What's wrong with a bit of prop walk?

[Woodlouse]

All boats need to be moving astern before the rudder will answer because until you start moving there is no flow of water over it.

Personally I like the predictability of prop kick. I know when I enter a harbour immediately which berths are easy to get into, which will be difficult and even which are sometimes impossible. Certainly sometimes you will have to work against the kick but that is part of the challenge of sailing and therefore part of the pleasure.

 

[sailorman]

Sure, now berth it stbd side to with a wind blowing from stbd.

Of course propwalk can be useful, my point is that it can also work against you and it isn't always possible to re-structure your manoeuvre to take advantage of it. My boat need more than a trace of sternway before she follows the rudder too.

I'd just prefer less propwalk, not necessarily nil.

as it happens i do as i changed berths 4 yrs ago so she pulls away from the finger, a different approach is req, drop her in astern on tick-over so no real kick.
Often single handed too.
i have a MaxProp & PRM box so could easily change the prop rotation but after 15 yes of ownership i will stay with what is now second nature

 

[Victoria Sponge]

Assuming it can be used to advantage...

Better, I feel to have a boat that follows the rudder in reverse as it would going forwards. Just as predictable but perhaps requiring a more precise level of control as you lose the option to get the boat into approximately the right posn and then use propwalk to crab into position

Would you like a car that didn't steer properly...?

It's a boat not a car, and yes if you know what you're doing you can use it to your advantage, or take it into consideration.

 

[Angele]

I guess it is all about what you are used to.

Since I stopped being "just" crew and started skippering, every boat I chartered was an AWB with minimal or no propwalk. Same applies to Angele (although she is not "average" to me! ).

So, I have yet to experience the delights, and learn the necessary skills, of handling a boat with a lot of propwalk.

If I think back to my days of chartering, when I was a lot less experienced in boat handling, then I suspect a boat with a strong (but unexpected) propwalk could have caught me out. It is certainly easier on the charterer if similar looking boats maneouvre in a predictable fashion.

I suspect charter companies like their boats that way, and their requirements probably dictate a lot of the way that new (cruising) boats at the cheaper end of the market are designed.

 

[Iain C]

What's wrong with the car analogy? I don't think we were talking about the boat feeling like it has mild understeer whilst the car has snap oversteer! But if you has a car that had significantly less lock one way than the other, there would be times when manoeuvring that you would slide into impossible spaces, other times when you'd be doing a 32 point turn. The trick is, don't get yourself into a 32 point turn situation!

My boat propwalks a fair bit, and yes, I use it to my advantage, and I can turn more or less in my own length without ever moving the tiller. But for every manoeuvre that makes you look like a hero, you will always end up with a few "hmmm, this is going to be fun" scenarios too before you've even started the engine.

But for anyone who really, seriously says that they'd rather have prop walk than none, I'd probably ask them "ok, which way then?". Personally, I'd rather have a boat that would go exactly where it's asked to under engine, sail 10 degrees flatter upwind and 20 degrees higher making 5 degrees less leeway, but I'll just bow to the laws of physics, enjoy what I have and use it to my advantage as best as I can.

 

[Bilgediver]

All in all, I wonder where this movement for minimum or no prop-walk comes from? For me, prop-walk is a friend and ally in boat handling. Any ideas why almost any amount of prop-walk seems to be despised by some?

Reminds me of the time a 38 ft yacht moored alongside us one evening at Fort Augustas on Loch Ness. We suggested he found somewhere else unless he didn t mind being woken at 6 am and pointed to a space astern. His reply was that his boat did not go backwards. I thought he meant he had a gear box problem but what he actually meant was HE did not attempt astern running as control was a problem.

I find prop walk is a gift on most boats though I must say that on 30,000 ton cargo ships it could be a challenge in crowded anchorages.

 

[Poignard]

What would be really useful would be the ability to switch propwalk direction at will. That way you wouldn't have any bother whichever side you berthed on.

 

[rickym]

What would be really useful would be the ability to switch propwalk direction at will. That way you wouldn't have any bother whichever side you berthed on.

+1

Had a boat with 2 gears, forward and starboard! When the propwalk was against you it required a little inginuity. I now have 3 gears, forward, starboard and Stbd reverse! Can be useful at times but....when you use the walk to your advantage even I can look like a pro!

 

[davidej]

You can use prop-walk to help you turn or to put you neatly alongside a pontoon in a confined space (so long as you can choose which way round to face) and you can use it to turn the boat round in not much more that its own length.

'Here lies the rub' to quote the great bard.

Unfortunately you can't always choose your preferred side in a marina or lock and on these occasions excess prop-walk can be a right barsteward

 

[Blueboatman]

''Forward and starboard''. That is funny. And true

 

[Tranona]

''Forward and starboard''. That is funny. And true

Mine is "forward and port" - perhaps they would dance together!

 

[maby]

I'm pleased to say that our SO33i has virtually none. I still have embarrasing memories of parking our previous boat at right angles across the lock!

 

[Blueboatman]

I could add " excellent reverse and starboard..9 times out of 10..

Yet to be brave enough to work up 6knots astern and try steering as well....!

 

[Searush]

FWIW, I find that Prop wash is (to some extent anyway) optional on SR.

If I want it, I use slow revs or one very short burst of power. For controllable reversing, I use several short bursts of high revs to get the boat moving, then, in neutral she will answer the helm & a quick blast will maintain momentum.

It's all about understanding how your boat behaves in various conditions. You know the bows will blow off in a head wind, just get it blowing the "correct" way & use prop walk to manage it. React quickly & the two will largely cancel each other. Leave it later & you may well crab interestingly across the channel. Couple this with a ferry glide across the current & you could be rod straight down the middle.

OK, I'll admit it doesn't always go to plan, but it is impressive when it does & when it doesn't you should be learning lessons for next time & understanding what you forgot to allow for.

 

[Dockhead]

Prop walk is your friend only if you happen to need to turn exactly in that direction. If you need to go straight, or God forbid, turn in the other direction, it is your mortal enemy. Less is definitely better -- it gives you more options.

 

[sailorman]

Prop walk is your friend only if you happen to need to turn exactly in that direction. If you need to go straight, or God forbid, turn in the other direction, it is your mortal enemy. Less is definitely better -- it gives you more options.

It is possible to place the gear shift out of drive

 

[Woodlouse]

When I ordered a new feathering propeller I specifically ordered the astern pitch to be coarser than the ahead pitch. This meant that the prop was slightly less efficient and so more likely to kick when knocked into astern.

I love prop kick. It offers so many maneuvering opportunities that simply wouldn't be possible without it and effectively I don't think I'd be able to park in most marinas.

 

[Cruiser2B]

The trick is to really know about your prop walk and then use it to your advantage.

+2

Wot she said.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Prop walk is your friend only if you happen to need to turn exactly in that direction. If you need to go straight, or God forbid, turn in the other direction, it is your mortal enemy. Less is definitely better -- it gives you more options.

I think this is where I part company with some sailors on here. Your post illustrates almost perfectly the divide between us.

As I have already said, a moderate amount of prop walk IMHO is much much better than none at all. It means that one can pivot the boat at will - and yet if it is moderate, you can still go astern and steer in either direction.

Its how one deals with the adverse conditions of having the boat wanting to walk away from the berth as you come alongside 'the wrong side to' that sorts things out. In our current boat if I find that I have to come alongside port side to (our 'non preferred side') then I find myself coming up to the berth at a slightly more acute angle and then steering to starboard briskly as I put the engine astern to stop the boat. (None of this too fast - the old adage of only approaching a berth as fast as you want to hit it is good - alongside the 'as slow as you can, as fast as you must; the latter to allow for conditions)

As far as reversing is concerned, some boats that have even extreme examples of walking their stern one way or the other respond to bursts of power to get them going and then lots of neutral and more bursts as you gather stern way and steerage way. I find most boats respond to very gentle astern and allowing the boat to start making sternway to get the water flowing over the rudder and steering to sort itself out. The gentle use of the throttle ameliorates much of the prop walk but starts the water moving - and the flow over the rudder that you need to steer the thing.

I don't think of prop-walk as my enemy at all - its a help and not a hindrance in sorting out where I want the boat to go. If its the wrong way - then there are tricks to ameliorate it or allow for it, and I would still rather that it was there than not have it at all.

Wind and tide add to the equation - but that is what makes yachting and handling under power and sail such a fascinating and rewarding pastime...

 

[Dockhead]

When I ordered a new feathering propeller I specifically ordered the astern pitch to be coarser than the ahead pitch. This meant that the prop was slightly less efficient and so more likely to kick when knocked into astern.

I love prop kick. It offers so many maneuvering opportunities that simply wouldn't be possible without it and effectively I don't think I'd be able to park in most marinas.

So, you never need to go astern straight when maneuvering in tight places?

My previous boat with a long keel had a vicious kick to starboard. Of course if you could manage to be port-to with free space behind and to starboard, the prop walk was good. But if you needed to get out of a slip in astern, and you needed to get the boat anywhere but behind and to starboard, you simply had to warp the boat around -- no chance to move her under her own power. I had some very unpleasant situations over the years.

The present boat has only a slight kick to port. It is possible to reverse in a straight line. It is a great improvement.