What to buy Itama 38/45 and similar

[2002 itama 38]

Nah, it isn't.
Fuel burn relevance is way overrated, because it's just one component of the total cost of ownership, and not the most relevant.
Unless you are planning to do some very serious mile crunching, but if so you'd better consider a different boat.

You re very right! Didn't mention that I use it 8 monts/year & also as a means of transportation and do crazy miles. I live in Greece (island connection). It has replaced a 10m RIB that I used to have for this purpose which indeed burned 2lt/mile (gasoline..) but seriously damaged my back & knee and exhausted me in every bad weather trip (50% of the time). Now I get there as if I ve flown British Business class.
I imagine with the 42 it must be like Singapore First class..

 

[Portofino]

You re very right! Didn't mention that I use it 8 monts/year & also as a means of transportation and do crazy miles. I live in Greece (island connection). It has replaced a 10m RIB that I used to have for this purpose which indeed burned 2lt/mile (gasoline..) but seriously damaged my back & knee and exhausted me in every bad weather trip (50% of the time). Now I get there as if I ve flown British Business class.
I imagine with the 42 it must be like Singapore First class..

It sure is .
Glad you said that ,

I ve been trying to tell them since I arrived in Naples Nov 2014 in a F6 + big swell for a test drive and they me go to Capri in it …..and back .

Previous Sunseeker bounced around and bruised your feet and was on the verge of putting my wife off .

Welcome to my world ,

I have since read around the subject to try understand more and hopefully passed a bit of knowledge on .

Favourite one is this , Built for the then king of Saudi Arabia, hence the name .It was commissioned by Admiral the Super yacht maker of the new mothership as the sweetener to the deal a kinda present to be the chase boat .
Its the then 45 but Amarti installed it with stupido Hp engines triple , yes 3 nutter spec isotto Fraschini iirc almost 7-800 Hp H.So well over 2000 Hp in a 45 in the late 80,s early 90 s .You need a hull that can ride smooth at speed take that kind of Hp .


I mean 30 years on even theses days who’s putting in excess of 2000 Hp into there 45 hulls today It’s got a 4.5 m beam as well along with that comes accommodation space below, and cockpit space / seating up top .
It still around today in Italy btw .Tops out in excess of 50 knots .
Either a fast getaway boat if there was a security issue with the mothership or just a comfortable ride for the king as a tender ashore .

They say the best one , best hull he ever did was the 54/56 .
This 18 M hull had twin MAN V 12 s in excess of 1000 Hp in the 90 s .Cruise all day @ 40 knots ……in big seas .
Had all the basic ingredients.Deep V in excess of 20 degrees dead-rise , fine entry and fine mid sections , but crucially mid mounted engines , massive weights of the V 12 right in the centre .It’s all about the balance in the end .You want as much water line length as a much of the finer bow area to cut / part the waves as you can . As lower running angle as you can .

Once a fast planing boat starts to raise its bow and maybe still need bags of tab to get anywhere near flat running it’s game over ride wise ,That’s the ultimate undoing of rear engines OB s or sterndrives = the balance is inherently wrong .
Increase the running angle at speed and it takes off .Bang bang bang as it’s lands after every near take off .If it does take off which they all have a tendency you need a soft landing pad between the props to cushion the impact .

Going fast is easy .Going fast ( or in real life keeping speed in waves ) and staying comfortable is hard to do .You can’t cherry pick it’s all in tick all the boxes .Deviate and it’s compromised .

The new Itama 62 the Ferretti version of the 54/56 same hull has V drives , they expanded the accommodation Fwds , shoved the machinery space rear wards etc .So broke one of Amartis rules the balance one .
You can’t see balance running angles at boat shows .
Not by much , but enought.It’s got a 22 degree deadrise the deep V , but owners report it not a patch in big seas as the old ones .What’s happening is rather than spend €1.8 M on a new 62 , they are buying up older 56 s and 60 s and refurbishing them , bringing them up to date .

 

[2002 itama 38]

That's what I did with my 38. Bought it in September 2020, used it for a month (to understand the boat's strengths/weaknesses) and then striped it off completely and replaced everything with new. Both mechanically and aesthetically. It took 9 months. The end result (in my opinion) is the best of both worlds. Old/new.
My other option was a 2008 (ferretti)Itama Fourty which is (I think) the 38 hull but wider in general and especially at the bow (to make a bigger Master bedroom), engines pushed back with V Drives, thinner hull, and a design that lacks class. A very slow boat and mediocre at bad sea.
I would have had much more interior space, wider bed (mine is 135cm wide) and a more comfortable bathroom. I m 1,85cm.. But every time I m out at sea flying by everything else in any sea state, I m happy for my decision. I just didn't know back then that there existed a 42... I thought it was the 38 and then the 46 which is too big for my specific use.
I can't imagine what a 42, a 46 or a 54/56 would be like with new common rail technology engines etc.
By the way I made a mistake earlier mentioning I burn 4,7 - 5 lts/mile (memory issues..). Looking at my notes, with the new engines I burn 4 @ 30 knots and 4,3 @ 33 at 400 rpm below max. So if the 42 burns 6 then that's +50%. I will repeat this to myself everytime I get crammed in my bathroom or accidentally kicked over by my wife while asleep.

 

[MapisM]

I use it 8 monts/year & also as a means of transportation and do crazy miles. I live in Greece (island connection). It has replaced a 10m RIB that I used to have for this purpose which indeed burned 2lt/mile (gasoline..) but seriously damaged my back & knee and exhausted me in every bad weather trip (50% of the time).

Ok, in this case I appreciate that fuel burn can be somewhat relevant.
Then again, if fuel efficiency and need to cruise in bad weather are two crucial components for you, Itamas or any other similar boats should be the very last of your choices, imho.
I mean, pure open boats in bad weather? Really?
And interestingly, while Portofino is strongly supporting your interest in Itamas (quelle surprise! ), what he's actually telling is that his use is radically different than yours.
He makes 80 hours/year, go figure. And even if he didn't specify this, you can be sure that he picks the most glorious weather of the best summer months, before even thinking to movehis boat.
I'm not arguing that when the breeze builds up some waves his boat might be softer than others, and/or capable of keeping a bit higher speed.
But how relevant is that, in the type of semi-commercial usage that you are envisaging?
Show me any harbour pilot or SAR operator who is using an Itama to accomplish his job, and I will reconsider.
But as we all know, there's none, anywhere on the planet.
And neither that's what these boats were built for, to start with.
Just have a look at this old post, where I summarized the rationale behind Amati's brainchild...

 

[Portofino]

@Mapish , you own chuffing coppers have commissioned Ferretti to build 20 .
Quote below from MapishM.

“(But how relevant is that, in the type of semi-commercial usage that you are envisaging?
Show me any harbour pilot or SAR operator who is using an Itama to accomplish his job, and I will reconsider.
But as we all know, there's none, anywhere on the planet.
And neither that's what these boats were built for, to start with.
Just have a look at this old post, where I summarized the rationale behind Amati's brainchild...) “





Itama 46 which morphed into a FG 50


Photo call for the nations press .
I woz there .

20 the first few iirc 4 sent for immigration mitigation off Sicily.
May as well give them a comfy ride eh ! How kind of the authorities.Nice peeps Italians think of everyone.

 

[Portofino]

The D words mentioned here 22 degrees .

N800: the new Carabinieri Fast Patrol Vessel by FSD - EDR Magazine

 

[Portofino]

Capri this summer .Commercial charter boats / taxis back to Naples .
They have a choice .
Punters need that airport connection at hotel change over day .Talking VIP punters who aren’t keen on the ferry .Should it be working , or if working inline there timings .

Also those punters who have booked excursions on line in advance and payed up .” We are going out come hell or high water “ they have a business to run . The threshold of cocking off = refund is higher .

 

[julians]

All those caribinieri boats are not really itamas, OK same Hull, but the rest of the custom build (primarily the fully enclosed cockpits) completely changes their character and turns them from fast med day boat into fast all weather work boat.

Using an actual jtama to commute to a job does seem rather like using a lamborghini gallardo spider to commute round the m25 in all weather's, but each to their own I reckon. At least the gallardo can put a roof on when it's wet and cold.

It sounds like it would be a fun commute on the right days though.

 

[Portofino]

All those caribinieri boats are not really itamas, OK same Hull, but the rest of the custom build (primarily the fully enclosed cockpits) completely changes their character and turns them from fast med day boat into fast all weather work boat.

Using an actual jtama to commute to a job does seem rather like using a lamborghini gallardo spider to commute round the m25 in all weather's, but each to their own I reckon. At least the gallardo can put a roof on when it's wet and cold.

It sounds like it would be a fun commute on the right days though.

They choose it for the hull form as the article says .Just responding to Mapish comment .
Super structure shape as the materials a lot of CF in this case for light weight is irrelevant .
The Gallordo spyder analogy is wrong as the ride bit does not fit .Indeed it’s the other way round the Itama is the “Singapore airline first class travel“ not my words the OP s …the comfortable one .
Lambo is the back breaking ride ,speed bump sensitive, crap vis , impractical car on the road .
The Itama is the opposite in a sea .I do not get that analogy it does not work .
Talking Med here btw around GR .
No suggesting a Reykjavík citizen should consider one .

In bad weather you put up the front screen in a rag top civilian .Yes you do get spray but the point is you don’t have to slow down and the boats motion in a chop is comfortable as the OP reports , which is what theses boats are all about comfort .At sea ?
Note the white one far side of the jetty has a retro fitted HT fwiw .Last pic post #47 .

But theses are professionals not just the private owners using them commercially but the police and security agencies.
They must have had a input on picking the winner in the procurement process , the captains .As the technical chaps @ Ferretti .Picked the 50 hull to beat down the other tenders .
As the Sunseeker brokerage and the Fairline and even the Riva in the CdA they independently sent me to look @ Itama .
I asked they answered .

Some as I earlier mentioned refit older , as the OP s has done .Infact the refit / update market is increasing in Italy .
Irrespective of the top sides it’s the hull form they are after .
Take this 20 yr old 60 .

New gray paint, a HT ,and note the new style bonded salon hull glass in front of the air intakes .
The last editions of this 60 had the wait for it ……..1550 MANs it’s LOA is 18.6 M .

Now for comparison on this forum .Take a squadron 58 on 715 VP s or 800 s ?
Take Henrys 2022 new Priny on the optional 900 s std is 800 Volvos .Ok a 17 M boat a tad smaller but certainly higher .

Here is a none updated 56 ( 60 evolved from this ) with its front screen up .It from the mid 90 s with 1200 Hp MANs .

 

[2002 itama 38]

Gentlemen if we all had the same taste it would be a very boring world.
I don't use the boat for commercial use but to hop over to an island 27 miles from Athens and do my hobby there mostly on weekends and yes, 8 months a year.
A friend who does exactly the same thing uses a Targa 37. Great sea keeping, fast, safe, soft ride... Everything!! But I wouldn't get caught dead in one of those!! It's a matter of taste.
I love the wind blowing on my face (even cold wind) and hate, I repeat hate being inside a closed cabin. I get dizzy too.
What I don't like is getting spray on my face and on my sunglasses. But this has yet to happen on my 38!! It's so incredibly dry!!!
I wanted a boat that can get me to my favorite destination from March to November at any sea conditions and I think I got it.
Now I certainly agree that Amati did not design this boat for some stupid Greek who wants to go back and forth from Athens to Poros all year round in any weather with wind blowing on his face and while there stay for 1, max 2 nights but it happens to work just great for that!
The superstructure of a boat is a matter of taste and personal needs Gentlemen!
The hull and all the philosophy and technology in it is not!! That indeed is black&white.

 

[julians]

Gentlemen if we all had the same taste it would be a very boring world.
I don't use the boat for commercial use but to hop over to an island 27 miles from Athens and do my hobby there mostly on weekends and yes, 8 months a year.
A friend who does exactly the same thing uses a Targa 37. Great sea keeping, fast, safe, soft ride... Everything!! But I wouldn't get caught dead in one of those!! It's a matter of taste.
I love the wind blowing on my face (even cold wind) and hate, I repeat hate being inside a closed cabin. I get dizzy too.
What I don't like is getting spray on my face and on my sunglasses. But this has yet to happen on my 38!! It's so incredibly dry!!!
I wanted a boat that can get me to my favorite destination from March to November at any sea conditions and I think I got it.
Now I certainly agree that Amati did not design this boat for some stupid Greek who wants to go back and forth from Athens to Poros all year round in any weather with wind blowing on his face and while there stay for 1, max 2 nights but it happens to work just great for that!
The superstructure of a boat is a matter of taste and personal needs Gentlemen!
The hull and all the philosophy and technology in it is not!! That indeed is black&white.

Yep, agree, the world would be boring if everyone liked the same thing.

I'd love a go in an itama, to see what it's like, and I love that the shape hasn't changed hugely in 40 years.

 

[2002 itama 38]

And by the way when I said on an earlier post "bad weather" I meant bad sea conditions ie strong wind. We don't really have bad weather in this country. Not from March to October that is... So I see how I may have misled Mapis.

 

[Chris H]

I’ll just leave this hear...........

 

[MapisM]

Just responding to Mapish comment

Try harder, PF.
In my previous post I didn't specify "pure open boats" for nothing , and Julians already explained you that FSD might well have developed that boat using a hull mould that they had somewhere gathering dust - due to lack of orders, if you don't mind me specifying that.
But that's where the similarities with Itamas end, anyway.

I don't want to rub it in anyhow, because that's nowhere near as funny as the fact that you thought to prove myself wrong by posting an example of an Itama used for law enforcement, but you actually didn't.
The boat in your pics above, that you called an "Itama 46 which morphed into a FG 50", is one of the existing 800 class units, which were built in the 90s by CNG (Cantieri Navali del Golfo).
A yard that used to build mostly military vessels, and had bugger all to see with Itama.
Besides, that's larger and heavier than the FSD prototype, to the point of being powered by Iveco engines whose displacement is TWICE as much as the MANs, to give you an idea.
Just saying, since you seem to be struggling to identify your Itamas... ?

Anyway, THAT has actually been used as a patrol boat, and still is.
In fact, I just checked the Naval Service fleet on the Carabinieri website.
According to it, the number of FG "Itamas" (as you like to think they are) currently in service is...
.
.
.
As you are probably guessing by now....
.
.
.
Zero.

 

[Portofino]

Try harder, PF.
In my previous post I didn't specify "pure open boats" for nothing , and Julians already explained you that FSD might well have developed that boat using a hull mould that they had somewhere gathering dust - due to lack of orders, if you don't mind me specifying that.
But that's where the similarities with Itamas end, anyway.

I don't want to rub it in anyhow, because that's nowhere near as funny as the fact that you thought to prove myself wrong by posting an example of an Itama used for law enforcement, but you actually didn't.
The boat in your pics above, that you called an "Itama 46 which morphed into a FG 50", is one of the existing 800 class units, which were built in the 90s by CNG (Cantieri Navali del Golfo).
A yard that used to build mostly military vessels, and had bugger all to see with Itama.
Besides, that's larger and heavier than the FSD prototype, to the point of being powered by Iveco engines whose displacement is TWICE as much as the MANs, to give you an idea.
Just saying, since you seem to be struggling to identify your Itamas... ?

Anyway, THAT has actually been used as a patrol boat, and still is.
In fact, I just checked the Naval Service fleet on the Carabinieri website.
According to it, the number of FG "Itamas" (as you like to think they are) currently in service is...
.
.
.
As you are probably guessing by now....
.
.
.
Zero.

Quote from the link . Here I gave in post #46 N800: the new Carabinieri Fast Patrol Vessel by FSD - EDR Magazine

“The opportunity was to sea trial the latest product of Ferretti Security and Defence (FSD); “like the previous FSD 195, which was based on the Pershing 64 hull, the new FSD N800 HY is based on the 22° deadrise hull of the Itama 50 sport/pleasure yacht, Itama being also part of the Ferretti Group,” Andrea Ameli, the FSD Technical Director who developed the project, told EDR On-Line.
In the FSD 195 the whole hull design was kept, albeit deeply revised in terms of structure and materials, to considerably reduce weight while increasing rigidity, in order to increase speed, while in the case of the new N800 only the shape of the submerged part of the hull was kept, the whole topside boat being redesigned from scratch.


Me - looks pretty self explanatory to me .
Well those other pics of 820 are mine off Gallinara this summer , That’s my ensign in the first btw bottom rhs .

Aside my Reykjavik quip and the reference to the OP s GR I thought put to bed the open vs closed conundrum.
Op later nailed that anyhow in his post #50;
Save you looking up here …

” I love the wind blowing on my face (even cold wind) and hate, I repeat hate being inside a closed cabin. I get dizzy too.
What I don't like is getting spray on my face and on my sunglasses. But this has yet to happen on my 38!! It's so incredibly dry!!!”

Well if he gets a 42/48 it’s gonna be disappointing on the “ wind blowing in my face “ score because the screen when sat on the helm seat works .No baffling or buffeting .
To get that you have to stand up on a box to get your head out .
Re spray once the boat speed gets to a certain level ie moves x m over a shorter time the spray misses the cockpit and lands on the rear sun pads .
Anyhow this is about hull ride comfort .How ever I do get the enc cockpit in winter N EU boating ( done enough btw ) thingy adding to comfort in terms of wind chill and freezing water going down your neck etc etc and for that you guys calling out an Itama as a winter commuter .
But the residents of Capri / Naples and few other areas simply use the front screen if necessary.
Are you saying they use the wrong boat or something ?

 

[Portofino]

Well any folks ideas what the OP should get next for his Athens to Poros commute .
As opposed to trashing his I38 …….because if he stands up he feels the southern Med wind . Is that it ? Just that ?

He‘s had a rib if that’s any help ? Painful .

 

[petem]

Well any folks ideas what the OP should get next for his Athens to Poros commute .
As opposed to trashing his I38 …….because if he stands up he feels the southern Med wind . Is that it ? Just that ?

He‘s had a rib if that’s any help ? Painful .

Botnia Targa or Axopar.

 

[MapisM]

Are you saying they use the wrong boat or something ?

Hellloooooo Porto, do you hear me?

I started saying that nobody in his right mind would remotely consider Itamas as pilot or SAR boats.
You thought to prove me wrong by posting pics of a boat convinced that she was built on an Itama hull.
And now you tell me that you actually saw her in flesh, and you didn't realize that she has absolutely nothing to see with Itama?
Are you for real?

Anyway, all the examples you posted, bar none, are only strenghtening what Itamas are all about, as I already summarized here more than one year ago.
But boats for actually going places, that's precisely what Itamas are NOT, and this is a fact whether you like it or not.
The Capri/Naples crossing is even shorter than the already short hop to Ponza that I used as an example in my old post.
And also Athens to Poros is in the same ballpark, and particularly now that our Greek friend clarified his wishes, of course an Itama can handle that - as many other boats would, like those suggested by Petem, but not only.

But anyone interested in long and fast crossings in serious conditions should rather pick a boat designed for that, like those from FB Design for instance.
Which in fact established countless records, like the NYC to Bermuda with a 41' boat, averaging (!) 40+ kts.
Try that with any Itama, and aside from being unable to keep anywhere near that speed in the same conditions, you would be stranded in the middle of the ocean with no fuel just about half way.

 

[Portofino]

Hellloooooo Porto, do you hear me?

I started saying that nobody in his right mind would remotely consider Itamas as pilot or SAR boats.
You thought to prove me wrong by posting pics of a boat convinced that she was built on an Itama hull.
And now you tell me that you actually saw her in flesh, and you didn't realize that she has absolutely nothing to see with Itama?
Are you for real?

Anyway, all the examples you posted, bar none, are only strenghtening what Itamas are all about, as I already summarized here more than one year ago.
But boats for actually going places, that's precisely what Itamas are NOT, and this is a fact whether you like it or not.
The Capri/Naples crossing is even shorter than the already short hop to Ponza that I used as an example in my old post.
And also Athens to Poros is in the same ballpark, and particularly now that our Greek friend clarified his wishes, of course an Itama can handle that - as many other boats would, like those suggested by Petem, but not only.

But anyone interested in long and fast crossings in serious conditions should rather pick a boat designed for that, like those from FB Design for instance.
Which in fact established countless records, like the NYC to Bermuda with a 41' boat for instance, averaging (!) 40+ kts.
Try that with any Itama, and aside from being unable to keep anywhere near that speed in the same conditions, you would be stranded in the middle of the ocean with no fuel just about half way.

They are replacing those older ones from the yard you quoted with the N 800 Itama 50 based hull .
Says it all .

But they have considered it replacing those old patrol boats with the Ferretti based Itama 50 hull .
Infact the hull bit is identical, it’s just the custom top sides and what ever modern materials Eg CF .

Ok I,am not up to date with the del schedule, suspect it been knock off course by Covid ?
Your Carabiniere are getting a Itama 50 hulled patrol boats . Period .
First ones for the Slcily - Lampudusa patch . Not sure why you are emphatic re …..” zero “ …..? ? Delivered .Covid aside they are coming .The decision has been made .
I would like to say the die is cast but it’s been cast ( hull mould plug ) for over 25years waaaay back in Amartis days .As you rightly pointed out in the back of yard gathering dust .

I know this vid looks like an Italian fancy dress party , but I assure uk members they actually dress like that and this is boat hand over

VESSEL REVIEW | Ciriaco Carrù – Italy's Carabinieri acquires lead unit of new patrol boat series - Baird Maritime


The ops given his logical rationale re choice makes sense .Even went to the hassle of refurbing an old one .For the ride comfort .

Agree with boat chiose it all depends what you are going to use it for .

Why don’t you ask your nice Carabiniere why they choose a Itama 50 hull ? , signed off the Ferretti tender .

 

[MapisM]

It's pointless to ask anyone, 'cause you'd never get the true answer, which gut feeling tells me it's very different from the one you're envisaging.
In fact, Itama hulls (the real ones, not this FG version, V-drive based) were around also when they picked the CNG vessel that you confused with an Itama.
By the same token, you should ask yourself why they didn't ask Amati to build the boats for them back in those days...

That said, if the idea that Carabinieri are going to use some boats with an extremely remote relationship with Itamas makes you feel (even more, in spite of how hard it is to imagine such possibility!) proud of your own, well, to quote a famous Pope Francis statement, who am I to judge...?