When is a boat treailer illegal

[Jim@sea]

I have bought an ancient speedboat. I have been told that the trailer underneath it is illegal to use. It is an un-braked trailer. It was the trailer supplied with the boat when new.
As I understand things legislation does not work retrospectively. If you have a 1960's Mini it wont fail an MOT for not having seat belts because in those days they did not fit them. Or in the case of an old Vauxhall where the Indicator arm would rise up out of the door pillor and stick out ready to clip a pedestrian in the head when going round a corner this would get an Mot as legislation changed in later years.
My trailer being an un-braked trailer if sold today would not be allowed to carry more than 750 kilos.
My boat, trailer,outboard, weighs the same now at 800 kilos as it did new. (14ft boat) which is 50 kilos over the 750 kilos for a un-braked trailer.
As an Ex-Mot tester I can say that the chassis is perfect, the leaf springs are the same as fitted to a Morris Minor, and the two tyres will each carry a load of 520 kilos each.
So do I have a problem, or is the trailer salesman just trying to sell me a new trailer (but giving me £250 in Part Exchange for the old one)
And as mentioned, when sold by a UK boatyard in the 1960's, it was fit for the purpose THEN.

 

[gjgm]

You could try NTTA.
However, I think the 750kg limit for unbraked includes the weight of the trailer, not simply the load. So that probably puts the load down to 600kg, or so.
In the end, somewhat depends on what your insurance co. would say if it all goes sour. I have heard of some guy who wrote off his Range Rover and boat and got zilch, as the set up was deemed illegal and so not insurance covered. A costly outcome.
Personally, I dont think I'd care to tow with a 50 year old trailer, but...

 

[Jim@sea]

You could try NTTA.

Personally, I dont think I'd care to tow with a 50 year old trailer, but...

You know the expression, "Built like a brick whatsit" well this trailer was made properly, it has 3" galvanised box section chassis, proper leaf springs, tyres which will carry a 1ton gross weight, and the wheel bearings have been matched by a bearing company to be the same as fitted to a single wheel trailer carrying 1ton made by a well known trailer company.
Markings on the trailer show "not to exceed 1 ton gross" and the winch says not to be used on humans, if that means anything.
So in fact if I had a choice I would rather tow this trailer than the trailer I have just sold which had to be welded and the suspension units replaced.

 

[landlockedpirate]

From your description, I don't think there is any problem with trailer safely carrying the boat. However the legislative problem is to do with the tow car. The law says that the maximum a car can tow is 750kg unbraked, this means your boat and trailer would be over weight and illegal. This would give you all sorts of problems with plod and your insurance company if stopped.

Can you not retrofit some brakes ?

I have mentioned that I regularly used to tow illegal (but safe) boats, the chances of getting stopped are much higher now and I just wouldn't risk it.

 

[ValleyForge]

I suspect many of us on here with small ish boats are in the same predicament with either unbraked trailers or more likely trailers with brakes that don't work. However the law is the law & if the rozzers want to get you on this technicality they will. I guess its a risk thing & if it worries you then get brakes fitted so as to comply.

FWIW when I had the '63 alli delta that had a nice trailer with no brakes, all up with fuel, skis etc. I'm sure it would have tipped over the limit but I didn't worry about it. And of course bear the salutory story above about no payoff in the event of an accident. Must admit thats made me think to check Pied Piper's before the winter !

 

[ProDave]

Another aspect to the unbraked trailer law, as as well as the maximum gross 750Kg, the towing vehicle must also be twice the weight of the trailer.

So for your (erhem) 750Kg trailer, you need a 1500Kg towcar, and for your 1 ton trailer, a 2 ton towcar.

Once you add brakes to a trailer, that two times towcar weight no longer applies, and you are then just limited to the towcar manufacturers towing limit for the vehicle.

So if you do risk it, and get stopped for a spot check, you might blag that the gross weight is no more than 750Kg (which they probably won't be able to verify by the roadside) but they will be able to verify if your towcar is at least 1500Kg

since "your boat, trailer,outboard, weighs the same now at 800 kilos as it did new" there's a simple solution. Remove the outboard from the boat, and carry it in the car. That will probably reduce the weight enough to make it legal (or close enough that nobody is likely to check) Likewise remove any other heavy objects like an anchor etc and cary them in the towcar.

 

[penfold]

On a practical note, if you can find a weigh bridge out there that's accurate to 50kg you're doing well. If the trailer looks well prepared, tows in a safe and stable fashion and you're using a suitably sized tug driven conservatively you are very unlikely to attract the attention of dibble, but it is against the law. Retrofitting brakes to the old trailer may be worthwhile if you can do it yourself, but if you need to pay someone it may make more sense to just buy a new trailer.

 

[rafiki_]

Sorry Jim, the analogy with cars of a certain age does not work. Until recently, there was no registration scheme for trailers, so no formal way of determining age. Today is is different, although small trailers (O1/O2) are only really registered by the dealer. Larger (truck) trailers need to be plated by VOSA, which covers the registration. So your trailer is covered by the Construction and Use regs which include trailers above 750kg need brakes.

You ignore this at your peril, especially with regards to insurance.

 

[ValleyForge]

I have bought an ancient speedboat.

Interestingly & completely off topic what is the ancient craft ?

 

[DAKA]

I agree with most of the above posts for towing up to 60mph on a motorway or dual carriageway however if you are just towing a mile or two to your local beach/lake I dont think a lot of that nonsense is applicable.

In fact as long as you dont cause an obstruction I think you can do up to 30mph with your unbraked trailer on almost any road with the exception to motorways.
The only regulations regarding towable weights displayed on the car and gross weight displayed on the trailer is in respect to qualifying for an increased speed up to 50mph on minor roads and 60 mph on motorways and dual carriageways incorporating central reservations.

(needs checking as its a long time since I had a caravan/trailer boat so I could be out of date)

 

[Jim@sea]

Interestingly & completely off topic what is the ancient craft ?

Its a 1989 Bayliner 150 Capri BR. UK Supplied new with present trailer and 50hp Force Outboard which would have been 800kilos Gross.
and in Westmorland. (Yealand Redmayne)
Needs an engine. Hull, seats, etc perfect.

 

[landlockedpirate]

Its a 1989 Bayliner 150 Capri BR. UK Supplied new with present trailer and 50hp Force Outboard which would have been 800kilos Gross.
and in Westmorland. (Yealand Redmayne)
Needs an engine. Hull, seats, etc perfect.

I remember seeing this boat at Earls Court when they 1st started importing them in the 80's, it was light years ahead of all the UK boats at the time.

I'm not convinced you will be over the 750kg unless the trailer is very very heavy. For comparison a similar age 16ft Fletcher with a 90hp 2 stroke was under 700kg on the trailer.

 

[Jim@sea]

Of course tomorrow I am doing what I should have done before I mentioned this on the forum. I am taking the boat and trailer to a weighbridge and that will clarify the position. I am elaborating over this as when I bought my last boat the boatyard underestimated the weight of the boat they were selling me and the trailer they sold me only legally carried 1900 kilos whereas the boat weighed 2300 kilos.

 

[Croc]

I have seen boats on trailers that are the stuff of nightmares...but in 50 years of dinghy sailing I have never seen Plod get out of his comfy car or off his arse to check one. So it may be illegal but you are unlikely to be caught until something goes wrong.

 

[PCUK]

Regarding ProDave's comment. If you put the outboard in the boot you will still be over the limit as the gross weight covers the trailer and load and the car and load.

If your unbraked trailer and load is over 750Kg then it is illegal. But as said the chances of being stopped are low unless the whole thing looks like a dangerous wreck!

 

[ProDave]

Regarding ProDave's comment. If you put the outboard in the boot you will still be over the limit as the gross weight covers the trailer and load and the car and load.

No the limit for an unbraked trailer is 750Kg gross.

The load carried in the car is altogether separate.

So by moving the OB from the boat, to inside the car, you may be able to reduce the gross trailer weight to make it legal. Something to try out when you visit the weighbridge, if you find the trailer is over weight, try it again without the OB. Other heavy thinks like anchors and chain may also be moved into the car to lighten the trailer load.

Of course you must also make sure you don't carry more load in the boot than the car is designed for, and don't exceed each individual axle weight limit, but that is a separate issue, and again something to check on the weighbridge.

If you find at the weighbridge that the trailer is within 750Kg, then the slip of paper from the weighbridge will be something useful to carry with you to show the plod if you are stopped.

 

[PCUK]

Sorry Dave I left out the word 'Train'. Gross train weight covers the weight of the entire package car, load and trailer so moving the outboard doesn't in fact make any difference as the car still has to carry it.

 

[ProDave]

Sorry Dave I left out the word 'Train'. Gross train weight covers the weight of the entire package car, load and trailer so moving the outboard doesn't in fact make any difference as the car still has to carry it.

Yes, but only an issue if you are towing with a small car. If the gross weight is too much for the car, then a bigger towcar is the only option, but the implication here is the towcar is not the limiting factor.

I used to caravan a lot, and there's lots on the net about caravans being found overweight on spot checks, and almost always, the resolution has been to move some luggage from the caravan to the car, then plod was happy for them to continue their journey. My understanding is they would rather resolve the issue and allow the journey to continue, with the driver a little educated, rather than prosecute.

It can be a balancing act shifting loads around, but it just may in this case turn an illegal load, into a legal load.

I await with interest the figures from the weighbridge.

 

[PCUK]

Totally agree Dave.

 

[Jim@sea]

I await with interest the figures from the weighbridge.

Obviously I am one of the type of people who look for problems where non exist. The boat and trailer weighed 520 kilos so I have a 230 kilo margin for extras.
So add a 75 kilo Outboard. 25 kilos Petrol. 20 kilo Auxiluary, 25kilos inflatable, 10 kilo anchor, etc., I am still only at 675 Kilos
Which of course means that when I sell it the boat,trailer, and outboard are "Street Legal"