What to buy Itama 38/45 and similar

[Bouba]

Agreed.
PF will never agree of course, but imho what most Itama owners are after is claiming Itama ownership, first and foremost.
The bit "because she's a great seaboat" is just the plausible excuse, not the real reason!

You’re just a troublemaker ??

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Hi W, didn't you hear from that chap who has a 45 (Not sure of age, I think late 80s) that he would be interested to sell - also unofficially?
I can put in touch with him also anyone else who might be interested.

He never got back to me. I know you gave him my contact.

 

[petem]

Thank you PowerYachtBlog for the information. I’ll look at the other boat you recommend. The 42 on the market are well priced I’ll look into that for sure

Petem, I not really a fan of the sunseeker design and the Axopar is a different class. The Itama and some other boats proposed by PowerYachtBlog are timeless, cool and sexy.

You sound like you (or your family) know what you want so I shall bow out!

 

[Nikolaj]

Hi and Portofino did a nice answer.
The 46 presented in 1995 and was an evolution of the 45 (extended forward) which was launched in late 85.
The 46 had the helm station moved to port side from starboard and offered an exterior galley behind the helm station, also the third aft cabin was larger had two bunk berths.
Model was also renamed as 50 in 2003/4 Bulgari ownership of the company. The model was the same accept for the last four build units made with a rounded windshield.

Under Bulgari the 38 was renamed as 40, new round windshield, and new cockpit design with sun-pad and C-shaped dinette.

A model in between the 38 and 46 which came out in 2000 was also the 42 renamed as 48 in the Bulgari era. 42/48 are a bit hard to come by since they are the last project of Amati.
The 42/48 is a really the best of both World offering cruiser accommodation, for a cruise while still not feeling huge as the 46/50.

The FG era Marco Casali dseigned models are a bit different since they use Vee-drives. The Forty which became 45 was the model replacing the 38. It was not its evolution though as she is wider and bigger, 45 feet over-all but much smaller then the old 45 which is in fact 15 meters overall.

As alternatives to Itama, you can look at XL Marine, Tornado, Mig, Italcraft, and the Rizzardi CR Top Line models with emphasis on the 50 model.

And how do the maintenance and running cost compare between the different Itamas and XL marine boats. Is the cost variable and fixed cost much higher on a 45 than a 38 ?

 

[Nikolaj]

I suspect the man (or woman) who starts by asking about itama's definitely does not want to go mainstream. If you want an itama you're looking for a certain image IMO, they're deliberately not wanting mainstream, they're looking for niche/boutique..

Not sure an axopar could be considered as an alternative to an itama either , completely different style of boats for different purposes, and an axopar is pretty mainstream too these days.

Maybe ? but they are sexy as hell

 

[julians]

Maybe ? but they are sexy as hell

agree - love the look of an itama

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

And how do the maintenance and running cost compare between the different Itamas and XL marine boats. Is the cost variable and fixed cost much higher on a 45 than a 38 ?

It is about 100% more on the 45 as she is in reality a 50 footer. Fuel costs with the 38 is about 5 litre per nautical mile at more or less 25 knots.
The old 45 with GM 735hp is like 8 litre per nautical mile.
A 46 with Man 800s is about 7.5 per nautical mile. A 42/48 is about 6 litre per nautical mile.

An XL 43 with Yanmar 480s is just about less to 5 litre per nautical mile with Yanmar, and about 5 with the Mans.
An Itama Forty or 45 FG generation is about 5 litre per nautical mile,

 

[Portofino]

Another factor I have since found out recently is the mid 90 s 2 valve v8 , MANs have weak inlet valves up to 2001 .The replacement quad valves are good .
So this impacts on the Itama 46 .Although there are some MTU 762 hps about . They go around 1500 to 2000 hr .
If it’s has a pair of the v8 s check the updates have been done .
There are some still not done waiting to grenade .

The I 6 2876 on the 42/48 is quad valves and according to MAN engineers bomb prof.
Another plus over the others .

The 42/48 has a bigger galley , larger saloon table and a twin rear cabin as opposed to bunks than the 46 .
They are both about the same L within a few cm it’s just the beam is another 25 cm or foot on the 46 , which as PYB says is really a 50. The V8 s needing an extra ft of beam .
The 46 saloon crampness is because they squeezed an extra cabin in the fwds section .
I use section terminology because basically the boats are divided into 3 sections the engine room is in the middle and splits the accommodation.At the helm you stand over an engine header tank and the belts , they are under your feet .

The 42/48 came after the 46 maybe a cross over year 2001 .Amarti narrowed the beam with the advent of the i 6 man s .
Listening to customers ( who mostly day boated , island hopped ) cut a cabin , now 2 sleeping from 3 How ever the bigger saloon has an in fill and converts via a electric tabke hoist to a double bed .There is curtain for privacy .
We have used this occasionally.The narrow beam down to 4.2 increased the deadrise by another degree to 23 .

Also the 46 has remote rudders under the bathing platform so 3 rams , two height adjustable and the actual steering are permanently submerged in the sea = maintenance issues , seals get damaged with growth .That put me off the 46 .
This was a shaft angle reduction design by mounting the P brackets as far back as possible means no space on the hull for the rudders .You can lift the rudders to reduce drag , but also reduce steerage .

My boat the succeeding 42/48 he dispensed with the remote rudder bar .
How ever from 25 knots up the rudders are very ineffective as the lift , lifts them up .To turn sharp at 30 knots I can’t.
So if a yacht tacks by surprise in front to avoid a collision I have to pull back on the throttles to sink the hull to regain some semblance of rudder effect , drop to 24 knots or something.
The flip side is rock steady cruising once pointed in the direction it does not want to change dir , so relaxing to helm you are not fidgeting with the wheel .
Tbo sometimes I just sit back steer with my toes , foot on the foot rest at 30 knots .
The deep V minimal free board / lack of top heavy superstructure, ie radar arch + heavy weight means they do not suffer from windage in marina manoeuvres.So easy to park .

Other foibles .Take no radar arch .Yup I had one crammed with gadgets once , but for aesthetic reasons they taper in wards from the sidewalks .It’s probably not something folks have ever thought about?
But the Bimini and rear cover do not extend width wise the full width of the cockpit as the fixing edge width is set by the width of the arch .Again I bet you all thinking so what ?
Rain .With the Itama because the canvas is full width to the glass you hardly ever need to put the side screens to stop the seating .getting wet . Just easy to live with for an open in the Med .

Also servicing the I6 are basically 1/2 price as they have 1/2 the amount of air filters and oil and fuel filters .So your annual consumables bill is 1/2 .Air filters are €100 a pop .Two s bill better than a four bill .

Daft little things like a dedicated second set of props locker under a bunk .
They say from €2-3 K each new .But try finding one or a pairs in August on some gawd forsaken ( but pretty ) Med marina / island ?

Theses are in the centreline under the thwartship fwd rear bunk in the aft cabin . Bolted down .
Got some spare nuts as well .
The underwater exhaust a Amarti invention they reduce noise copied to some extent by others .

At the bow a huge anchor locker .You could place two bunks in there such is the vol .

That’s me lying full stretch not far off 6 ft .
Try doing that in a to quote PeteM “ mainstream “

“ Hello is that the marina office ? Can you deliver 48 2L bottles of water to our berth we are off on a cruise - tnx “:
Again easy boats to live with and spend time on .It’s as if some one new what owners wanted and listened .

 

[Portofino]

Maybe ? but they are sexy as hell

Maybe ?
Its better folks come up and start positive conversation s and also try and buy it .
Wow it never occurred to me …..honestly.
You mean this kinda thing ?



First version of the 38 back in 79/80; ish .What were “ mainstream “ messing with motor wise .AD q 40/41 s with 140 hp .
Fairline fury ? Anyone ?

 

[Nikolaj]

Maybe ?
Its better folks come up and start positive conversation s and also try and buy it .
Wow it never occurred to me …..honestly.
You mean this kinda thing ?
View attachment 125824
View attachment 125825
View attachment 125826View attachment 125827View attachment 125828
First version of the 38 back in 79/80; ish .What were “ mainstream “ messing with motor wise .AD q 40/41 s with 140 hp .
Fairline fury ? Anyone ?

Those pictures explain quite well one of the reasons which steered me towards Itama ?

 

[Nikolaj]

It is about 100% more on the 45 as she is in reality a 50 footer. Fuel costs with the 38 is about 5 litre per nautical mile at more or less 25 knots.
The old 45 with GM 735hp is like 8 litre per nautical mile.
A 46 with Man 800s is about 7.5 per nautical mile. A 42/48 is about 6 litre per nautical mile.

An XL 43 with Yanmar 480s is just about less to 5 litre per nautical mile with Yanmar, and about 5 with the Mans.
An Itama Forty or 45 FG generation is about 5 litre per nautical mile,

Thank you !

 

[Ian h]

A little over budget and was only a quick search

2011 Hunton XRS43 Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld

 

[Bouba]

Maybe ?
Its better folks come up and start positive conversation s and also try and buy it .
Wow it never occurred to me …..honestly.
You mean this kinda thing ?
View attachment 125824
View attachment 125825
View attachment 125826View attachment 125827View attachment 125828
First version of the 38 back in 79/80; ish .What were “ mainstream “ messing with motor wise .AD q 40/41 s with 140 hp .
Fairline fury ? Anyone ?

I understand how you got them all on your boat but how did they all fit into your Ferrari ?

 

[GravyStain]

They look like they need a decent meal to me

 

[Chris H]

I understand how you got them all on your boat but how did they all fit into your Ferrari ?

 

[2002 itama 38]

Hello to all! 3 questions if I may:
You say the 46 is a tank. Which of the 2 however is better at slicing through heavy chop? The wider 46 or the more narrow 42?
Does the 42/48 have a separate shower area? I m trying to understand what that space is adjacent to the Master bedroom on the Floorplan.
(Third question might be a hard one..sorry..) Do you know the width of the bed in the Master cabin of the 42 and the 46?
Many thanks in advance!!

 

[Portofino]

1-Would have thought the heavier 46 , but the 20 cm narrower 42/48 has a fraction extra 1 degree deadrise .Tough call .

2- Yes the 42/48 had a seperate ensuite shower area .3 doors in the master bow cabin .Middle is the entrance, port the shared heads ( toilet ) , starboard the shower room .

3- Bed is a standard double size matteras you find on land based property.Any shop bedding fits it’s a like a hotel / house bed .
No unique shape .My wife likes this aspect . Accessed from either side ,no climbing over each other .
Also the rear cabin are std single size bedding wise again any land based bedding shop for the covers sheets etc .

Edit - just asked the wife she says the std double sheets etc only just fit so it’s a big wider than that .Sorry never measured it that stuff is the woman’s domain .For none woke Stone age blokes like me .


Further info .

Amarti built them semi custom.Mine has extra storage where the shower compartment was and a bigger bathroom with the shower in it to compensate .About 30 cm shorter galley ,
Its also got a wider saloon seating with converts into a double bed via a electro ram that lowers the table .

The 46 has a even smaller galley run because they squeezed and extra heads ( toilet ) cabin in .on the port side .The 46s saloon seating is smaller too because they squeezed the extra cabin in on the stb side .

The 46 s rear cabin is bunks but with a rear access door on the fwd bulkhead so you can walk into the engine room .
The 42/48 has a twin set up at the rear and effectively a bigger cabin .

The 46 s V8 s will consume more fuel and as said earlier you need 4 x €100 air filters not two .
A handful of 46 s came with Arnesons good for mid forties knots cruise high thirties .
The 46 s have the external submerged rudder bar , so three rams to maintain underwater .
The 42/48 s single steering ram is inside under the rear bunk = maintenance free

Look at your marina tariffs too .My 4.2 beam squeezes under and save me €3_4 K in extra tariffs compared to 4,4 M which would be the next tariff / size up berthing fee wise .

The cock pit feels bigger inthe 42/48 due to deletion of the griddle / sink , chopping board , cabinetry etc behind the helm seat .
In fact it is more roomy because of this .Table + seating the same .

Tough call really .
The decider for me was .
V8 MAN maintenance felt then more frightening than the i 6 as did the consumption .Coming from what seemed like toy KAD 300 s .

Rudder bar with its 3 submerged rams put me off as well . There is a big yard at La Rague and I have lost count how many times I seen external rams taken off by subcontractors to be overhauled = seals busted .Anrnesons, hi lo bathing platforms, VP steering etc .

No need for the extra bed room - obviously that varies person to person .*

The beam vs berth fees conundrum .Yup depends on the particular marina where the next size cut off is ? Cruising in Co with a mate with a 4:3 M beam he in 8/10 ended up paying more as next size up .

Also personal thing the uncluttered larger cockpit space , sort of less is more works .

* we use the saloon berth occasionally and most other couples friends in our circles and age demographic actually hotel themselves . So I have stopped worrying about putting folks up .

 

[2002 itama 38]

Thanks so much for the detailed answer!!

In my case as well what puts me off with the 46 is usage costs, specifically consumption. 7,5 lts/mile vs 6 lts/mile implies +25% consumption. This is huge. I m used to 4,7-5 on my 38.

I also like my boats to look and feel athletic. The 38 does and so does the 42 while the 46 feels a little bulky..

In my eyes the biggest advantage of the 46 is that there are several in the Market to choose from while the 42's are (as you guys mentioned earlier) very rare. Not a problem in my case though because I m in no rush.
The only thing I d like to do is have the opportunity to see one physically. Because there are none in my country. While there is a 46, actually owned by a friend. So I ll probably search for a 42 AND a 46 to rent for a day cruise in nearby Italy and that way get a chance to sea-trial both.

If you re wonderig why I m not sea trialing my friend's 46 it's because his is with Arneson Drives and my 27 years at sea has taught me to simply STAY AWAY..

 

[MapisM]

7,5 lts/mile vs 6 lts/mile implies +25% consumption. This is huge.

Nah, it isn't.
Fuel burn relevance is way overrated, because it's just one component of the total cost of ownership, and not the most relevant.
Unless you are planning to do some very serious mile crunching, but if so you'd better consider a different boat.

 

[Portofino]

I was told by the St Tropez dealer the 46 s with the 15.4 L V 8s run at 230/240 Lt/ r .Theses are mechanically injection late 1990s tech . No sure what rpm or boat speed this burn equates to ?
The dealer just wrote the consumption figures with his finger in the dust on each boat hull in the hanger when I went to view .

The 42/48 I6 s have the MDDS screens with fuel flow amongst the 16 things shown .
I use cruising just under 30 knots 1760 rpm burning 180 L / hr ,
200 Lhr is over 1850 rpm and low thirties speed wise .

I try and remember they are coming up to 20 yrs old and sympathetically run them , just a gut feeling nothing scientific , they get fresh oil etc annually etc .Hence I really never exceed 1800 rpm .
Tend to keep them on or under 80 % load FWIW .American sport Fisher fraternity who run 1000 s per year swear by the 80 % rule clocking 6-8000 hrs between big overhauls . Worth copying I reckon .
I put this to my Italian MAN engineer and he nodded in agreement.

I bought it on 480 hrs and it’s just turned over a 1000 hrs in 6 seasons with only 1 sensor failure. No show stopper though.