What to do when starting out?

[conks01]

Hi,

I’m a complete novice to the sailing world.

I live near Burnham on Sea in Somerset and there is a small sailing club.

There are also moorings in the estuary available I believe.

I’d like to buy a small sailing boat with a triple keel so it can be moored in the estuary but I really don’t know anything about sailing and what the best boat to buy is.

I have been looking at Westerly 22, Leisure, Seawych 19 and Hurley boats?

Obviously I guess I would need to put myself on a RYA course prior to doing anything else but generally I was wondering whether you could simply buy a sailing boat, take it out & back without any form of license being required?

Could, for example, I also be able to sail across the Bristol Channel to Cardiff bay and moor up there?

Any general guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Tranona]

You are looking at the right sort of boats for starters. However you will find the Bristol Channel pretty challenging because of the strong tides and limited places to go to.

Join the local club and meet people who already "do it". Do the Day Skipper programme and get crewing with others if you can. Once you have some experience you will be in a much better position to make an informed choice of boat. You will find there are no official requirements, but doing the courses (including radio) will make the whole thing more enjoyable. You can get a lot of guidance from the RYA site and of course there are many books and magazines on the subject to help you along.

 

[wiggy]

You are looking at the right sort of boats for starters. However you will find the Bristol Channel pretty challenging because of the strong tides and limited places to go to.

Join the local club and meet people who already "do it". Do the Day Skipper programme and get crewing with others if you can. Once you have some experience you will be in a much better position to make an informed choice of boat. You will find there are no official requirements, but doing the courses (including radio) will make the whole thing more enjoyable. You can get a lot of guidance from the RYA site and of course there are many books and magazines on the subject to help you along.

Well said, join the club, get on the water for minimal outlay (on other peoples boats) and have some fun.
Prepare yourself to get et hooked and live a life of dreaming of places to visit and debt!

 

[CreakyDecks]

I would reiterate what has just been said. Your first step should definitely be to join a club that has a section that sails the kind of boats you are interested in. What non-boat owners don't realize is just how keen small cruiser owners always are to take people out. You think asking for a trip is an imposition but if my club is anything to go by there is inevitably someone who wants a helping hand, because the alternative (if they don't like single handing) is to leave their own boat moored up and crew for someone else.

 

[ProDave]

I'm probably going to be at odds with other repplies, but we did just that, bought a boat and went to sea.

Previous experience was sailing as crew on one 3 day trip with a relative, and hiring a Dracombe lugger for a couple of hours.

So we went and bought a boat, brought it home on the trailer, then wondered where and how to sail her.

After looking at all the harbours and moorings in the area joined a sailng club and have a harbour berth with them.

We have had one season on the water and are still very much novices, only day sailing returning to our own harbour. We have had some informal own boat tuition from a club member, and this year Mrs PD is doing a dinghy sailing course as she thinks that will teach her more about sailing.

While you can just take a boat out on the water with no licence or anything, that's down to how confident you feel. We both did the RYA essential navigation & seamanship course which teaches you the very basic theory.

I also did the VHF SRC so I have a VHF radio licence. The radio licence is probably the only thing you are supposed to do, with the exception that anyone can use a VHF radio in an emergency. You would be mad (IMHO) to go to sea without a VHF radio, so you really should get an operators licence for it. (the ships licence is free)

 

[WilliamUK]

...I was wondering whether you could simply buy a sailing boat, take it out & back without any form of license being required?

Absolutely - yes!
Welcome to the wonderful world of not having to ask permission from some stuffed suit in government. You can almost taste the freedom!

Right - now I've got that out of my system... while I'm a firm believer in keeping government and regulation well away from sailing, I also think you've got to be absolutely mad to go to sea without some sort of instruction.

I think dinghy sailing is a cracking place to start, you'll learn the basic principles of everything from sail trim, wind, balance and so on - all in miniature and with some differences in handling (like comparing a go-cart with a camper van in many ways) but the understanding you get in a dinghy comes quickly, I think.

That said, there's nothing at all wrong with jumping right into a big boat... some of the basic RYA courses would be a good place to start, as would your local sailing club - advice, opportunities to go for a sail and possibly even discounted RYA courses depending on the club.

The best of luck to you!

 

[oldbilbo]

I live near Burnham on Sea in Somerset and there is a small sailing club.....generally I was wondering whether you could simply buy a sailing boat, take it out & back without any form of license being required? Could, for example, I also be able to sail across the Bristol Channel to Cardiff bay and moor up there?

That's an excellent and friendly club, on the Huntspill, with lots of helpful, experienced folk who certainly would be most pleased to help and guide you. All of them have been down the same road as you..... Have a look also at the club at Uphill, on the sands, on the north side of Brean Down. Same kind of folk.....

You are looking at the right sort of boats for starters. However you will find the Bristol Channel pretty challenging because of the strong tides and limited places to go to.

Well said, join the club, get on the water for minimal outlay (on other peoples boats) and have some fun.

Your first step should definitely be to join a club that has a section that sails the kind of boats you are interested in.

Sound advice from those who have been there, done that....

I'm probably going to be at odds with other repplies, but we did just that, bought a boat and went to sea….that's down to how confident you feel.

It's also related to how lucky you are.

Many are put off for life by a harrowing first experience that needn't have been like that. Getting out of the small rivers used by those clubs ( and all the others around the Brizl Channel ) is the easy bit; getting back in safely is a lot harder. Get to know your local RNLI on display days, not on a big mudbank in the Brizl Channel.

Getting in to Cardiff Bay, along the winding channel and through the Barrage lock gates, is challenging if you have no idea what to expect. Far better accept an invite to come along with a club member or two - it's a regular sail - and visit 'foreign lands' at the CBYC or CYC.

You wouldn't go buy an car or a light aircraft, then push off first time solo without a 'responsible adult' on board, would you?

So, join one of the clubs, make some new friends, sail with some of them, then get your own boat.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

You don't need any licence to go out sailing BUT consider SAFETY first. You must go out sailing a few times; join the club, people will be happy to take you out and show you; you will then learn quickly and you will be able to enjoy sailing SAFELY.

The Bristol channel has a huge tide range and at spring tides, the tide runs at 5~6 knots; this means that if you are caught out there, you will end up going backwards if you are not careful; also plenty of sand banks and so many things that you need to be aware of.

However, if you are ready and aware of all these, you will be able to sail and enjoy yourself and be in control. Take a VHF radio course, one / two days course and then you will able to communicate on VHF with confidence. Learn a bit of navigation and all points of sail under various wind conditions; all these can be learnt very quickly and with fun.

 

[Farrelley]

Welcome Conks,

I have recently done what these kind fellows have been suggesting to you. I joined the local club, got talking boaty with them and recently completed the dinghy course to actually learn 'how' to sail.
You won't regret it and will have a laugh whilst getting some expert tuition. Once you go out on a few different boats with them you will gauge exactly what sort of boat you are after.. in stead of learning this once you've done the deed and lumbered yourself with something that isn't quite suited to you and your family.
You may well be able to just go out without a clue what you're doing or any formal training but I doubt you would enjoy the experience when you have to be hauled off the rocks or scooped from the water by the RNLI. Even if you are lucky and make it back in one piece I bet the nerves would of taken a pounding lol.
There are also many other things that you will need to learn that maybe the basic courses can't teach you, Knots, local currents and obstructions, cheapest place to buy bits etc. This is where being a member of the local club will come in handy.
If you need anyone to chat to pm me and I will share my very limited knowledge

 

[William_H]

Getting into sailing

The size of boat you have in mind is to my mind ideal both to learn on and to own long term. (I have had my 21fter for 32 years so quite satisfied)
I would not however suggest a dinghy course for learning. Far better a course on a boat like yours. Dinghies demand so much attention to keeping the thing upright and not capsized and are so discouraging when you do capsize while a bigger boat enables you to concentrate what you need to learn.
I confess when I first got into sailing I did it from reading books and try myself. A painful process punctuated by disasters but the way the pig headed do it. Now days I teach people in keelboats good luck olewill

 

[WilliamUK]

I would not however suggest a dinghy course for learning. Far better a course on a boat like yours. Dinghies demand so much attention to keeping the thing upright and not capsized and are so discouraging when you do capsize while a bigger boat enables you to concentrate what you need to learn.

Just wanted to address this. With the right dinghy for learning in (a stable one) it doesn't take much attention at all to balance it just so, and on a decent course your first efforts will be accompanied by an instructor who will take care of it while you get to grips with the mechanics of making the boat move and turn.

Also, capsizing a dinghy is only discouraging if you see capsizing as a failure. It isn't - especially not when learning. Getting them back up again is a piece of cake, especially if you learn to do it properly; which - again - a decent course will teach. You can see capsizing as a failure or as part of learning what effect poor sail trim and course steering have without the consequences they can have on a big boat... and most beginners I've seen on an Level 1 or 2 course don't capsize until their capsize drill. (I used to sail at a training centre, so I've seen quite a lot.)

Everything... tacking, gybing, sail handling and so on is far, far easier on a dinghy than on a bigger boat and most of the skills learned in the first couple of days on a dinghy will transfer almost seamlessly to a bigger boat.

Of course, there will always be disagreement about the best way to learn the basics.

As I see it, you need to be on a big boat to learn some of the elements of big boat sailing, but I think the basic mechanics of sails, steering and so on are easier to learn in a dinghy than on a yacht.

With less weight to move (both in sails and in boat weight) actions on a dinghy are smaller, easier and have more immediate effects.

Once the basic concepts have been learned, I think the process of learning to handle a yacht is made easier with the "how it works" bit already learned.

Besides - all the best sailors start in dinghies.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Just wanted to address this. With the right dinghy for learning in (a stable one) it doesn't take much attention at all to balance it just so, and on a decent course your first efforts will be accompanied by an instructor who will take care of it while you get to grips with the mechanics of making the boat move and turn.

Also, capsizing a dinghy is only discouraging if you see capsizing as a failure. It isn't - especially not when learning. Getting them back up again is a piece of cake, especially if you learn to do it properly; which - again - a decent course will teach. You can see capsizing as a failure or as part of learning what effect poor sail trim and course steering have without the consequences they can have on a big boat... and most beginners I've seen on an Level 1 or 2 course don't capsize until their capsize drill. (I used to sail at a training centre, so I've seen quite a lot.)

Everything... tacking, gybing, sail handling and so on is far, far easier on a dinghy than on a bigger boat and most of the skills learned in the first couple of days on a dinghy will transfer almost seamlessly to a bigger boat.

Of course, there will always be disagreement about the best way to learn the basics.

As I see it, you need to be on a big boat to learn some of the elements of big boat sailing, but I think the basic mechanics of sails, steering and so on are easier to learn in a dinghy than on a yacht.

With less weight to move (both in sails and in boat weight) actions on a dinghy are smaller, easier and have more immediate effects.

Once the basic concepts have been learned, I think the process of learning to handle a yacht is made easier with the "how it works" bit already learned.

Besides - all the best sailors start in dinghies.

Capsizing dinghies is great fun and the best way to understand and appreciate, when young, wind direction, wind force, sail trimming, balance, water exposure fatigue and so many other things. Those who learnt sailing straight on yachts, by-passing dinghy sailing, don't know what they have missed out on; provided you were in your teens, of course.

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

Consider golf while you've still got some money left ... or needlework ... or anything!

 

[little_roundtop]

We were total novices when we started. We began with a "taster weekend" with an RYA school in Poole. The Saturday was glorious, blue skies, flat sea and just enough wind to get the boat moving. I did begin to wonder whether we needed to do all that RYA training first.

The Sunday brought a SW gale 8, gusting 9. The skipper, sensible fellow that he was, refused to take us out of Poole Bay in those conditions but we did take the boat out in the bay so that we could experience a full gale and get some idea of the sea that comes with one. That did it, we understood at once that the little we knew could easily kill us in conditions like those.

If nothing else, the RYA way gives you confidence in what you do know and (gently) introduces you to how much you really do need to know to be safe.

One valuable lesson has stayed with me forever; we were motoring into the Needles channel from the south (and had just passed the Needles) with me helming when a moderate sized freighter coming up fast from the SW and closing on us sounded one short blast. I was wondering what that meant (we were pretty new then) when the skipper told me to head for the nearest red can and stay there. After the freighter had passed us he explained that one short blast is "I'm turning to starboard" and yet he was obviously turning to port (and did to enter the channel). "When you don't know where a big ship is going" our skipper explained "put yourself where he's never going to be". Remembering that lesson has saved us on at least one other occasion since.

Experience is a great teacher, but she often puts in big bills!

 

[WilliamUK]

Great post there, Roundtop.

Capsizing dinghies is great fun and the best way to understand and appreciate, when young, wind direction, wind force, sail trimming, balance, water exposure fatigue and so many other things. Those who learnt sailing straight on yachts, by-passing dinghy sailing, don't know what they have missed out on; provided you were in your teens, of course.

I'm in my 30s (learned about 20 years ago), my girlfriend is currently learning to sail for the first time in her mid 20s. Others on the course are older still (40 and up - we're the babies on the course by a long shot). All of them enjoyed the capsize day and two boats went over prior to that too.*

I'm reminded here of the wise quote from George Bernard Shaw:
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."



* I may or may not have been helming one of them, a valuable lesson in being sure everyone really is ready to go about and that the windward jib sheet isn't still cleated when you tack. I'm denying all responsibility though.

 

[ukmctc]

I too had the same problem when I got into sailing, I just bought a boat I liked the look of and started to play with her till I got the hang of it.
I started in Tollesbury, and sailed all around your area too.
You don't need to do any courses, you don't need to join any clubs, people in your area will help you, go sailing with you and give any info you want, you will even be invited out on other boats. Now for those who are getting shirty, yes you can join a club if you want, there are plenty out there.
Any boat will do, buy the one you like and can afford, I had a trapper 500 and around your area it was brilliant, friends of mine had a Westerly 21, nice too, horses for courses they say.
The main thing is, chill, enjoy and have fun, it doesn't need to be expensive and you don't need any gadgets, just local knowledge, local people, and a local pub or club house bar.
Enjoy and keep it fun...

 

[WilliamUK]

I too had the same problem when I got into sailing, I just bought a boat I liked the look of and started to play with her till I got the hang of it.
I started in Tollesbury, and sailed all around your area too.
You don't need to do any courses, you don't need to join any clubs, people in your area will help you, go sailing with you and give any info you want, you will even be invited out on other boats. Now for those who are getting shirty, yes you can join a club if you want, there are plenty out there.
Any boat will do, buy the one you like and can afford, I had a trapper 500 and around your area it was brilliant, friends of mine had a Westerly 21, nice too, horses for courses they say.
The main thing is, chill, enjoy and have fun, it doesn't need to be expensive and you don't need any gadgets, just local knowledge, local people, and a local pub or club house bar.
Enjoy and keep it fun...

I like this post. I do think lessons are valuable if you've got a good teacher but the point of this reply isn't to argue that particular toss.

The bit I've bolded is important.
I was looking for a dinghy to go cruising in and when I realised I needed about 10 times my budget to get one in half decent condition I looked at other things. After making the decision that it's better to have any boat at all than not have the perfect boat I got something more suited to racing than cruising, and intend to cruise it anyway.

You learn far more by having a boat and sailing than by looking for one and not.