When to leave Yarmouth for Dartmouth?

[Chris_Rayner]

Dear assembled wisdom,

Having bashed across to Cherbourg last year, done the Channel Islands and Isles Chausey we are setting our sights on the coast beyond Poole this year. Planning to leave on 19th of June or thereabouts from Yarmouth and pass well outside the Portland Race of grim reputation. We are a Hunter Pilot 27 crewed by a pair of ageing teenagers in our fifties. We have all the electronic toys, or we will have when I've fitted the DSC radio and sorted out a licence upgrade for the boat. We can make 5 knots motorsailing comfortably, 6 at a push. What sort of time wrt HW Dover does the panel think we should take our leave of Yarmouth.

I do have my own ideas, but am interested in other's

 

[Goodge]

Are you going straight to dartmouth or are you going to stop over some where ie Weymouth ?

One suggestion might be to leave Y'mouth about 1 hour before HW Soton thereby punching just the las bit of the tide to the Needles.

By the the time the tide turns you will be near or past the Needles and you can carry it for many hours towards Weymouth.

 

[BlueChip]

The criticial tidal gate for you is Portland Bill, you need to work out your estimated SOG using the tides and your boat speed and make sure you get well round that before the tide turns against you. Once past the Bill the tides are much weaker and you can largely ignore them. Get to the Bill too late and you can spend all day there punching the tide.
Its quite do able from Yarmouth with reasonable boat speed and tide, but its much easier from Poole or Studland. If possible drop down to Studland the night before and get away early as soon as the flood tide eases.

 

[AIDY]

Yup if you are going straight to dartmouth. leave at HW just before the tide changes (slack in the needles channel - can be a bit lumpy wind against tide).

This will mean you have got the tide with you until the Portland Bill. (Best to have the tide with you until the Bill).

There is not much tide in lyme bay to push against. From memory about 1knot.

Dartmouth gets my thumbs up everytime I go.

Have a good passage.

 

[Robin]

Aside from the obvious tide gate at Hurst/Needles there are others at Anvil/St Albans and of course Portland Bill. There is a back eddy of tide close inshore between Poole and St Albans Head which can be very helpful as it runs for 2 hours before the tide turns at St Albans (at about 45mins before HW Dover). Do the maths using your own SOG predictions, but I would probably buck the tide out from Yarmouth via North Channel and across to Poole to pick up the back eddy from Old Harry to Sta Albans. You will then have favourable tide to carry you some way past Portland into Lyme Bay, then a period of slack before having some more hours of foul tide to Dartmouth which will be from say 45 degs port side and not boat stopping in strength depending where you are springs and neaps. Overall you will gain more tifde than you lose, just don't look at the SOG screen when the tide is foul!

Another alternative would be to make Studland rather than Yarmouth the start point. We plan on 6kts and Poole - Dartmouth for us is under 10 hours.

The option of waiting for a favourable tide at Yarmouth/Hurst would I fear result in not clearing Portland Bill before the really strong tide turns foul.

Robin

 

[jimi]

I'd go Studland or Swanage Bay (Swange if its really settled otherwise Studland), wait for the next tide and go straight to Dartmouth. If you go to Weymouth its a long way out round the Bill by the outside route, inside its shorter but still a detour

 

[Sans Bateau]

Or.....

If its blowing W or SW why not sail to Cherbourg, fill up with wine ( the boat not you, or both of course). Stay the night then head for Dartmouth? The sail back from Dartmouth can be just West to East (fingers crossed)

The advantage of this plan is two fold. Firstly if it is coming from the W or SW it saves labourious tack westward. You finish up with a nice reach on both legs. Secondly you get to buy your wine at 'real' prices for the summer cruise.

Think about it, the sail across Lyme bay is 58 miles from Portland to Brixham. Its only 60 miles from Needles to Cherbourg (give or take a bit)

 

[snowleopard]

there's a lot to be said for going when you're ready (or when the weather suits). a delay to wait for the tide will never make you arrive earlier though it may shorten the passage. if you're going well south of the bill there are no 'gates' on your route.

 

[billmacfarlane]

Looking at the size of your boat you'd be pushing it to make Portland before the tide turns, assuming you'll be leaving Yarmouth at HW slack. If you don't make it you'd need to turn into Weymouth which is a detour too far. I'd leave on the first of the ebb at the Needles and make towards either Swanage or Studland depending on conditions. Next day leave about 1 hour before the ebb starts and head for Portland. Leave it about 4 miles to starboard to be comfortable and you'll still carry a bit of tide into Lyme Bay. After that you'll need to look at the tidal streams round Dartmouth to lay the appropriate course.

 

[LadyInBed]

By the shortest route, you have three critical tide points to negotiate
Hurst, St Albans Hd and PB.
You can get from Hurst past St Albans Hd in a W going tide, but won't make the Bill on that tide.
Leaving Hurst on the last couple of hours of W tide and going around the cans at St Albans Hd would get you to the Bill in time to catch the next W tide.

Yarmouth - St Albans Hd (inside passage) about 17 mls say 4 hrs
St Albans Hd - PB about 17 mls say 4 hrs
PB - Dartmouth about 44 mls say 10 hrs

That’s an 18 hr trip.

If you go via Weymouth
St Albans Hd - Weymouth about 16 mls say 3 hrs
Weymouth - PB about 8 mls say 2 hrs

That adds about 7 mls, a nice visit to Weymouth, cheaper fuel and a nights sleep.
Why would you not stop off at Weymouth?

 

[StugeronSteve]

Unless you want to make a long passage for the experience, stop off in Weymouth. Nice harbour with atmosphere, fair charges and good food.

Whatever you do, enjoy the trip!

 

[john_morris_uk]

If the weather is fair, why get too worked up about Portland Bill. I am not in anyway suggesting going through the race, but the inshore passage is not diffcult, and I always enjoy watching the land pass by...

Seriously, you will be hard pushed to make Portland in one tide from Yarmouth. Better to go and kedge in Studland or Portland (wherever you get to) and wait for the next fair tide to take you across Lyme Bay.

Don't believe people when they say there are no tidal gates west of Portland. All the headlands can get very tedious when you are bucking the tide round them!

 

[Evadne]

Hear hear

I got the tide times wrong once coming the other way, and while doing 6-7 knots through the water is unusual for us, we were still only doing 2 knots over the ground.

We usually go to Weymouth, a pleasant daysail from Yarmouth, and catch the tide round the inside of the Bill when we're ready to leave. We have even done Chichester to Weymouth in a day (3am to 3pm) via St Catherine's once (not a westerly wind).

If you're going to one of the Dartmouth marinas, make sure you're sitting down when they hand you the bill. And do try and get up to Dittisham, its very picturesque up there. (And cheaper).

 

[StugeronSteve]

Re: Hear hear

Dave, Darthaven were not "unusually expensive" last year, they were, however, unusually helpful. And the nightime view across the river is worth a few bob!

It's getting your timing right for the Bill on the way back that is the b****r. Last summer we rocketed back across Lyme Bay and found ourselves to be well and truly early for the party. Plugging back past the Bill for ages, even though we had gone well offshore.

 

[janie]

Weymouth

[ QUOTE ]
Unless you want to make a long passage for the experience, stop off in Weymouth. Nice harbour with atmosphere, fair charges and good food.

[/ QUOTE ]Absolutely! Having had to unexpectedly leave the boat in Weymouth for a week, making uncomforatable progress against the Easterlies 3 weeks ago, we couldn't believe what a lovely, helpful place it was.

 

[Evadne]

Thanks for reminding me

I think you may have mentioned this before, but I'd forgotten it. We'll have to try it next year, when SWMBO wants to visit West Bay. I do like Dartmouth but in order to prevent a mutiny on a long holiday we have to put into a marina every other night, or at least somewhere with a shower, and we've only ever tried the one on the other side. Which was staggeringly expensive last time, even by Solent standards.
This year we'll probably only get a week so we're going to meander down to Weymouth, stay a couple of days and come back via Poole and our favourite places in the Solent. Unless we start with any east in the wind in which case I'll be tempted to go for the St. Catherine's route.

 

[Chris_Rayner]

Re: South of the Bill

Thanks for the advice. Just how far south is South? 8-9 nm for example?

Chris

 

[Chris_Rayner]

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, you will be hard pushed to make Portland in one tide from Yarmouth. Better to go and kedge in Studland or Portland (wherever you get to) and wait for the next fair tide to take you across Lyme Bay.


[/ QUOTE ]

I had hoped otherwise, but suspected as much. I don't really want to go to Weymouth, as the detour to get outside the race, which, knowing my luck the weather may well oblige me to take, will add several miles to the passage. So kedging looks like the favoured option. Now all I have to do is sell it to the Captain.

Chris

 

[Evadne]

Re: South of the Bill

Easily all of that. I can vouch for having 4kts against you at springs about 5 miles off (outside the race, obviously).

 

[LadyInBed]

From Weymouth the only time you need to go the ‘long’ way around the Bill is if it is blowing SW5 or greater. Then you don’t want to be doing the trip that day anyway!!!
I kept my last boat (22ft) on a swing mooring in Portland Harbour and used to do day sails round the Bill and back when the tides were right (a day or three after neaps)

Tides for PB - Use DOVER, W going HW to LW Dover, E going LW to HW Dover. ( Same as going around Cap de la Hague)