When sailing with novices

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arfa

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Reading the DSC/VHF post made me think about drills aboard with relative newbies (which tend to be pals I take out sailing) and doing the safety briefing.
I tend to give a brief but thorough VHF/MOB drill, engine starting briefing and safety kit briefing as I want the day to be safe but fun.
This weekend I went out with a pal who I'd sailed with on several occasions and given the same briefing to just the day before and I asked him to start the engine. He got half way through before suggesting I sort it. I asked what happens if I fall in ? I got a bit of a blank look and a similar look on VHF procedure (which is written down below).
Perhaps I am not hammering home safety enough (even though I always give the same briefing as a matter of course) but should I push safety a bit harder ? I follow the same personal safety procedures as when I am singlehanded with relatively inexperienced crew on board but it was a bit of a wake up call. Anyone got any suggestions ? Anyone else had a similar experience ?
 
I suppose it was a reminder to me not to be complacent and that the buck stops with me for the safety of all on board, including myself !
 
Last time out we had a practice MOB session when something fell off the boat. Of the four crew, two didn't have a clue what to do even though the briefing was only a couple of hours before (no, not me & Louise /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif ) so it was obvious that they either hadn't listened, or didn't understand what was expected. Either way, everyone knew who could manage and who couldn't, so allowances were made.
MOB was lost at sea though, the hat sank just as we got to it /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Not such a bad idea to chuck something in and treat as a MOB though
 
Keep it simple .. To the point .. Ask questions .. Ok .. Show me how .. Will someone start the engine while i use the heads .. If you do it all yourself the crew get fed up .. Learnt that with SWMBO .. Sorry to disturb you darling but would you just .. Pull this .. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
I agree that you're effectively single-handing, but with company.

I believe that many are wildly optimistic about the amount of information that can be conveyed effectively in an informal / semi formal briefing to novices. Foremost in their minds is probably remembering how to work the bog. With this in mind, I concentrate on getting one important point across: how to work the VHF if it all goes T-U. (Along the lines of "If you fall in, I might not be able to get back and pick you up, so hold on & don't fall in. If I fall in, pick up this [the VHF mic], and follow the instructions on this card...."). We wear L-Js as a matter of habit, and ask that others wear them too, so there's no explaining to do (just our policy, what you do is your choice).

Trying to tell them how to start the engine, drop sail, recover MOB, turn off the gas, as well as mayday procedure etc. as part of the initial briefing has just got to lead to overload, nothing sinking in, and panic in the unlikely event of a real emergency.

Once you've got a bit of time to kill, or the opportunity arises, you can explain, and show the other stuff - one thing at a time.

0.02p

Andy
 
Fair points - the only thing I'd add is that I don't have a heads aboard and hopefully they suss that operational technique fairly easily /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Personally I am a LJ's on guy unless you can run me through all the safety procedures and convince me you can swim against 4 knots of tide /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
Swimming

SWMBO Fancied a swim .. We were anchored just of the beach at Lowestoft .. Really nice day .. In she dived .. Good job I stayed on board .. She is a good strong swimmer but could not get near the boat .. So threw the main sheet in and pulled her back /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Well she is very good at BOAT FOOD .. Roast lunch on two rings etc .. at sea ..
 
I have a laminated single sheet on boat safety which I go over with the 'novice'- care with boom, location & use of flares, LJs, harness, distress drill - VHF & MOB etc. Whether anything will register is anyone's guess.
 
Totally agree that there is a limit to how much can be effectively taken in during a briefing. Like others, I take the attitude that I am single-handing when sailing with novices. But not just novices, even when sailing with 'experienced' people who haven't been on the boat before (on the assumption that I wouldn't necessily remember how to start someone elses engine even after being shown the previous day).

I don't talk about gas, flares, engines, seacocks, ...
I tell them about the things that a more likely to damage them or ruin a good day on the water. Winches and mainsheet traveller. If all they remember is to keep their fingers clear then I'm happy. Then next most useful thing is to press and hold the red button on the VHF/DSC if it all goes tts up.

I reckon that the rest can be shown bit by bit as the day sail or week cruise progresses.

TLOM
 
This is a serious issue - in the event of any accident or claim against the skipper for compensation following an incident, someone will ask this question. And how will we answer?

I have become increasingly aware of this issue when taking amateur volunteers aboard. My best solution - and there may well be a yet better one - is to list the safety issues and send/give them to the volunteer before boarding. Then on boarding refer to the list and deal with questions/show how it's done etc. IE - a proper safety trail.

Anyone who takes a friend or stranger aboard, makes a cup of tea and just issues an instruction to "chuck off that line there, old chap" before sailing, is openening himself to a share of liability in the event of an incident.

And then there's the bit about saving the skipper when he's incapacitated...

Not a reason to refuse all amateurs a ride, but some of the answers on this post don't seem to share the same perspective on liability and the possibly tragic consequences of not taking reasonable precautions.

PWG
 
We'd better all give up and start playing gof then.
Do you give a safety lecture on what to do if you die at the wheel on the motorway when giving a lift to friends?
I quite agree, safety lectures are pointless. How many have you heard on planes and how many of the passengers remember anything about them? If you board a ferry on Windermere, you'll get a crackly tape recording telling you where the life belts are.

If you're taking non-sailors out on your boat, why would you expect them to absorb all that info?

How far do people really want to go to protect themselves against this spectre of litigation and court cases that seems to hang over every aspect of our lives?
In reality nothing much has changed. If you are demonstrably reckless, you'll get punished.

These forums have become the home of H&S pundits and merchants of doom.
 
I found the best way to get SWMBO (my only crew) to be good at handling the boat in a 'MOB' situation was to catch fish. Don't laugh, if we get a big one - our immediate reaction is to stop the boat, heave to, start the motor, then manoeuvre. Had I asked her to do this, even after briefings and a few practices she would have been too nervous, now she is brilliant.
Going back the original question, I skipper regularly with novices at home and work on the principle that once given a full brief, then I am single handed but with a lot of bodies likley to get in the way when I need to do something.
 
Re: Swimming

[ QUOTE ]
SWMBO Fancied a swim .. We were anchored just of the beach at Lowestoft .. Really nice day .. In she dived .. Good job I stayed on board .. She is a good strong swimmer but could not get near the boat .. So threw the main sheet in and pulled her back

[/ QUOTE ]
Always a good plan to have a fender floating astern on a long piece of floating rope, and instruct all swimmers to swim towards the bow. If all else fails, the fender allows the swimmer to grab hold and be towed back to the boat.
 
I think you see my point - it is not that you spent 10 minutes or half an hour on a briefing. It is that, in the event of an enquiry or legal challenge, you can show you took reasonable steps to ensure the crew were briefed on key issues affecting their safety whilst on board. If it is merely verbal, this could be attacked. If it is in writing and given to crew before boarding, you can argue that you took all reasonable steps. No one, as the airline parallel shows, takes all possible steps - that is not the test a skipper would be required to meet in a court case.

None of this would prevent an aggreived crew from bringing a demand for compensation. But having issued a safety briefing note in advance, you can argue that the crew knew what they were undertaking before they stepped aboard and into risk. They are therefore party to the arrangement; this is also why not charging a crew for being on the boat is so important; once a commercial arrangement exists - in a boat or car- the whole caboodle changes!

I rest my case.

PWG
 
... and with that, we say good bye to sharing a relaxing, stress-free pastime with friends.

Issuing a safety document to friends before a gentle evening sail to an overnight anchorage to enjoy a few drams???

I do see you point of view. However, I think I'll take the chance and try to preserve the inherent calm of my hobby.

TLOM
 
On the basis that keeping them safe and interested is the most important I do the following.

Go through a brief safety briefing as intro but stess the real risks of burns from hot water, tripping hazard (in Deck saloon) and accidental gybe (with inexperienced helm).

Get the practicalities of using the heads and boiling a kettle done then do nothing!! except assist the others do their requested tasks. I usually only berth the boat and actually enjoy it when I sail it as nearly always others are doing all the jobs on my boat - but watched and assisted as necessary by me.

Involving others keeps them interested and the best learning is on the job with encouragement not criticism.
 
Sailing with novices

I'm a newbie and one of the things I've noticed is that experienced sailors (even instructors) sometimes forget just how ignorant of sailing matters it's possible to be.

My attitude to everything on board was changed earlier this year when I was on a yacht involved in an accident that could have been extremely serious. Everybody on board (me included) made various assumptions which, if they had not been made, might have meant that the accident wouldn't have happened.

So to those of you who take family and friends out, try to remember what it was like the first time you set foot on board a boat of any sort.
 
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