wakeup
Active member
+1 for gas BBQ, it is what we do on the bathing platform of our boat.
what to do regards a generator
- Thread starter lanerboy
- Start date
lanerboy
New member
oh dear I can see this is going to get expensive as I am now looing at generators on the tinternet, so come on then what size do I need, I need to make sure if I go down this route its big enough to power air con if we do go to the med in a couple of years time. again air con is going to need to be retro fitted at a later date
regards a genny on my control panel there is a switch for a genny so does anyone know if my fairline will be wired up for a genny or will it just be a switch on the panel with nothing on the back of it
regards a genny on my control panel there is a switch for a genny so does anyone know if my fairline will be wired up for a genny or will it just be a switch on the panel with nothing on the back of it
rafiki_
Well-known member
Shawn, can't comment on the wiring, but you will need something like a 10kVA gennie to run the a/c plus fridges plus plus....
superheat6k
Well-known member
Your shorepower / genny select switch must be 'break before make', and normally it will be three position - SP - Off - Genny. I would expect it will be a 2 pole 3 position switch, so will have vacant terminals for the Off and Genny positions for each pole.
Whatever you decide make absolutely sure you cannot possibly have shorepower and genny power selected together, or you will destroy the genny, and possibly some of the wiring. Paralleling generators to shorepower is simply a non starter for small vessels with generators below say 50-100 kVA. I would be surprised if even JFM's Match II parallels to the shore supply system.
jimmy_the_builder
Well-known member
That sounds a bit strong to me. The theoretically correct approach to this is to work out what your aircon requirements are going to be, look at the startup electrical load, and from there you can size the generator. Alternatively, the easy way is to see what a med spec version of your boat has got installed ... and it'll probably be a Onan 7kw generator.
jimmy_the_builder
Well-known member
When I installed my generator I didn't bother with the OE switch on the panel, instead I fitted an auto changeover contactor, which as well as making it more convenient when starting the gennie also made the installation wiring a bit simpler.
rafiki_
Well-known member
My Snazi, similar size to Shawn's Phantom has a Kohler 11 kVA, fitted as std. No a/c though, as she is a rare UK spec. The Phantom has a substantial greenhouse to cool, which your Targa doesn't need.
jimmy_the_builder
Well-known member
Quite - which is why I've only got a 4kw in mine, because that's all the aircon for my boat needs.
But ... hang on a minute, if you're dragging round 200kg of generator you don't need, and Shawn's got a grill that won't work at anchor ... is there a deal to be done??
rafiki_
Well-known member
Jimmy, I need the gennie for the fridgeQuite - which is why I've only got a 4kw in mine, because that's all the aircon for my boat needs.
But ... hang on a minute, if you're dragging round 200kg of generator you don't need, and Shawn's got a grill that won't work at anchor ... is there a deal to be done??
jimmy_the_builder
Well-known member
Jimmy, I need the gennie for the fridge
An 11kw fridge? That is a _lot_ of stoli, Raf...
kashurst
Well-known member
I would estimate @ 7-8 Kw as well for a 40" flybridge - one big compressor/chiller in the saloon and similar under the bed in the forward cabin with ducting to the second bedroom. You don't need to do the bathrooms, just run the shower cold.
rafiki_
Well-known member
An 11kw fridge? That is a _lot_ of stoli, Raf...
Not quite 11kw Jimmy, but I like to have a bit of spare capacity
jfm
Well-known member
I'd agree with Superheat that you must use the right switchgear so that shorepower and genie are never connected/paralleled. Reason is that the phases will never be in sync and that means BIG trouble. solution is to use a negative overlap switch exactly as Superheat says. This isn't any problem as these are off the shelf catalogue items and any good installer will get this right
Superheat, to answer your Q about Match, no I don't synch the genset phase to the shorepower. I use a negative overlap switch exactly as you say. I don't even synch the 2 gensets on the boat with each other. The switch logic used is described post #1635 here http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...uild-pics-(Squadron-78)&p=4369784#post4369784
Shawn, I would think 6kva would be fine for a permanent install. That's around 20 ish amps. Years ago on my phantom 42 in the Med we had 5Kw and we had two small airco compressors not one, and switched them on sequentially not simultaneously to avoid start up spikes. These days you can have a soft start VFD (=variable frequency drive) added to the airco compressor motor for ~£100 to take out the start up spike so you don't even need to do the two compressor trick any more. I have VFD soft starts on all my big motors (airco, w'maker, stab hydraulics, etc) on my current boat because they're good things and cheap as chips these days
If you're not in a hurry here's a left field idea. Essex Boatyards sometimes buy stock boats with no airco and smaller gensets like the Onan 9kva. Customers then buy the boat and want airco and a bigger genset. The 9Kw ones become spare and for sale. My bother bought an Onan 9kva from them last month on this basis for a great price, less than half RRP, and it is mint and has 1 hour run time. If you email nick@ Essex and just register your interest in a small genset he can email you next time he has one like this. Don't expect an instant deal because they only get maybe 3 a year like this and others want them too, and I don't want Nick's email box full of requests for gensets because of this post! I'm sure you get my drift on that
All that said, a genset like 9kva is only sensible if you're going med spec with airco. If it's just a grill then the barbeque ideas above, or a tiny genset, make more sense. Though, reading scubaman's post above if you got a great genset installed for say £5k you would surely get that back in resale value uplift
Final comment is that I do not know the space limitations for fitting genset in phantom43, especially the height clearance in the Lazerette. As Saint Volvo Paul now has the same boat (I think?) he will obviously know instantly what is the limit for genset fitting, so it's worthwhile asking for his opinions on that
Superheat, to answer your Q about Match, no I don't synch the genset phase to the shorepower. I use a negative overlap switch exactly as you say. I don't even synch the 2 gensets on the boat with each other. The switch logic used is described post #1635 here http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...uild-pics-(Squadron-78)&p=4369784#post4369784
Shawn, I would think 6kva would be fine for a permanent install. That's around 20 ish amps. Years ago on my phantom 42 in the Med we had 5Kw and we had two small airco compressors not one, and switched them on sequentially not simultaneously to avoid start up spikes. These days you can have a soft start VFD (=variable frequency drive) added to the airco compressor motor for ~£100 to take out the start up spike so you don't even need to do the two compressor trick any more. I have VFD soft starts on all my big motors (airco, w'maker, stab hydraulics, etc) on my current boat because they're good things and cheap as chips these days
If you're not in a hurry here's a left field idea. Essex Boatyards sometimes buy stock boats with no airco and smaller gensets like the Onan 9kva. Customers then buy the boat and want airco and a bigger genset. The 9Kw ones become spare and for sale. My bother bought an Onan 9kva from them last month on this basis for a great price, less than half RRP, and it is mint and has 1 hour run time. If you email nick@ Essex and just register your interest in a small genset he can email you next time he has one like this. Don't expect an instant deal because they only get maybe 3 a year like this and others want them too, and I don't want Nick's email box full of requests for gensets because of this post! I'm sure you get my drift on that
All that said, a genset like 9kva is only sensible if you're going med spec with airco. If it's just a grill then the barbeque ideas above, or a tiny genset, make more sense. Though, reading scubaman's post above if you got a great genset installed for say £5k you would surely get that back in resale value uplift
Final comment is that I do not know the space limitations for fitting genset in phantom43, especially the height clearance in the Lazerette. As Saint Volvo Paul now has the same boat (I think?) he will obviously know instantly what is the limit for genset fitting, so it's worthwhile asking for his opinions on that
lanerboy
New member
thanks for the replies everyone, JFM I will send nick an email and see what he has also I only have a phantom 40 so will be even less room than you possibly thought, first job next weekend is clear all my **** out of the lazerrete that I some how have managed to accumulate over a very small time period so I can see what room I actually have
does anyone know if the phantom 40's that do have generators in the lazerette have 2 water tanks still as I am struggling to visualise where I will be able to fit one and wondered if they maybe remove one tank to make room for a genny
cheers
does anyone know if the phantom 40's that do have generators in the lazerette have 2 water tanks still as I am struggling to visualise where I will be able to fit one and wondered if they maybe remove one tank to make room for a genny
cheers
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LionsDen
New member
Hi Shaun - Speak to EBY they will advise you re generator size you can install etc etc - But speak with an Essex Accent and you won't go far wrong
rafiki_
Well-known member
Hi Shaun - Speak to EBY they will advise you re generator size you can install etc etc - But speak with an Essex Accent and you won't go far wrong
Will he need cosmetic surgery, and some falsies too?
John100156
Well-known member
I agree 6kVA should suffice and a soft start on heavy loads would be beneficial. That said: on my F43 I have two factory fitted AC heat pump units feeding Saloon/Aft Cabin and Dinette/Bow Cabin which I power from my 6kVA HFL Generator when on the hook (Correctly switched as Superheat6k recommends). It seems to cope very well given the diversity of inductive loads (high for very short duration at first start-up) and I can also run a kettle!
The in-built time delay between fans and both AC unit compressors starting seems to be just right on initial start-up, slightly staggered, which is most beneficial, you rarely get two compressors switching in/out at the same time in operation just as you're boiling a kettle, I have not observed any low voltage/tripping issues to date!
All depends on size/type and load characteristics of AC and other systems on the boat which I am sure can be checked prior to installation! Once fitted all you then need to do is move the boat to the Med and get one of these:
lanerboy
New member
cheers john
yes we are thinking about the med but not for 2 years due to children we are looking at same marina as you and hurricane, we might even have a long weekend trip out there later this year to have a poke around but I know that will be lethal as it will speed up the move lol
yes we are thinking about the med but not for 2 years due to children we are looking at same marina as you and hurricane, we might even have a long weekend trip out there later this year to have a poke around but I know that will be lethal as it will speed up the move lol
rafiki_
Well-known member
Shawn, back to your OP, why don't you go for a suitcase 2kva for now. This will run most things on your boat, and is very saleable on Fleabay, while you consider the bigger options?
