what should I do?

[Major Catastrophe]

I would appreciate some advice.

I bought a new boat and trailer from a 'reputable' dealer and took delivery in August 2004. I have only ever recovered the boat onto the trailer twice and both occasions the keel has hit both of the axles and taken off gel coart and filler down to the fibre glass, as shown in a previous post of mine.

When I showed this to the dealer they suggested trailer was not set up correctly and said they would look at it after I had completed the repair on the keel. So I bought the materials needed to do the repair and reinstate anti foul.

Also in August they undertook the first service on the engine, Suzuki 90 hp and when I collected the boat I was charged £100 for the service and paid by debit card.

Today I have received another bill for £164.23 labour, £9.95 Oil filter, £15.37 Gear Oil and £18.95 Engine Oil.

With VAT this comes to £208.50

The statement does not acknowledge that I have paid, what I was told was the the amount owing, of £100.

Now, do I tell them I have already paid what I was told was due when I collected the boat and can whistle for the rest, do the repair myself and then get them to adjust the trailer, or do I produce the evidence I have already paid £100 by debit card and pay the balance and then chuck the boat back to them to sort out the damage as they had not set up the trailer properly in the first place, or do I refuse to pay the balance and still ask them to repair the boat at their expence?

Or... do I pay the balance, repair the boat myself, sort the trailer out and do odd jobs around the yard until I have discharged all present and future debts to them?

Forum advice and guidence would be appreciated as I am becoming increasingly nervous about doing my first repair on a boat that is on a trailer with the repair surface 3 inches above the trailer metal work! Not only that, but I don't like suddenly finding out I apparently owe money.

 

[Nick_H]

Have you considered ringing them and asking if there has been a mix up with the bill?

 

[hlb]

£100 sounds very cheap for a service. Why not give them a friendly phone call, or better still call round and have a friendly word with them, maybe they have forgoten about the £100, or maybe it was a sort of down payment. My guy charges £200 for servicing little outboards. But says, it's not worth it as a new one is only £600, so run it till it's F***ed. It's ten to fifteen years old now!!

Think trailer design would depend on where launching. Steep or shallow. Imposible to get right, by them and you should adjust accordingly.

 

[David_Jersey]

As already siad, give them a freindly call - just to see if they have made an error, but unless the £100 quote was a special deal (it's seems a very round figure for a start!), this does seem on the low side, bearing in mind the cost of parts and that THIS may have been the wrong figure /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif - I guess you did not keep the bill you paid by Debit card?

I dunno much aboyt trailers but I am guessing that if it can be adjusted relatively easily (ie 10 Minutes with a spanner and a bit of knowledge - rather than any major work) that this also means that it can "move" - so I think that after a year the dealer would be entitled to think that this has nothing to with them and is just down to use (they only have your word on the 2 launches).......even if it was actually their fault, so if you can get this for free then all well and good.

You will probably find that the adjustment process is quite simple (when you know how!) so I would suggest that you watch what they do for future reference.

Have read your previous thread, and as someone said - Carpet or matting is the way to go - cos some places will always come into contact "at the wrong moment".

 

[Its_Only_Money]

It may be impossible to avoid having the fwd keel area hit the axles depending on the angle of trailer and slip and the shape of the hull and configuration of the trailer rollers and/or bunks.

If this looks to be the case then it may be possible to mount a roller on the top of each axle purely to protect the keel when launching and recovering - but mounted low enough such that it takes no weight when the boat is fully on the trailer.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Thanks for all your replies. Yes, on second thoughts I will give them call. I thought they were trying it on as I asked what the cost was and paid. l Should have mentioned that it took them four months to book it in for service and in the end I had to write to one of the directors.

I don't like the option of not servicing the engine Haydn, as a new one is currently £7200!!

I could adjust the trailer myself, but I was promised that the SBS easyloader trailer was foolproof and I would like them to show me that it is. I have already looked at the possibility of additional rollers to take the keel, but apparently there are problems fiiting them as the axle members have an odd profile for fitting them. May have to have something custom made.

There is no problem with them over the two recoveries and they know the problem is caused by the trailer.

I am just a bit miffed that having bought a boat and trailer, I am at risk of damaging it everythime I recover it.

 

[GC1]

There is quite a skill to get the right trailer for the right boat. My last boat had a stepped hull and a trailer with I think 36 pneumatic tyres was made for it, these all needed adjusted in order to get the correct fit and hitch weight of 75kg. My present trailer is a bunk so lightly easier but still needed tweeked to get the balance and hitch weight right. It is so much easier with the dealer doing it where they have the crane, you could use a trolley jack but a bit of a nightmare and time consuming.

 

[Colin_S]

Just a thought but will they be able to adjust the trailer with the boat on it. If not, any repair you make will possibly end up getting undone when the boat is 'removed' from the trailer.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

The trailer is a standard two axle trailer with for sets of eight rollers. On this pic, you can see the two axles. The dealers want to raise the back set up about four inches, but I cannot see how this will cure the problem as the keel hits the axles before being picked up by the forward set of rollers.

And this is the damage being caused.

 

[Colin_S]

As someone else mentioned, some strategically placed keel rollers should do the trick just to keep the nose up and clear of the axles. Few pics here http://www.degraafftrailers.co.uk/boattrailers.htm

 

[zeros]

from the picture it is a bit difficult to see what part is being damaged. However we used to have a deep vee forward section on our old rib and if the angle of the slope was steep and the trailer was in the water at the wrong depth our keel used to catch. What boat is it and what part of the trailer is catching the boat?

 

[Talbot]

Looks to me as if the trailer has been set up for the boat being craned onto the trailer. If you are going to continue to self recover, then keel line rollers are essential.

 

[Nick_H]

Are you getting the trailer deep enough in the water? The bow of the boat should float over at least the tail section of the trailer.

 

[PCUK]

There's no rocket salad about trailers. You put rollers or pads anywhere the boat is likely to strike. If it is a brand name trailer then all necessary parts will be easily available.
If you can't get any satisfaction and are anywhere near Devon, I'll sort it all out for you, trailer and hull repair.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

The damage is on the bow area of the keel and is caused by the front of the boat hitting the rear axle first, then the second axle before the front of the boat is picked up by the forward rollers. The trailer is put into the water so that the rear wheels of the car are touching the water. When recovering the boat, we can actually float the boat over the rear rollers!

The rear rollers cannot move any further forward, but they can be raised by another few inches, but I am not sure this will cure the problem.

I believe the only solution is to have some keel rollers installed so that they lift the keel off the axles, but do not touch the keel when boat is fully on the trailer.

The trailer is recommended by Beneteau, or so I was told, as the best trailer for easy launch and recover. It is not and I seem to be left with the bill for the damage.

The dealers have offered to see if they can set the trailer up better, but are not confident they can solve the problem as they will not fit keel rollers themselves.

I think I will go and talk to SBS Trailers.

 

[mjkinch1]

I have the same trailer as the one shown, which I take on and off a maxum 21' - but mine has rubber keel rollers, three in fact, one rear, middle and towards the front. As we pull the boat on the keel hits the first roller, and then basically gets pulled on - no touching anything.

Martyn


The keel can never touch the trailer on mine as the rollers keep it clear, then it gets balanced by the rest of the outer pads/rollers (never was one for technical terms)

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Is there any chance you can post a pic of the keel rollers and how they are fitted as the axles have an odd profile. If you can't display pics please PM me.

 

[Chris771]

Having had a number of boats with "Roller Coaster type Trailers" I gained experience rapidly with similar problems.
The reason that you scrape axle crossmembers is because the boat is not being lifted by the rear rollers before the keel strikes the axles.
There are two reasons for this, firstly the trailer is being put too far into the water or the rear rollers are either too low or too widely spaced.

I always found the best set up was to have the rear rollers set as close together as possible without fouling the keel, just about 6 to 8 inches gap, don't worry the boat will self centre as it pulls onto the trailer.
With this type of trailer the object is not to float the boat onto the trailer, if you intend to do that the trailer should be completely submerged so that it will not contact the axle crossmembers before gaining support from the front rollers.
Aim to get the rear rollers just breaking the surface (obviously make sure that they are well lubricated on their shafts and free to rotate) then connect the the winch hook to the pulling eye( which must be strong enough and bow reinforced for the job) start winching the boat onto the rear rollers. They should be high enough to start lifting the bow. If the bow does not rise they are too far apart. Once the bow rises (which can be a bit disconcerting the first time, with a fine bow just seeming to go up rather than forward onto the trailer initially) the weight of the engine will cause the stern to remain in the water until the boat is well onto the trailer. This is why it is imperative not to put the trailer too deep, you need the engine weight to assist in holding the bow clear of the axles. Eventually you reach the balance point and continue winching gently until the winch pulls the bow down onto the bow rollers, which also should be spaced as close together as possible to catch the bow before the keel can come into contact with the axles.
Once again the most common problem with this type of trailer is people putting it too deep into the water. I always used to have mine parked so that I could see the axle crossmembers, then if the keel was about to touch the crossmembers, I simply pulled the truck forward UP the slipway a couple of feet and the engine weight lifted the bow.
If the keel contacts the crossmembers, you must get the trailer further out of the water or you will cause the damage you are experiencing.
It sounds as though the suppliers have not properly briefed you on the operational principles of this type of trailer and have left you to find out the hard way. They are designed to use the winch to pull the boat clear of the water, the rollers provide support over a large surface area and will not cause damage.
I recall with a large Indespension Roller Coaster, my first of this type, I bought about 20 years ago I had the same problem, then I looked at the launching photograph on their catalogue and realised the trailer only just had the rear pair of wheels about 4 inches into the water. The boat was being pulled out along the rollers, not by submerging the trailer.

I hope this helps

Chris

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Chris, I think you have answered the problem. As I said in an earlier post, the trailer was so deep we could move the boat OVER the rear rollers. I can see what was happening now, the boat was remaing afloat hitting the axles and then being lifted by the front rollers, instead of being lifted clear by the rear rollers first. Obvious now I think of it.

I am not sure waht you mean by having only a 6 to 8 inches gap between the rollers, if you mean width wise, won't that make the boat unstable on the trailer, especially when cornering? I have just measured the rear rollers and the left and right set of double rollers are 31 inches apart.

Chris

 

[Colin_S]

One thing to watch with Chris's suggestion is that, particularly if your ramp has a shallow slope, the stern of the boat doesn't ground and drag or you'll end up with the same damage but to a different part of the hull.