructions. And will come up with the answer. Which is acceptable.
being a little rusty, Ok if you can figure it out.
Not being able to is not very impressive, I know I’m in for a long week and will probably have to give detailed report of why someone doesn’t cut it.
Unfortunately the days when I could just make a call and say 10 knot guy 20 knot boat, are over. Now I have to write it out in triplicate .

I suppose the RYA could decide to drop all sorts of basic stuff. Not if they want to keep meeting the requirements of the MCA and STCW.
Sailing your own boat for your own pleasure, if you don’t feel like it don’t bother you don’t have to.

If you expect someone to hire you to run a boat. Different story.

The world is changing, The Canadian Hydrographic office no longer prints the tide tables, or most of the traditional publications. They still produce charts, but how long before some cost cutting beurocrat in Ottawa decides to cut charts. They even have some suggestion we should have virtual navigation marks.
That idea got dropped because they are still trying to convince the locals, Oil tankers are good for the environment.

For me part of the pleasure of sailing, is not using the engine, (I do occasionally), not using electronics, Just the basics. My own boat does have a radar, I pretty much never turn on and a GPS which tells me the time. If I bother to look. Truth is when I’m out sailing I don’t usually care what time it is unless it’s getting close to closing time.

The pleasure is in being able to see, hear, smell, feel, and on some occasions even taste the environment.

My wife gets tired of it and leaves me and the dog out on deck in the rain on our own and goes bellow to read a book.

My kids want me to get a motorboat instead of drifting around going nowhere all day.

 

[Adios]

Avoid Hele village then.
Torquay. Devons most dangerous town. Official.

Night before last taken from Oddicombe beach about a mile from Hele, officially not dangerous other than in a strong easterly.

 

[dgadee]

Did you get there by DR or chart plotter?

 

[john_morris_uk]

My wife gets tired of it and leaves me and the dog out on deck in the rain on our own and goes bellow to read a book.

Does she always shout out what she’s going to do?