What would be your prio for a survey on a boat like this.

[prinex]

In my never ending quest for a boat that would check all my flags I run into a nice 17mt boat year 1996 (Im not posting the link or model due to "sniping" ...) Lets say the price is very attractive (UK owner which is fed up with the 90 days rule and wants to get rid of it).

Now this boat which I inspected in port looks in very good shape inside, all is clean, engine room is clean, some upgrade where done on the electronic, no water stains / smells, teak was redone recently etc. It was used a summer residence with some travelling around. I will do a survey for sure and have major system inspected, sea trials etc but where I really dont want to make a mistake is on the engines (I can live with fixing not-working stuff, electrical, A/C, plumbing, generators etc but finding out I need 50K to get the engines back in shape would kill me - or better my wife would kill me).

This thing has D2840LE401 MAN engines with around 1400 hours each (I still dont know if a rebuild was done, what mainteinance etc, waiting for some paper here ). My idea was to get the local MAN guy (in Imperia) to take the things half apart (on my bill) to be sure there is no clear fault (cyl scoring, injector stuck, heat exchanger at end of life etc). Or just accept that after 1400 hours a rebuild (in case it was not already done) is in anyway (what does that even mean ? Head - cyl lining - injectors etc and how much would that cost ?) and try to lower the asking price a bit even if is really not much.

And yes is going to be a "italian tune up" boat - trolling around and the occasional run, after years of Porto-induced EGH terror I will install the sensors and make sure it runs hot enough.

Plan is to buy it as it is, put it on dry when the berth expires (owner will let me use it until Dec), and do what needs to be done to get it ready for next season.

 

[julians]

I'd be surprised if the owner would let you (or an engineer acting on your behalf) dismantle the engines.

I think the best you can do is get an oil analysis of the oil in the sump, and an inspection of the engines,gearboxes etc along with proper sea trial , and ensure that whoever you do get to inspect the engines is very familiar with those particular engines and the various ways in which they can fail.

 

[prinex]

Ok, I booked a second visit for tomorrow, I will try to get hold of invoices etc and see what has been done. Our local MAN guy is also often there in port so it may be well it knows the boat and his history.

 

[PlanB]

On a boat that old I'd have a full survey and an engine survey, incl oil analysis.

 

[snowbird30ds]

1400 hours is not a lot I'd have said, a used engine is better than one that rarely gets started.

 

[Chris H]

In my never ending quest for a boat that would check all my flags I run into a nice 17mt boat year 1996 (Im not posting the link or model due to "sniping" ...) Lets say the price is very attractive (UK owner which is fed up with the 90 days rule and wants to get rid of it).

Now this boat which I inspected in port looks in very good shape inside, all is clean, engine room is clean, some upgrade where done on the electronic, no water stains / smells, teak was redone recently etc. It was used a summer residence with some travelling around. I will do a survey for sure and have major system inspected, sea trials etc but where I really dont want to make a mistake is on the engines (I can live with fixing not-working stuff, electrical, A/C, plumbing, generators etc but finding out I need 50K to get the engines back in shape would kill me - or better my wife would kill me).

This thing has D2840LE401 MAN engines with around 1400 hours each (I still dont know if a rebuild was done, what mainteinance etc, waiting for some paper here ). My idea was to get the local MAN guy (in Imperia) to take the things half apart (on my bill) to be sure there is no clear fault (cyl scoring, injector stuck, heat exchanger at end of life etc). Or just accept that after 1400 hours a rebuild (in case it was not already done) is in anyway (what does that even mean ? Head - cyl lining - injectors etc and how much would that cost ?) and try to lower the asking price a bit even if is really not much.

And yes is going to be a "italian tune up" boat - trolling around and the occasional run, after years of Porto-induced EGH terror I will install the sensors and make sure it runs hot enough.

Plan is to buy it as it is, put it on dry when the berth expires (owner will let me use it until Dec), and do what needs to be done to get it ready for next season.

Could you ping me the contact details of your MAN engine guy please

 

[markc]

When I bought similar about 5 years ago with MTU engines, I got MTU France to do an engine survey on the same day as the survey for peace of mind. They fitted lots of additional sensors and confirmed the engines were running to factory spec. They also did oil analysis but a single report out of context isn't that helpful IMHO

 

[Portofino]

Paolo is your guy based in Imperia .

GARBARINO Paolo & C. - Officina autorizzata

Gen Q you ask ,1400 hrs are irrelevant if it’s had regular oil changes .These do 10 s of thousands of hrs .You say you hope to sight the SH , the engine works .Look for lub changes .Ideally annually.Red flag for any economic stretch to 2 or 3 yrs based on “ we only did 40 hrs last season “
Reasons .You are up against condensation in the oil in the winter and the additive package deteriorates with time not hrs .

Last Feb about early afternoon further up the coast from you the coolant temp was 8 * C when I fired them up .Remember I never said frost I said condensation.We change out oil before the summer season so it runs in theory with no water from winter condensation in as it’s warmer .

Check the coolers have been off recently and cleaned .Those engines are Labour heavy with the CAC sitting on the V .
With Labour , parts ( gaskets ) you are looking at maybe €10 K a pair .

Water pumps massive Johnson’s you are looking at €4 K inc Labour + parts for rebuilding a pair .They weep .There’s a tell tail hole Paolo will see and tell you what state they are in .Gear driven ( no belts here ) the danger is the shaft seal weeps seawater back into the engine oil .Not good .If serviced when the tell , tells you it’s ok .
So none serviced water pumps coupled with the attitude of “ I only do 40 hrs stuff another oil change “:you can see with two identical boats it’s all down to the SH , what’s been done when or not done .

Paolo knows the injector pull regime it varies from modal to modal .

He might be able to plug something in when you sea trail it or use a infra red gun etc .

The EGT thing in a 96 means you have no MAN digital gauges , but it all depends on who the builders in are , or where they on the edge in terms of Hp of torque when new? Was there back in day a desirable larger engine option ?
Eg take a S/Sker Portofino 53 , say 2005.Skip the 715 Hp VP D 12 , seek out the R6MAN 800 Hp version .More Hp more torque means less of a hard life .Both boats 17 y old same 1400 hrs .It’s a no brainier for the sake of a €20k difference to buy the larger engines .

Boro scope via injector port ie pulling them is not without complication’s.Namely they are ceased , something snaps requiring that head off etc etc .Doubt many owners of 26 yr old engines would permit that risk .Or an engineer want to start that returning after a seatrial and with a full book for the for seeable next few days .

Paolo will look at the exhaust risers for you all 4 you are looking at €5 K each for new fabricated , so €20 k .Exhaust gases and seawater injected in produces acids that eat metals inc stainless steel , it just take longer = last longer .So theres a bill in there somewhere lurking .
Very much doubt they are the originals but it would nice see something in the SH .

The 90 in 180 sounds like a convenient smoke screen .There will another reason ……find it .

 

[Portofino]

Paolo is your guy based in Imperia .

GARBARINO Paolo & C. - Officina autorizzata

Gen Q you ask ,1400 hrs are irrelevant if it’s had regular oil changes .These do 10 s of thousands of hrs .You say you hope to sight the SH , the engine works .Look for lub changes .Ideally annually.Red flag for any economic stretch to 2 or 3 yrs based on “ we only did 40 hrs last season “
Reasons .You are up against condensation in the oil in the winter and the additive package deteriorates with time not hrs .

Last Feb about early afternoon further up the coast from you the coolant temp was 8 * C when I fired them up .Remember I never said frost I said condensation.We change out oil before the summer season so it runs in theory with no water from winter condensation in as it’s warmer .

Check the coolers have been off recently and cleaned .Those engines are Labour heavy with the CAC sitting on the V .
With Labour , parts ( gaskets ) you are looking at maybe €10 K a pair .

Water pumps massive Johnson’s you are looking at €4 K inc Labour + parts for rebuilding a pair .They weep .There’s a tell tail hole Paolo will see and tell you what state they are in .Gear driven ( no belts here ) the danger is the shaft seal weeps seawater back into the engine oil .Not good .If serviced when the tell , tells you it’s ok .
So none serviced water pumps coupled with the attitude of “ I only do 40 hrs stuff another oil change “:you can see with two identical boats it’s all down to the SH , what’s been done when or not done .

Paolo knows the injector pull regime it varies from modal to modal .

He might be able to plug something in when you sea trail it or use a infra red gun etc .

The EGT thing in a 96 means you have no MAN digital gauges , but it all depends on who the builders in are , or where they on the edge in terms of Hp of torque when new? Was there back in day a desirable larger engine option ?
Eg take a S/Sker Portofino 53 , say 2005.Skip the 715 Hp VP D 12 , seek out the R6MAN 800 Hp version .More Hp more torque means less of a hard life .Both boats 17 y old same 1400 hrs .It’s a no brainier for the sake of a €20k difference to buy the larger engines .
Reason a larger engine option is more likely NOT to suffer elevated EGT as often as the weedy little brother intro modal .

Boro scope via injector port ie pulling them is not without complication’s.Namely they are ceased , something snaps requiring that head off etc etc .Doubt many owners of 26 yr old engines would permit that risk .Or an engineer want to start that returning after a seatrial and with a full book for the for seeable next few days .

Paolo will look at the exhaust risers for you all 4 you are looking at €5 K each for new fabricated , so €20 k .Exhaust gases and seawater injected in produces acids that eat metals inc stainless steel , it just take longer = last longer .So theres a bill in there somewhere lurking .
Very much doubt they are the originals but it would nice see something in the SH .