What would you have done?

[richardbrennan]

Out sailing in the Eastern Solent yesterday from Portsmouth towards Ryde, close hauled on port tack into a light SE wind, making about 4 kts.

It became apparent that three Clipper yachts in line astern and moving very slowly under engine on our port side were on a collision course. We held our course and speed and were somewhat concerned that the large number of crew on the leading yacht were all looking astern and, as they made no attempt to alter their course, we were not even sure that they had seen us.

Eventually, and rather belatedly, they did alter course to starboard and passed behind us, only for us to be berated by a very angry man who said they were on exercise, had a person in the water, and that we should have given way. Once we could see the port side of the boats, we could see that the leading yacht was actually towing a dinghy on a long line, this was alongside the second yacht, and that some form of MOB recovery appeared to be taking place.

We felt rather miffed to be berated in this way, we had no way of knowing what was going on, and felt that maintaining our course and speed was the correct action on our part. What would other forumites have done?

 

[johnalison]

You clearly lack the facility of clairvoyance. From your description, it seems that there was no sign of MOB activity, and presumably no radio message beforehand, so standing on would have been normal, unless you subscribe to the 'small give way to large' theory. I think I would have carried on and put it down to one of those things before posting about it on Scuttlebutt.

 

[PHN]

Rule #1 always is to avoid collisions. Omitting the "small give way to large" discussion: if you see something that the other boat apparantly did not see then it is up to you to avoid a collision.

If the other boat would have had plenty of people onboard then at least someone should have paid attention to the surroundings - including big ships - and try to contact them by radio when needed, because other ships don't know what is going on.

 

[sailor211]

Five hoots,

In conversation with the lad , I would probably would have asked where in the irpcs on exercise was mentioned.

If really annoyed I may have suggested training on keeping a good lookout over the vhf.

Most likely I would have kept calm and carried on.

 

[scotty123]

You clearly lack the facility of clairvoyance. From your description, it seems that there was no sign of MOB activity, and presumably no radio message beforehand, so standing on would have been normal, unless you subscribe to the 'small give way to large' theory. I think I would have carried on and put it down to one of those things before posting about it on Scuttlebutt.

Complain direct to Clipper.

 

[Deleted member 478]

Complain direct to Clipper.

Good luck with that. IIRC, it's now about 3.5 years since I emailed them a complaint about radio procedure. Yep, nothing heard.

 

[DJE]

"We're on exercise" I suppose it makes a change from "We're racing".

 

[rogerthebodger]

Five hoots,

In conversation with the lad , I would probably would have asked where in the irpcs on exercise was mentioned.

If really annoyed I may have suggested training on keeping a good lookout over the vhf.

Most likely I would have kept calm and carried on.

I agree five toots "your intentions are unclear"

 

[RichardS]

The failure lies entirely with the Clipper yachts who, if they were undertaking an exercise which needed them to stand on in all circumstances, should have had someone on watch to warn other potential collision vessels by VHF. Provided that you always had sufficient time and space to take avoiding action if the Clipper yacht had not done so, you are 100% in the right.

Richard

 

[prv]

I hope I'd have had the presence of mind to shout back "where's your balls and diamond, then?", if they were claiming to be restricted by the nature of their activities. Not that I'd seriously expect a yacht playing silly-buggers with someone on the end of a rope to actually display shapes, but if they don't do anything to make their situation apparent then they shouldn't be surprised when people treat their motoring yacht as a motoring yacht. Really they're lucky you didn't decide "these idiots haven't seen me, I'm going to take my option to manoeuvre now and duck under their stern". Especially if you happen to sail something with a snag-resistant long keel and an effective rope-cutter

At the end of the day you didn't do anything wrong and nothing very bad happened. It's a pity that Shouty Man probably still thinks he's in the right because you didn't use your powers of telepathy or X-ray vision, but he's the one who has to live with his stress and blood-pressure, not you.

Pete

 

[prv]

In conversation with the lad , I would probably would have asked where in the irpcs on exercise was mentioned.

Obviously that specific wording isn't there, but I think you could make a reasonable case for something like this (gear strung between two vessels, stuff/people in the water, activity going on over the side, precise positioning required) counting as Restricted in Ability to Manoeuvre due to the nature of their work. I'm not aware of a requirement for the work to be of any specific type or on a particular commercial basis.

But of course, if you're going to claim RAM then you need to show the proper shapes.

If really annoyed I may have suggested training on keeping a good lookout over the vhf.

There's an awful lot of people listening in in the Solent, and I'm afraid the person taking to the VHF to moan always sounds like they're the bell-end, regardless of the merits of the case. We can end up mocking a particularly pompous turn of phrase for the rest of the day sometimes. I wouldn't recommend it

Most likely I would have kept calm and carried on.

Right answer. And bonus points if you're able to communicate to Shouty Man, by manner or gesture, just how calm you are keeping. It'll drive his blood-pressure even higher

Pete

 

[[70521]]

Eventually, and rather belatedly, they did alter course to starboard and passed behind us, only for us to be berated by a very angry man who said they were on exercise, had a person in the water, and that we should have given way. Once we could see the port side of the boats, we could see that the leading yacht was actually towing a dinghy on a long line, this was alongside the second yacht, and that some form of MOB recovery appeared to be taking place.

Did you see an A flag being flown?

An email to Clipper, I am still awaiting a reply to one I sent a few weeks back.

 

[capnsensible]

Good luck with that. IIRC, it's now about 3.5 years since I emailed them a complaint about radio procedure. Yep, nothing heard.

Yup, as you have found, blubbin to teacher is a waste of time.

To OP, thanks for raising it, its annoying but hey, general life I reckon. Lots of incidents happen all the time but as long as its just egos, well hey ho. Plenty of times Ive thought of a great rant sometime after, you politely refrained from that!

What would I have done? Five toots, probably and then sailed around them and made conversation. Or just carried on and filed it under whatever.

What would I have done if I was organising the excersise? Put a well briefed lookout on the bow to hail and ask nicely for peeps to alter with the explanation why. thirty or more yards, no problem. Or when in the dim and distant past I was doing this for a magazine article in probably a similar spot, we used a safety boat to bimble around with the same instructions.

Still, no doubt the blubbers (except Stingo ) are the same people who go off on one if Clipper has an unfortunate accident and go on and on about poor training.......

 

[PHN]

Did you see an A flag being flown?

That would mean a scuba diver in a stationary position.

 

[lw395]

Around the Solent, it's best to keep the 'numpty radar' on at all times.
Life is much smoother, and we get around the race course much quicker, when we make a real effort to spot Sailing Schools, Blue Ensigns, (insert chosen make of yacht here), clueless DFLs etc etc etc.
The Clipper yachts are easy to spot, there is rarely anything to be gained by going near them. Default action for anything with a logo: Avoid!

It's August, it's the weekend, don't let the muppets wind you up, or you might as well stay ashore until Septmber if you can't head further afield.

 

[PhillM]

Around the Solent, it's best to keep the 'numpty radar' on at all times.
Life is much smoother, and we get around the race course much quicker, when we make a real effort to spot Sailing Schools, Blue Ensigns, (insert chosen make of yacht here), clueless DFLs etc etc etc.
The Clipper yachts are easy to spot, there is rarely anything to be gained by going near them. Default action for anything with a logo: Avoid!

It's August, it's the weekend, don't let the muppets wind you up, or you might as well stay ashore until Septmber if you can't head further afield.

Oi leave us “blue flags” out of this. Hopefully not all of us are “numties/muppets”

 

[Seajet]

Not much of an exercise for a Clipper yot if carried out under engine - one way and another this outfit seems to have a poor grasp of PR - though the comment ' avoid anything with a logo ' couldn't be truer as that also covers certain large outfits holding ' let's all pretend we're experienced racers for the weekend ' corporate events...

 

[Elessar]

Five hoots,

In conversation with the lad , I would probably would have asked where in the irpcs on exercise was mentioned.

If really annoyed I may have suggested training on keeping a good lookout over the vhf.

Most likely I would have kept calm and carried on.

+1 to all of that.

 

[johnalison]

Oi leave us “blue flags” out of this. Hopefully not all of us are “numties/muppets”

No, I agree. Not all of them.

 

[dom]

Out sailing in the Eastern Solent yesterday from Portsmouth towards Ryde, close hauled on port tack into a light SE wind, making about 4 kts.

It became apparent that three Clipper yachts in line astern and moving very slowly under engine on our port side were on a collision course. We held our course and speed and were somewhat concerned that the large number of crew on the leading yacht were all looking astern and, as they made no attempt to alter their course, we were not even sure that they had seen us.

Eventually, and rather belatedly, they did alter course to starboard and passed behind us, only for us to be berated by a very angry man who said they were on exercise, had a person in the water, and that we should have given way. Once we could see the port side of the boats, we could see that the leading yacht was actually towing a dinghy on a long line, this was alongside the second yacht, and that some form of MOB recovery appeared to be taking place.

We felt rather miffed to be berated in this way, we had no way of knowing what was going on, and felt that maintaining our course and speed was the correct action on our part. What would other forumites have done?

Can I ask the time? Because I too saw these 3 boats around late dusk on Fri eve - pretty much off Bembridge i’d say. One also yelled something at me while motoring with all around white masthead light and nothing else. Couldn’t hear what was said but he did look somewhat angry!

Just avoid where possible (they may not!) and otherwise ignore them next time and carry on. Most Portsmouth based boats seem to adopt this approach to Clipper and Sunsail boats. Seems to be the easiest way.