when to replace starter motor?

thanks everyone, great answers as always, frayed corroded cables I shall look for, and will listen out for trouble , I cant imagine the brushes have had much wear, it gets cranked less than 500 times per year i recon..
 
Sorry but I shall have to disagree with some .....

Near all starters we have on boats are basically CAR starters ... and NOT designed for boat use - to be bolted onto a lump that then sits in bilges hardly seeing light of day till something goes wrong. It has to put up with salty air ... odd bit of water splashed around ... and we bang the starter button expecting old faithful to rally to the call.

My 4-107 starter has probably less use than many and it gave up the ghost for those reasons. Lack of daily use like a car is in fact one of the reasons corrosion and failure occur with a marine starter.

When mine failed - the repair guy spent time cleaning it up from its life in the dark bilges ... and reckoned half the problem was that.
He reckoned MORE use was needed to keep her spinning over and free of corrosion build up.

BUT lets be honest - 15yrs is not such a long time for starter unless it one of the later designs !! The old bendix / recoil style starters truck on year after year ... but of course when it fails - you then have to order the bits ...
 
tudorsailor said:
My starter failed as I was sailing between Corfu and Albania with increasing wind. I did not relish the thought of sailing into Gouvia through the narrow channel. Luckily the engineer told me how to jump start the engine with a large screw driver.
TudorSailor
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Your starter was clearly still working, the relay had failed. Once the starter has actually failed on most modern engines you are under sail. Or if less competent under tow.
 
jwilson said:
Your starter was clearly still working, the relay had failed. Once the starter has actually failed on most modern engines you are under sail. Or if less competent under tow.
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Not always true, there are several faults with the solenoid assembly which may be got around by shorting the solenoid contacts.
 
Not all of us have had the thrill of being truck drivers! But there's no reason to replace a functioning starter motor "just in case it fails". If you go down that route, what next? Replace the cylinder head "in case it fails"? Replace the whole cooling system "in case it fails"? Madness...
 
Dan Tribe said:
That's a painful reminder. My brand new Beta had 10 hrs on it, two keys on the ignition crossed over and jammed in the start position. Must have been running 15 mins before we noticed the smoke, and then we couldn't stop the beast! I only have 1 key on the switch now.
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Unfortunately we had the same problem when my wife started the engine once whilst I was casting off. A very quick tour along the river and back onto the pontoon eventually cost us about €500 after a week waiting for a replacement. We always check that the key goes back from the start position now...
 
Your starter motor should not "wear out" as such. It can however fail through the passage of time probably from corrosion. So I think if you are concerned then inspection would be the answer. Either do it yourself or get an expert to dismantle it. Check the commutator and brushes (and holders) check bearings for lubrication if they have it and check the engagement mechanism for rust. Refit and check all the wiring for condition. Check the solenoid contacts, Hopefully also you can discern from this forum and others just what does commonly cause a starter motor to fail. Check these possibilities on your own. ol'will
 
goldcrest said:
thanks everyone, great answers as always, frayed corroded cables I shall look for, and will listen out for trouble , I cant imagine the brushes have had much wear, it gets cranked less than 500 times per year i recon..
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Do not underestimate the wear of the brushes. They are getting a small "mileage", but being almost pure carbon to deal with extreme currents and low voltage, they are very soft and wear much faster than on most "general purpose" motors.
 
jiris said:
Do not underestimate the wear of the brushes. They are getting a small "mileage", but being almost pure carbon to deal with extreme currents and low voltage, they are very soft and wear much faster than on most "general purpose" motors.
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Plus the matter I mentioned earlier of LACK OF USE can lead to crud and corrosion build up ... soft carbon brushes will not appreciate going through that .....

Items that are subject to problems due lack of frequent use :

Bearings front and back ..... both mine were replaced a short while ago.
Bendix springs rusting and failing - particularly the thin return spring
Bendix spiral getting clogged up and then bendix doesn't fly along properly - can get actually stuck as mine did and stay engaged
Brushes wearing out quickly due to crud on the commutator

ALL the above points were found on my starter and fixed recently. Repair guy asked me how little I use it !! He advised I should use it more often !!
 
Refueler said:
Bendix springs rusting and failing - particularly the thin return spring
Bendix spiral getting clogged up and then bendix doesn't fly along properly -
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I went through that re-lubrication process a few days ago with an old 1976 Landy starter motor. However, I suspect that the OP's 15 year old starter motor is probably of the pre-engaged variety, although I might be wrong. :)

Richard
 
goldcrest said:
its maybe 15 + years old, a volvo md2030.. I am thinking that it may be the most likely thing that could leave me without engine??! I doubt it has done as much cranking as an average car would in one year, does this potentially extend its useful life?? and would anyone recommend a non volvo replacement? Opinions please, and tips on what else I should be looking at to ensure i don't call sea start this summer, aside from the common service/impeller/matrix issues.. thanks.
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I made a mistake when I decided to replace my Starter Motor.
I had bought a 30 year old boat with a BMC inboard diesel engine.
Although it was working fine there was no service history about when it may have been changed or serviced (new brushes etc) so I had to assume it was the original 30 year old starter motor.
So I removed it (and I was glad I did) as it was obvious that at some time the bilges had been flooded. High enough to be over the dipstick hole and some oil must have come out as the inside of the starter motor was covered in yellow oil the colour that oil goes when mixed with seawater.
The mistake I made that I took advice from the local boatyard who said that they knew a firm which "reconditioned" starter motors.
Anyway, It was expensive, I then found that off the Internet I could have bought an ex-Lucas Reconditioned Starter Motor for about half the price of what I paid to have mine "reconditioned"
So although your Starter Motor may be a Bosche I would buy another.
 
Jim@sea said:
I made a mistake when I decided to replace my Starter Motor.
I had bought a 30 year old boat with a BMC inboard diesel engine.
Although it was working fine there was no service history about when it may have been changed or serviced (new brushes etc) so I had to assume it was the original 30 year old starter motor.
So I removed it (and I was glad I did) as it was obvious that at some time the bilges had been flooded. High enough to be over the dipstick hole and some oil must have come out as the inside of the starter motor was covered in yellow oil the colour that oil goes when mixed with seawater.
The mistake I made that I took advice from the local boatyard who said that they knew a firm which "reconditioned" starter motors.
Anyway, It was expensive, I then found that off the Internet I could have bought an ex-Lucas Reconditioned Starter Motor for about half the price of what I paid to have mine "reconditioned"
So although your Starter Motor may be a Bosche I would buy another.
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Not unusual for recondition cost to beat replacement ... especially when Chinese / Russian starters are so cheap.

Unfortunately my 4-107 is installed so I cannot swap for a later geared starter at half the price ... so I have to cough up to keep my original starter working. Replacement for it is near 450 quid !! So the 100 quid I spent recently refurbishing was worth it !!
 
There is a place in Manchester QX Components who have reconditioned starter motors on the shelf. The chances are that the starter motor for your engine being a Perkins 4-107 which was fitted to thousands of Massey Ferguson MF35 Tractors they may have on the shelf.
I know that I recently needed a starter for a 30 year old Benford Dumper which had a 3cyl Diesel and they reconditioned it quite cheaply.
I also notice that for old engines with a Lucas Dynamo you can get a new Alternator which looks like the original dynamo and obviously will work with the same fan belt.
Advertised in Classic Car magazines.
 
Jim@sea said:
There is a place in Manchester QX Components who have reconditioned starter motors on the shelf. The chances are that the starter motor for your engine being a Perkins 4-107 which was fitted to thousands of Massey Ferguson MF35 Tractors they may have on the shelf.
I know that I recently needed a starter for a 30 year old Benford Dumper which had a 3cyl Diesel and they reconditioned it quite cheaply.
I also notice that for old engines with a Lucas Dynamo you can get a new Alternator which looks like the original dynamo and obviously will work with the same fan belt.
Advertised in Classic Car magazines.
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That's nice to know ... if I was still living in UK !! Cheapest quote I could get for recon starter for my 4-107 incl shipping was over 500 quid !!
 
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