Whats wrong with todays Magazines

[Sailfree]

Have just read Nicho's excellent post "My Atlantic Adventure" and realised that it is for articles like this that I buy magazines to read! That's it now - I am fed up with how to build a sea toilet with a bucket and a length of tube and all for only 25p so I won't renew my subscription to Practical Boat Owner. Do I really want to spend the money on Yachting World when most of the boats they write about I will never see or own and the reviewers on anything mainstream are so biased towards racing that I never feel that the review is written for the likes of me that justs loves to get out sailing any weekend/holiday I can. Are the magazines incestuous and are only there to provide a living for an inner core of writers?
It appears to me that Yachting Monthly could do no better than read scuttlebutt and approach contributers with a view to publishing their contributions albeit that some would need editing. An appropriate fee would encourage many more contributors to post potential articles on scuttlebutt and increase the variety and interest of posts on this forum. If one of the magazines wanted a starting place just look at some of the long threads. These have obviously created a lot of interest in scuttlebutt readers or are we all so extreme that our opinions should only be shared between consenting adults in private?

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[AndrewB]

This is unfair.

Because ...

(1) Almost every issue of YM carries a contributed article about a bad conditions cruising experience, and lessons learnt, of the type written by Nicho.

(2) More postings on these boards are about equipment and maintenance than about sailing experience or technique, suggesting that the information about the former is at least as popular with posters - and by implication with readers - as the latter.

(3) I'm aware that a number of posters here have contributed to YM - don't know about PBO - and that some mag articles have been based on something previously raised as a posting. I believe a modest fee is paid for most types of published contribution. (Incidentally I've also noticed articles appearing in YM that seem to relate to concerns that were being raised here, and wondered if it was just coincidence).

(4) The proportion of postings that are as good as Nicho's, and suitable for publication even after proper reworking, has to be extremely low. I should think the editorial staff must be disappointed by this, as potentially these boards must have seemed like a promising source of material.

(Not that I would hesitate to criticise IPC mags on other grounds!)

 

[ParaHandy]

Re: ah but ...

there is a poster hereabouts ... most prolific ... who writes for one of the motor boat mags and most interesting they are to, a veritable feast of prose in fact ... but, apparently, pay is v. v. poor (according to him/her)

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[townquay]

I wholeheartedly agree with 'Sailfree' and his comments. I gave up PBO a couple of years ago after 18 yrs as a subscriber because I had a fear that I would eventually see an article advising on how to choose an acorn and grow an oak tree from which to build a boat !
I also subscribed to YM for many years but it really did become a bit 'same-o, same-o ' month after month. (Also, I and a couple of mates began to refer to it as 'The Tom Cunliffe Diaries' - despite my high regard for that particular contributor)
I now buy PBO and YM on a 'look- &- see-first' basis and it's surprising how few editions I now feel have any quantity of really new and interesting articles of general boater's interest to justify my purchasing that month's copy. I suppose I buy 2 or three PBO's a year and 5 or 6 Y.M.s. (Probably it'd be less except for the free harbour charts)
As a point of interest I did write to those two mags when I cancelled my subscription and I did receive a curtious reply.

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[milltech]

Re: This is unfair.

...but surely most of us are not writing for publication. We need answers to questions or we're being flippant. I can think of several contributors whose prose is both good enough and entertaining enough for any number of magazine articles.

There is no doubt that the mags have gone down hill in the last few years, YM used to be a good read but it isn't any longer. There's no "style" to them anymore and literary merit doesn't seem to count as much as being PC. PC = boring, (well too often it does anyway).

I agree that Yachting Monthlys "Destinations" pull out guides are the only good reason to buy, but it depends on the destination since most of us could comfortably get into Plymouth with a white stick even if we left the labrador ashore.

How about a list of good fiction writers with boating interests? Such a list might even be read by an Editor with good result. On one similar thread someone suggested Editors would not outsource because it's cheaper to use staff writers, but lets face it there's nothing very cheap about a Yachting Magazine so we deserve something decent.





<hr width=100% size=1>John
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.allgadgets.co.uk>http://www.allgadgets.co.uk</A>

 

[jamesjermain]

Some interesting points

Some interesting points raised here which deserve a reply.

1) Many people find that PBO is the magazine for them when they first start sailing then, as they gain experience/knowledge, YM's greater involvement with actual cruising and tales of other people's exploits is more to their taste. This is a natural progression which has always happened

2) It is also a natural progression that a YM reader may well find that some of the seamanship and instructional features are dealing with subjects they now know well. However, the cruise yarns and pilotage guides are always new and interesting and even the most basic 'how to' features are good revision. YM has an astonishingly loyal readership by most comsumer magazine standards.

3) We do monitor Scuttlebutt closely and article ideas are regularly generated from concerns and discussions on the site.

4) I have been in touch with Nicho and suggested he redo his article for publication in YM and he is actively considering it.

5) Writing a piece for Scuttlebutt and creating an article for YM are two very different things. The most obvious is that we need good illustrations for the YM while on Scuttlebutt the words have to do the work. Also, in YM there is more scope for creative writing while on Scuttlebutt the prose has to be short and sweet.

6)Contributors are offered a fee. It is not huge but it can provide a few extra goodies for the 'other woman'.

7)YM tries to provide a balance of articles and technical features which will interest a broad church of cruising yachtsmen. Inevitably all of it will not be of interest to all our readers each month but I hope most of you will find most of it worth reading most of the time.

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[MrG]

Re: Is it Me?

While I agree largely with James' comments, I feel that something has been lost in YM.
It could well be me being older and possibly wiser, I used to read YM and it used to inspire me to visit the places mentioned, usually blue skies / clear waters / white sandy beaches.
Now I find i'm quite happy planning trips in the English Channel.
So is it me?

<hr width=100% size=1>Mark

 

[NigeCh]

Gardener\'s World ...

There's nothing wrong with today's sailing magazines. If you go back say to the 70's you'll find that although the same things go round again and again just as you'll find that there are new things that you didn't know about before.

The value of today's magazines are in re-reading them when they are about 2-3 years old ... and that's when, IMO, they become of value. It's odd, but when the current sailing mag pops through the postbox the scanning time is about 10 minutes .... but when re-read 2 years later, they are worth re-reading word for word - I've had more enjoyment going through old issues than I've had reading next months issue.

The quality today is better than it was say 10, 15, 20 years ago ... and it's also nice reading the adverts to see who has fallen by the wayside .... but like Gardener's World all popular magazines have to go round in circles as there are always a bunch of newbies coming in .... just as we were once a bunch of newbies. And I'll quite happily say that no matter how much the mags go round the circles, the circles remind me of what I've forgotten and they re-teach me some of the essentials that I've put aside and completely forgotten.

If I have a gripe then I would ask for a single magazine that encompasses the best of Practical Sailor, Practical Boat Owner, Yachting Monthly, Sailing Today, Yachting World, and Cruising World.


<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by NigeCh on 05/11/2003 15:27 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[jamesjermain]

Re: Is it Me?

Errr! Probably?

<hr width=100% size=1>JJ

 

[tcm]

Creating more Nicho-style stories

Nicho's story does indeed have the guts of a good article, no question. My thoughts are

1) we all enjoyed reading the story, tho a magazine editor will want to know - what's the message? - "don't do this"? or "gibraltar in late oct is awful"? or "stay in harbour"? - or what?
There wouldn't have to be much tweaking to do this really.
The message could be that nightmares come in threes. Or in Nicho's case, sailing nightmares come by the caseload, frequently in liquid form or very loosely packed, and are delivered by the Almighty at high speed direct to your foredeck. (ooh, yeah, you could use summink like that mebbe)

2) There aren't that many people who can write coherently. Well, yes there are, but they don't get into noteworthy scrapes or voyages once per month.

3) real-life boating exploits ain't cheap. Compared with almost any other special interest magazines, boaty activities (or near-disasters) are expensive activities in which to participate, and then write about. So, writers have to (at their own expense) put themselves in daft/adveturous situations, and then write about them, as nicho did. As others indicate it's unlikely that the fee from YM will pay for a regular flight home from casablanca, let alone any rental or food (spose the food budget wasn't a major part of this partic story but erm anyway...)

4) Are readers gagging for it? I mean, it's fun to have the occassional aargh bang crash slam story, but I'm pretty sure that some readers or their crew would be somewhat put off if every single month there was a story of diaster encountered and death narrowly avoided. Mind you, suppose the safety gear chandlers would make a few quid. I think there have been letters about this.

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[NigeCh]

ARC 2000 (Raven, Northwind 55)

Left Monaco and had a fair breeze to Gib. Stayed there 4 days and stocked up. Headed off for Las Palmas and had to use the spinnaker as a genniker.

Left Las Palmas and entered Rodney Bay 16 days later.

The only trouble from Monaco to Rodney Bay was that we were downwind all the way: 4,600 miles of sailing and it all went right .... Perhaps I'm a Jonah. I've done 7 transats, some summers and some winters and have yet to have a proper Atlantic storm .... Perhaps I've just been lucky.

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[robp]

I think that Scuttlebut opinions are regularly repeated in YM. I was reading recently about SB opinions reinforcing YM's campaign for Gipsy Moth. I'm sure that editorial regularly look at what's going on here. There are also regular readers' accounts and experiences. However, you're right in that longer accounts, even serialised, would be welcome. Maybe even fictional? Maybe Nicho will be contacted??

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[robp]

Re: Doh, read the other posts! NM

~

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[jonjo]

Re: Who has changed?

I think there comes a point in any leisure pursuit where magazines no longer stimulate the seasoned practitioner.

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[jonjo]

Re: Minor irritants

I think the editorial teams do a good job in general but here are some specifics that irritate me:

1 - Equipment group reviews that get replicated in all UK mags within an issue or two.

2 - Second-look type reviews where the said private boat ends up on the market soon after. In such cases the article is little more than a free advertorial for the private owner.

3 - Industry back scratching i.e. the recent case in the "what the surveyor recommends" series where the private buyer was an industry pro, one time boat dealer and boat yard owner. I would like to see a new series titled "What the Pro's own" but the current series should be about guidance for new yachtsmen and not free surveys to mates in the trade.

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[vyv_cox]

Surprising....

that the current plague of fly-on-the-wall TV programmes is not replicated in the mags. There must be enormous potential in boat purchase, repair, rebuild, passage making, seasickness remedies, et. al. ;~)

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[kingfisher]

Getting into PLymouth...

...would be an adventure for me. Oostende on the other hand I can do with my eyes closed (well, one eye on the harbour lights anyway). Don't assume that all of YM readers are from the UK, or even the Solent for that matter.

Same with the rest of the content. Some are more interested in DIY than others. I believe the that the balance in the IPC publications remains fine:
PBO: the "Blue Peter" aspect: how to make a wind vane autopilot with a bog role, a cork and an egg box.
YM: cruising guides to destinations, where you keep the cut out because one day you might actualy get there. Reviews of boats where, if you sell the car, remorgage the house and get rid of the wife (not by divorce though, too expensive, so another "solution" needed) and the kids (well, they got married at 14 in some states in the US, so why not here), you can maybe afford the monthly payements on that BavBenJen.
YW: a man can dream, can he ? I mean, there's boats in there that you can't afford, even with a winning lottery ticket.

<hr width=100% size=1>Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com

 

[Elissaar]

Having watched and read these forums both with interest and with great amusement for several months I have finally plucked up the courage to send a post, so please be gentle!

I have sailed on and off for the past 30 years (since I was a tot) and have often read PBO and YM (more recently sailing today). For those very experienced in the art of sailing (I don't count myself in that fortunate enclave), I can imagine that many articles must seem very samy and repetetive. I would agree with James's comments about the evolution of the reading experience in transitioning between from PBO to YM but both magazines in recent times seem to have got into a groove of repetiveness.

One of the most interesting series is the review of boats of the past (I was particularly interested in the Snapdragon review since my parents used to own an 890), this is all very good....but what happened to the reviews of some of these older models? Not all of us can afford the rather desirable Sweden 42 (nice article James) or a large Jeuneau with racing tendencies and may actually prefer the less than fashionable designs of a bygone age. What about second hand reviews of boats from the 60's 70's and 80's with all their little foibles and characters?

What about the gadgets these boats had, such as the anemometer with a little ball in a tube which you pointed into the wind and all those seafarer echo sounders? These all seem to have been lost in the wake of progress and chartplotters.

Also, where have all these boats gone - have gaggles of them been turned into floating restaurents or new sea defences for new marinas or are they all residing in the marina in the sky?

Sorry a rather long and probably pointless post! Just some thoughts as part of the debate and of course IMHO, as I said my first post ever, will now check the weather forecast for the weekend and actually do some work!

Simon

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[milltech]

Re: Getting into PLymouth...

Well I haven't been there but I think I'd probably say the same about Oostende. I used Destinations to get into Paimpol some time back and with few marks and big jagged rocks all round I found the waypoints very helpful and the pilotage notes a comfort.

The offshore coast by St. Malo probably makes me "feel" as if I'd be happier with the current "Destinations" on hand, although that's a biggish port that should present few problems. It's getting into the little places that is fun, and more comforting still with a guiding hand.


<hr width=100% size=1>John
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.allgadgets.co.uk>http://www.allgadgets.co.uk</A>

 

[Sailfree]

Interested to read the replys and I hope the editors pick up some of the points made. I started this thread as a result of reading Nichos excellent article. I would love to see articles like this published more often, followed by an interview between the poster and the editorial/sailing "experts" on what possibly could be done better. In this case I picked up that where possible relying on well reefed sails for longer reduces slamming and if necessary to motorsail at slower speed may be best. I would be interested whether experts consider using a drogue would have been better once clear of shipping?
I am one of those that just bought a boat and went out there and did it and while dinghy racing taught us how to sail I now realise that the commencing big boat sailing with a 1 week day skipper course just put us on the first rung of the sailing experience ladder. 5 years later we are on the second rung with the usual number of mistakes but fortunately no injuries except to my pride. I am happy to benefit and learn from others experience especially if the lessons learned are well explained.

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