When Gloss varnish too glossy and Satin is too dull

[Jcorstorphine]

I am in the process of refurbishing my LM28 and have got to the more enjoyable aspects of yacht maintenance and that is varnishing restored sapele mahogany.

My problem is that I find the Satin yacht varnish too matt and the gloss too glossy.

I was wondering if anyone has tried a 50/50 or 30/70 mixture of gloss and satin to obtain a "just right" (bit of a Goldilocks question)

The varnish I am using is Hempel Dura-Gloss and Hempel Dura-Satin.

The Hempel varnish is a bit quick drying so trying to brush out large area such as toilet door can be a bit of a race to keep a wet edge. I wonder if adding a little Deks Olje might slow the drying time.

 

[Yngmar]

With Le Tonkinois, the matting agent (Gelomat) comes in a separate bottle and you can mix in as much or as little as you want to achieve the desired level of gloss. You can also apply gloss and then polish to whichever level you want later, but that's quite a bit of extra work (beautiful when done though, but only bothered with it once).

Since you bought Hempel, I'd give them a ring about mixing gloss and satin, they're a big company and should have a helpline for such questions. It's probably okay, but why not ask, you paid for the helpline already

The right thinner to use for slowing down drying times in warm weather should be in the instructions.

 

[MM5AHO]

+1 for LeTonkinois

 

[Rafiki]

This is what I have used on my Westerly satin finish version.

https://www.wood-finishes-direct.com/product/sadolin-pv67-heavy-duty-varnish

Extremely hard wearing finish, indistinguishable from the original. Not readily available in DIY sheds, quite expensive but a little really does go a long way, need temperature in range 15-20 degrees, and a bit fiddly mixing catalyst at 10% ( syringes from ebay ideal for this purpose)

 

[lw395]

You could use the satin, then give it a buff over with ordinary furniture polish?

personally, for nice bits of wood, the finish I favour is several coats of clear gloss polyurethane, with one final coat of satin. Not right for every occasion to be fair. But I dislike deep 'cloudy' going on 'muddy' finishes.

Some people use several coats of 2 pot gloss then rub it with 2000 grit w&d. Or even wire wool?

 

[LittleSister]

Whatever you decide to do, please do report back how it turned out.

I've got an earlier LM (27) that needs some internal bits revarnishing. I want to maintain what I think someone on here described as the 'Scandi-vibe', and not have it dark and glossy like some Victoria boudoir, or looking like some bland modern kitchen unit from B&Q.

 

[Concerto]

This is what I have used on my Westerly satin finish version.

https://www.wood-finishes-direct.com/product/sadolin-pv67-heavy-duty-varnish

Extremely hard wearing finish, indistinguishable from the original. Not readily available in DIY sheds, quite expensive but a little really does go a long way, need temperature in range 15-20 degrees, and a bit fiddly mixing catalyst at 10% ( syringes from ebay ideal for this purpose)

A bit late for the OP and you, but most boat builders do not use varnish on internal woodwork, they use lacquer.

Westerly used Morrells lacquer 450 which is a low odour high build up acid cured lacquer. It is available in a variety of finishes from gloss to satin. https://www.morrells.co.uk/products...50-low-odour-high-build-acid-catalyst-lacquer. I have just bought 5 litres of 30% sheen and thinners for just under £60.00 for my Fulmar.

The 450 lacquer can be brushed on. Once the catalyst is mixed in, the lacquer should be applied within 12 hours or so. However, it can be recoated after 2-3 hours and only 3 coats is normally required. So you should do a complete boat in a day. Good ventilation is recommended. Morrells supply wood finishes to the furniture industry and have branches all over the UK. I also bought some water based floor varnish

 

[Elessar]

I am in the process of refurbishing my LM28 and have got to the more enjoyable aspects of yacht maintenance and that is varnishing restored sapele mahogany.

My problem is that I find the Satin yacht varnish too matt and the gloss too glossy.

I was wondering if anyone has tried a 50/50 or 30/70 mixture of gloss and satin to obtain a "just right" (bit of a Goldilocks question)

The varnish I am using is Hempel Dura-Gloss and Hempel Dura-Satin.

The Hempel varnish is a bit quick drying so trying to brush out large area such as toilet door can be a bit of a race to keep a wet edge. I wonder if adding a little Deks Olje might slow the drying time.

I use epiphanes.
You put it on as gloss, the 1st 4 coats as decreasingly thinned gloss.
Then you put the satin (called rubbed effect) over the top. It gives the satin a real depth. And an impatient clot like me can get a lovely finish. However the amount of satinyness (is that a word)is fixed.

In the past I tried laquer and you can have a huge choice of %age of satinyness. But I found it difficult to apply.

 

[fredrussell]

This thread is a terrifying read for me, a sufferer of varnishfobia. I wonder if the OP has tried International Woodskin? I've had great results with it on my boat (washboards) and two years on they're looking good.

 

[Rafiki]

A bit late for the OP and you, but most boat builders do not use varnish on internal woodwork, they use lacquer.

Westerly used Morrells lacquer 450 which is a low odour high build up acid cured lacquer. It is available in a variety of finishes from gloss to satin. https://www.morrells.co.uk/products...50-low-odour-high-build-acid-catalyst-lacquer. I have just bought 5 litres of 30% sheen and thinners for just under £60.00 for my Fulmar.

The 450 lacquer can be brushed on. Once the catalyst is mixed in, the lacquer should be applied within 12 hours or so. However, it can be recoated after 2-3 hours and only 3 coats is normally required. So you should do a complete boat in a day. Good ventilation is recommended. Morrells supply wood finishes to the furniture industry and have branches all over the UK. I also bought some water based floor varnish

I'm pretty sure that the Sadolin PV67 is very similar to the Morrells ie acid catalyst, requires ventilation, fast drying etc etc. I doubt if you saw the results you would tell the difference. Agreed that the Morrels stuff is cheaper, but when I researched it appeared to reccommend spay application.

 

[AndrewB]

Just redone my interior woodwork, one coat of Hemple Dura Satin over two (or in some places three) coats of Hemple Dura Gloss. Looks as good as it gets, specially with a bit of wax polish. The tricky bit was getting this varnish in Greece. They all want to sell me Epifanes - overpriced and far inferior to Hemple.

 

[Concerto]

I'm pretty sure that the Sadolin PV67 is very similar to the Morrells ie acid catalyst, requires ventilation, fast drying etc etc. I doubt if you saw the results you would tell the difference. Agreed that the Morrels stuff is cheaper, but when I researched it appeared to reccommend spay application.

Spraying is recommended, but according to their information sheet and their staff, it can be applied by brush. Being a perfectionist using a brush, I expect a good finish.

 

[bedouin]

In the old days I would dilute varnish with 10-20% white spirit (or appropriate solvent) and then apply several thin coats - sanding lightly with P600+ (wet) in between coats. That would build up a good deep colour that is not too shiny. (Spot someone who used to race a firefly )

However I suspect the formulation may have changed since then so I don't know if it would still work.

 

[jwilson]

I've mixed satin and gloss for the final coat over several coats of gloss in the past - you can get a half-satin finish. Always use gloss as the base coats though.

 

[Elessar]

Just redone my interior woodwork, one coat of Hemple Dura Satin over two (or in some places three) coats of Hemple Dura Gloss. Looks as good as it gets, specially with a bit of wax polish. The tricky bit was getting this varnish in Greece. They all want to sell me Epifanes - overpriced and far inferior to Hemple.

far inferior - wow.
I've not tried the hemple varnish but I know their antifouls are good.
In what way is the varnish so much better?

 

[AndrewB]

far inferior - wow.
I've not tried the hemple varnish but I know their antifouls are good.
In what way is the varnish so much better?

Maybe just me but I seem to get a far better, even finish with less risk of runs or screening. Epifanes also seems to go off quite quickly in the tin. If you use it over several days by the end it is tacky and does not flow easily. (But this is Greece where temperatures are high).

 

[kacecar]

I had a similar problem. At the time I was using common-or-garden Ronseal Outdoor varnish (oil based). Using a very unscientific and rather imprecise mixing method I tried various proportions of satin and gloss varnish to arrive at what I felt was a good match with the existing woodwork. In my case it was a 50/50 mix, although the difference between the eventual 50/50 mix and a 40/60 and a 60/40 was, for me, hard to detect.

 

[Jcorstorphine]

Thank you all for your replies and suggestions of alternative products. I tried a 50/50 mix of Hempel satin and gloss but I felt that it was still too glossy so will try a 70 / 30 mix. I really do want to get the finish right as a lot of work is going into the wheelhouse as I have been re-veneering the faded and yellowed sapele mahogany.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

Remember it's only the top coat that has the 'finish' you require.

All the base coats should be gloss as multiple layers of satin of any make gives a very muddy finish.
It's also easier to see runs and other imperfections as you build up the layers if using gloss.

 

[matthewriches]

I used Epifanes high gloss then once cured, hit it with some ultra fine scotchbrite which have a perfect gloss that wasn't too glossy and didn't look dirty like satin seems to.

i tested Ronseal as well but it was rubbish and just looked muddy compared to the clarity of the Epifanes, even once knocked back a bit.