What was Patrick Laine’s previous craft? 😊

[Laser310]

The flip side is that the saloon seats are level with the water line so long passages are excellent sleeping on the full length saloon seats above the keel. You really feel very little motion and its so quiet even in rough weather.

The RM settees might be a bit above waterline - i'm not sure - but they look like pretty comfortable berths at sea.

I think the midships location is at least as important as the height: pitch and yaw being more significant motions than roll as far as comfort is concerned. I slept on the upper amidhsips bunk often on my brother's Oyster, and it was very comfortable.

But the settee berths are another semi-hard requirement for me, and many boats don't have them. It's one of the things i Like about the RM's. So many boats today have what X-Yachts call the "modern" layout: longitudinal galley, and a dinette/settee arrangement where neither of the settees will make good sea berths.

The bigger RM's have a very secure U-shaped galley which I think is best at sea, and traditional opposing settees.

The JPK cruising boats would be at the top of my list were it not for the longitudinal galley. Still, they appear to get one good settee berth out of the arrangement. One of these might work for me. If an FC 39 came for sale, I would be pretty interested.

 

[geem]

The RM settees might be a bit above waterline - i'm not sure - but they look like pretty comfortable berths at sea.

I think the midships location is at least as important as the height: pitch and yaw being more significant motions than roll as far as comfort is concerned. I slept on the upper amidhsips bunk often on my brother's Oyster, and it was very comfortable.

But the settee berths are another semi-hard requirement for me, and many boats don't have them. It's one of the things i Like about the RM's. So many boats today have what X-Yachts call the "modern" layout: longitudinal galley, and a dinette/settee arrangement where neither of the settees will make good sea berths.

The bigger RM's have a very secure U-shaped galley which I think is best at sea, and traditional opposing settees.

The JPK cruising boats would be at the top of my list were it not for the longitudinal galley. Still, they appear to get one good settee berth out of the arrangement. One of these might work for me. If an FC 39 came for sale, I would be pretty interested.

We have a longitudinal galley but it's in the passageway to the aft cabin. It works very well. Large worktop, twin sinks, loads of storage, 3 burner cooker. Works very well at sea as you have the full height bulkhead behind you that is the engine room. It's separate from the saloon so makes the saloon feel bigger.
One of the very important things for us is ventilation. We have lots of opening portlights but the boat as designed lacked deck hatches. Pretty common fault in boats design for Northern Europe. Once you get to the Tropics ventilation is super important. Lots of glass becomes a pain rather than the benefit that it is in Northern Europe. Most pilothouse boats end up with the windows covered. We added 3 deck hatches to our boat so we now have a total of 6. With the 12 opening portlight ventilation is excellent. Forward facing hatches in the Caribbean is the norm.

 

[Laser310]

We have a longitudinal galley but it's in the passageway to the aft cabin. It works very well. Large worktop, twin sinks, loads of storage, 3 burner cooker. Works very well at sea

yes - that is a great setup as well, but usually only available on boats a bit larger than i am seeking

it provides really good security for the cook.

the longitudinal galley setup that I am not partial to is the one where it's in the salon: robs you of a good sea berth, and usually does not provide good security for the cook

 

[geem]

yes - that is a great setup as well, but usually only available on boats a bit larger than i am seeking

it provides really good security for the cook.

the longitudinal galley setup that I am not partial to is the one where it's in the salon: robs you of a good sea berth, and usually does not provide good security for the cook

Agreed. I hope you find what you are looking for.

 

[John_Silver]

I think mostly the boats are not that fast upwind, but are pretty good off the wind.

I have been on a 1270 at the dock. they seem very comfortable, with very well though out ergonomics for sailing and living. very pleasant boats to be aboard.

Share your interest in the RM’s. For similar reasons and with the similar caveat, regarding durability / maintenance requirements of the WEST hull. In my case it’s the 1070+, which has caught my eye:

Cesar Dohy, at the yard has been very helpful with supply of Polars & GZ curves. On the 1070+ Polars at 40 degrees wind give 6.99 knots in 12 knots of wind. 7.4 in 20. Cracked off to 45 degrees the speeds increase to 7.25kts and 7.68, respectively. That’s the fin. So, not race boat close winded. But pretty acceptable speeds (in my book) for a 35 footer… (To confirm your ‘fast off the wind’ thoughts: at 130 degrees the 12kt speed is 8.23, the 20kt speed 10.37).

 

[geem]

Share your interest in the RM’s. For similar reasons and with the similar caveat, regarding durability / maintainable requirement of the WEST hull. In my case it’s the 1070+, which has caught my eye:

Cesar Dohy, at the yard has been very helpful with supply of Polars & GZ curves. On the 1070+ Polars at 40 degrees wind give 6.99 knots in 12 knots of wind. 7.4 in 20. Cracked off to 45 degrees the speeds increase to 7.25kts and 7.68, respectively. That’s the fin. So, not race boat close winded. But pretty respectable speeds (in my book) for a 35 footer… (To confirm your ‘fast off the wind’ thoughts: at 130 degrees the 12kt speed is 8.23, the 20kt speed 10.37).

Don't you just love polars.
Bear in mind this is a cruising boat anything you add weight wise will dramatically cut the speeds. Any chop other than flat water upwind will dramatically cut the speed. Off the wind in most conditions I am sure she will perform admirably.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

They look far to uncomfortable to me for a cruising boat, too much like camping or caravanning.

 

[Laser310]

Share your interest in the RM’s. For similar reasons and with the similar caveat, regarding durability / maintenance requirements of the WEST hull. In my case it’s the 1070+, which has caught my eye:

Cesar Dohy, at the yard has been very helpful with supply of Polars & GZ curves. On the 1070+ Polars at 40 degrees wind give 6.99 knots in 12 knots of wind. 7.4 in 20. Cracked off to 45 degrees the speeds increase to 7.25kts and 7.68, respectively. That’s the fin. So, not race boat close winded. But pretty acceptable speeds (in my book) for a 35 footer… (To confirm your ‘fast off the wind’ thoughts: at 130 degrees the 12kt speed is 8.23, the 20kt speed 10.37).

I have worked a lot with polars on the boats I race - designer/manufacturer polars can be pretty optimistic.

better.., are the polars you can get for free on the ORC website, if they have issued certificates for the boat you are interested in. Often, on asym boats, you need to open up the downwind target angles a bit - it's not uncommon to see a downwind target of 175-180deg at TWS 16kts, which is way too deep.

I have also been in touch with Cesar about a few things.

I don't know if it was him, but someone at RM told me to ask the designer Marc Lombard about stability curves. He (Lombard) basically said that I couldn't have them, and wouldn't understand them anyway... He noted that the boats meet CE standards and said that should be enough for me. I think he did give some sort of generic curve without saying exactly what boat it was for.

One of the reasons I was asking is that I did find some ORC certificates for the model I was interested in, and they showed LPS and STIX for one or two boats that were rather low..., but there was a lot of variation - one or two were acceptable.

It seems low stability is a feature of a lot of the french cruising boats - some of those aluminum centerboarders are very low.., yet they go everywhere. I think it's at least possible that our stability measures are not as good an indication of what makes a boat safe at sea as we think. Still, all things equal, i'd rather have a high LPS than a low one.

 

[Supertramp]

Don't you just love polars.
Bear in mind this is a cruising boat anything you add weight wise will dramatically cut the speeds. Any chop other than flat water upwind will dramatically cut the speed. Off the wind in most conditions I am sure she will perform admirably.

I recall in one of his previous videos returning from Bermuda with lots of supplies and no gennaker that he wasn't achieving daily runs much in excess of his old Bavaria. No point having good polars and having to keep adjusting sails to stay near the limit on a 3 week passage, unless you are racing (minded). Especially as you grow older.

He is however a source of useful information and opinions.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I recall in one of his previous videos returning from Bermuda with lots of supplies and no gennaker that he wasn't achieving daily runs much in excess of his old Bavaria. No point having good polars and having to keep adjusting sails to stay near the limit on a 3 week passage, unless you are racing (minded). Especially as you grow older.

He is however a source of useful information and opinions.

He's also doing all my boat evaluation for me. His latest two boats are two that were right up there in my "I wonder if I should buy a xxx" list. Last summers videos confirmed what I thought, that you can't really offshore cruise a small race oriented boat and expect it to perform as if it were being raced. I will be interested in his speeds this year. He needs to buy a JPK 110 and then an A31 next so I can cross those off the list too!

 

[geem]

He's also doing all my boat evaluation for me. His latest two boats are two that were right up there in my "I wonder if I should buy a xxx" list. Last summers videos confirmed what I thought, that you can't really offshore cruise a small race oriented boat and expect it to perform as if it were being raced. I will be interested in his speeds this year. He needs to buy a JPK 110 and then an A31 next so I can cross those off the list too!

We met a family who did an Atlantic circuit in a Pogo 1250. A total crew of 4. They traveled light. No toys onboard.
The wife told me that her husband was disappointed with the trip across the pond. He expected to do a faster time. She said they broad reached and gybed their way across. As a result they sailed a long way but not particularly quickly. Weight is the killer. Don't cruise a race boat and expect a race boat performance. It's hard to do an extended off shore trips where weight of gear has a major impact. Lightweight racy types like a Pogo are particularly bad at carrying weight.
Many years ago I used to crew on an all carbon 33ft race boat called Act Two Scenario. She was super light but an old design by modern standards.
That boat taught me a lot. The main takeaway was I never want a boat like that to go cruising. It needed a large crew to sail it safely in rough weather.
A friend of a friend purchased a Shipman 59 to sail around the world in. A full carbon, performance cruiser. After the Atlantic crossing he has realised its not the boat to sail the world in. The round the world trip is cancelled. Unless you have a full race crew these boats can be a handful in rough weather. When you are cruising with family you need a boat that is easily handled not one that has to be wrestled.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Looking at the last part of his video the boat doesn't seem to be going to windward particularly well it would be interesting to see more data on wind angles etc but he is having to do a lot of tacking.

 

[Laser310]

Looking at the last part of his video the boat doesn't seem to be going to windward particularly well it would be interesting to see more data on wind angles etc but he is having to do a lot of tacking.

maybe he's bad at calling the shifts...

does he say which keel he has on the boat?

 

[Laser310]

actually, if you look at his first tack, it's through about 80deg.., and then he gets lifted for a while.

but then on the second tack, he appears to tack out of a header - which is good - but then ends up on a terrible angle.., so either the wind went right, after he tacked, or he's just not sailing the boat well.

edit - i just realized..., he's headed more or less were he needs to go.., so the problem was that he overstood - went too far before tacking, and the header came kind of late, and that's why his angle looks so bad

anyway, TWA 40deg is not bad for this kind of boat on the ocean single handed at night,

it would be nice to know which keel he has.

 

[XDC]

The ‘increments of fear’ episode

 

[38mess]

I follow Patrick, I must say I am not a fan of this boat at all. It doesn't look suitable for an older person in my opinion, it doesn't look to sail close to the wind if the video is anything to go by. 'a sweet spot of 35-40 heel' is enough to put me off.

 

[Kola]

Agree, as he says in the video "welcome to my latest mistake"...
At the same time, i recon he will put some serious miles up in it.
One of the few uTuber's not hustling for money!

 

[XDC]

I follow Patrick, I must say I am not a fan of this boat at all. It doesn't look suitable for an older person in my opinion, it doesn't look to sail close to the wind if the video is anything to go by. 'a sweet spot of 35-40 heel' is enough to put me off.

Pretty sure the sweet spot referred to size of boat not degrees of heel

 

[bignick]

Sweet spot referred to a boat of 38’ to 42’.

 

[38mess]

Pretty sure the sweet spot referred to size of boat not degrees of heel

Thanks, I stand corrected