What now, Skipper?

DeeGee

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 Feb 2003
Messages
1,663
Location
North Brittany.
Visit site
The local Breton club have arranged a cruise to the east coast of Ile de Brehat, for an weekend overnight stop at a little mousehole, not identified in any pilot books, and thus peaceful and ‘plenty of room’. Until the day of the cruise, Skip and Wife have no idea of where the mousehole is, depths etc. The trip is to be led by a local pilot (marine), who has little need of charts.

On Saturday, there is a briefing at 12, with departure at 1530, using the last hour of the spring ebb. The forecast is overcast, virtually no wind, with some F4 NE coming in Saturday night and Sunday. So, at least, the return trip should be fun – coming back on the spring ebb, will be about 3kts, wind with tide for a change. HW at the mousehole will be about 2230, LW 0500 Sunday.

A pleasant 20mile motor, follow my leader, finds Skip and Wife at ‘the mousehole’. The biggest ship, a 42ft Moody, with 35m of chain and 45lb CQR, drops in a spot which will be 3.5m LW, 12.5m HW, Mr Moody mentions that he has put 25m out. As it is v calm and flat, Skip and Wife, with two other boats are quite content to raft up to the Moody for a convivial evening. Skip flakes out before the party is over, as he is knackered from a soiree the night before.

Skip wakes up at 0100, to find the boat pitching a lot, and goes up to have a look at things. It is blowing 14kts, and there is no sight of any other boats, just Skip and the Moody. Skip, with a low freeboard 36ft, is pitching out of synch with the Moody, and the 1.5m lateral gap which Skip had arranged between their masts now seemed rather small. Skip thought about the Moody’s scope, but since it is now half-tide, it is past worrying about. The pitching is something else. The sky is still 100% o/cast, and there is NO moonlight or starlight. The only thing to be seen is the Moody’s anchor-light. It is clear to Skip that the pitching is likely to get some roll going with is at some point, and then the rigging of the two boats will be in serious trouble. The thought of the damage makes Skip’s mind up – he has to move, and put down his own hook. Mr Moody is in full agreement.

The mousehole is about 100m wide, and there is about 100m from the ‘mouth’ of the mousehole till it gets too shallow. The northern and southern sides are nasty craggy rocks with some sticky-up outliers. To the west are shallows, to the east is the open sea, and the sea is clearly getting well stirred up by the NE’y. Go out to the east, and it will be wind against tide (ebb tide will be running up the eastern coast at about 3kts by now – most of the reason for the confused sea, even in the mousehole).

Skip has a powerful hand-held searchlight. He now uses it for a look around. The rocks to the North look v near, so do the ones to the South. His Yeoman plotter is downstairs, Wife can do the helming, but with Skip at the bow to drop the chain, there is noone to plot where they are. The searchlight is a spotlight and can only be used from the cockpit, it shows only the place it is pointed at, and kills any chance of night vision, even if there were starlight.

The area outside the mousehole is somewhere Skip has never been, he has charts, but the channel down to the River Trieux is narrow, and had numerous dangers. The tide is running 3kts northerly up that channel against the tide. To the North is the open sea, but it would mean beating up confused water with 3kts escalator underneath.

What now, Skipper ?
 
give the spotlight to the moody skipper and tell him to point it at a spot 30m NW of his boat and also put his nav light on to help relate your position to his.
go to lit up spot and drop anchor on 25m rode
sleep
 
how about drop anchor where we are right now, and move back to lie behind the moody? Or before that- and depending on conditions - how about drop hook to reduce pitching and stay tied to moody but just a bit further back so attached with fenders but masts welll apart? LW is coming so conditions likely to improve in this hole innit?
 
[ QUOTE ]
give the spotlight to the moody skipper and tell him to point it at a spot 30m NW of his boat and also put his nav light on to help relate your position to his.
go to lit up spot and drop anchor on 25m rode
sleep

[/ QUOTE ]Like this one best so far. Not what Skip did tho.
 
[ QUOTE ]
how about drop anchor where we are right now, and move back to lie behind the moody? Or before that- and depending on conditions - how about drop hook to reduce pitching and stay tied to moody but just a bit further back so attached with fenders but masts welll apart? LW is coming so conditions likely to improve in this hole innit?

[/ QUOTE ]
First suggestion good, but Mr Moody was not much more than 25-30m from the southern shore. Not enough for Skip's safety. The second suggestion is not on when pitching and rolling present. Skip will never stay rafted up on someone else for the night with wind from open sea forecast, ever. It is the fact that both boats can be doing the opposite at the same time. Horrible to behold.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Move back and hang off the Moody's stern if he's happy about his hook?


[/ QUOTE ]

That would be my first instinct.

hang of the back on a short length of warp or chain damped with an anchor in the middle.

Then have a rethink when the noise and crashing about has stopped.
 
[ QUOTE ]
So that's why it's not in any of the pilot books!.

Move back and hang off the Moody's stern if he's happy about his hook?

Then do some serious thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]Looking back to the southern shore from the back of Mr Moody looked awfully close, 25-30m at most, with some warp between and 11m, Skip's stern would be SOOO uncomfortably close.
With 100m roughly from S to N side, Mr Moody dropped his hook pretty near the middle.
 
I'd be thinking of motoring slowly about 3-4 boat lengths at 45º to the Moody's starboard bow - i.e effectively east of and a bit upwind - to drop my hook on chain ( min. 4 x depth of water), setting it solidly, then dropping back to somewhere abeam the Moody about a couple of boat lengths clear.

I'd then rig a 'bridle' from the port rear fairlead to the anchor chain ( rolling hitch ), and let out another couple of metres chain. This would give a slight sheer to starboard, to keep me away from the Moody.

I'd also secure a trip-line/float to my anchor, in case I needed to 'cut and run'; I'd keep my engine running in neutral, and watchkeep until all danger was past - usually dawn.

I'd also encourage Mr. Moody to keep his deck lights and engine on, and keep an anchor watch until the situation eased, as there is a continued risk of dragging.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'd be thinking of motoring slowly about 3-4 boat lengths at 45º to the Moody's starboard bow - i.e effectively east of and a bit upwind - to drop my hook on chain ( min. 4 x depth of water), setting it solidly, then dropping back to somewhere abeam the Moody about a couple of boat lengths clear.

I'd then rig a 'bridle' from the port rear fairlead to the anchor chain ( rolling hitch ), and let out another couple of metres chain. This would give a slight sheer to starboard, to keep me away from the Moody.

I'd also secure a trip-line/float to my anchor, in case I needed to 'cut and run'; I'd keep my engine running in neutral, and watchkeep until all danger was past - usually dawn.

I'd also encourage Mr. Moody to keep his deck lights and engine on, and keep an anchor watch until the situation eased, as there is a continued risk of dragging.

[/ QUOTE ]Your Para 1 was pretty much what Skip tried. But the water was so confused that Skip rapidly found his heading shifting about all over the place, and he couldn't stare at the compass. After heading in roughly the right direction until the rocks seemed "quite near !!", Skip dropped his hook, and slowly dropped back directly to ww of Mr Moody, long before even 3:1 scope out. Possibly the boat may have stabilised elsewhere, but Skip hauled hook up again and started motoring around in the dark. His original plan was to be supported by using the searchlight to keep a specifically shaped rock to north, a spec. rock to south and complete the triangle with Mr Moody. Despite the lumpy seas, Skip didn't hit anything (100m square roughly, with one boat moored off the middle seems to leave v little room). Motoring back with searchlight to original 'triangulation', dropped hook again and let out 3:1 scope, setting hook with about 2:1. Ended up dead on Mr Moody's bow, about a boat-lenght away. Mr Moody then shed some more chain and dropped back about 5m. From then on, peace reigned. It was praps the worst moment of Skip's boating career, which seemed to be doomed to an abrupt end.

Rigging a bridle would have been a good idea, but the holding had already been proved good (twas sandy-mud, no weed) by Mr Moody.

If Skip had had another hand, he thought paying out a long (40m) warp as he left Mr Moody might have given him a vector back to Mr Moody, so placing himself quite accurately. Might have worked, don't know.

(PS. looking at the charts now, Skip reckons the 100m N-S dimension was nearer 80m.
 
lessons learnt

So, he could have done exactly as i and others said, drop hook and move back, praps keep a line on the moody as insurance - cos the moody was able to move back and its holding was proven.

Poor thinking to let go as first gambit in poor conditions, in the dark, on falling tide. Poor planning to be there at all - everyone else had left, hm?

Not good to be so heavily dependent on someone else's navigation: there are no "secret holes" that don't exist on any charts or any gps. Likewise, Skip had apparently no ideas of forecast: altho 14 knots doesn't really comprise hellish godawful conditions - the others had left the rock-strewn "hole" and apparently gotten clean away. Too much evening merriment praps?

Summary - nice writeup makes this seem a set of puzzling happenstances in YM style - whereas in fact this was a bit of a cockup, a lucky escape and not really very awful conditions.

Most of all - Skip needs to get some training so that he doesn't (ever again) jump eagerly at the "opportunity" of following someone who "doesn't need charts".
 
Re: lessons learnt

[ QUOTE ]
So, he could have done exactly as i and others said, drop hook and move back, praps keep a line on the moody as insurance - cos the moody was able to move back and its holding was proven.

Poor thinking to let go as first gambit in poor conditions, in the dark, on falling tide. Poor planning to be there at all - everyone else had left, hm?

Not good to be so heavily dependent on someone else's navigation: there are no "secret holes" that don't exist on any charts or any gps. Likewise, Skip had apparently no ideas of forecast: altho 14 knots doesn't really comprise hellish godawful conditions - the others had left the rock-strewn "hole" and apparently gotten clean away. Too much evening merriment praps?

Summary - nice writeup makes this seem a set of puzzling happenstances in YM style - whereas in fact this was a bit of a cockup, a lucky escape and not really very awful conditions.

Most of all - Skip needs to get some training so that he doesn't (ever again) jump eagerly at the "opportunity" of following someone who "doesn't need charts".

[/ QUOTE ]Yes, hindsight is wonderful. You missed my reply that Skip couldn't drop back, as there was hardly enough to the south to be able to reliably set. Otherwise, there are some other things to be said: first, Skip actually didn't like it at all . The anchorage was v small. The forecast was spot on, 14kts, but you are right, silly Skip should not have accepted the word of a local marine pilot - Skip did his best with the info available, a local was piloting to the destination, it was declared safe from the expected NE (but wasn't as it turned out). The boats were pitching independently by about 1.5m each, so we are talking about a diffential pitch of 3m, not easy to USE the Moody in any realistic way.

In essence, it was Skip's fault that he found himself in the situation. Mr Moody was reluctant to wake Skip when the local pilot and the others (2 boats) departed for calmer waters.

Skip had no alternative but to cast off from the Moody, given inability to drop back sufficiently for safety. Keeping a line on the Moody could have been disastrous with nobody to be totally dedicated to it. Wife could not helm and ease or check a line at the same time, and Skip didnt want a line round the prop as an extra dimension!!

Your comments about not needing charts is echoing my commentary, Skip was Very wary of that and made his own passage plan, and stuck to it - the follow my leader wasnt all follow, pilot went over some shallows that Skip avoided. The pilot had promised deep enough water into the mousehole, but it turned out to be only about 100m at best from open unprotected water to shallows. I disagree with you about charted depths, I have visited a number of places where the charts were way out. The charts of this area SHOM are dated from 1800's, rocks dont move, but sand and mud does.

I agree there was a fair element of luck - but the conditions were pretty awful, praps I downplayed them in my commentary. The 14kts against 2 or 3 kts outside were really kicking up - the mousehole was part of a route through the rocks back to the water, so a fair current must have been going through.

Bottom line is that Skip managed (with luck) managed to get out of a nasty situation, and he is well aware of the lessons involved. That is why I started this thread - to get some other ideas for next time Skip is in anything like this situation. Skip is grateful for the suggestions made here. I wonder how many other people have NOT found themselves in a tricky situation they didn't foresee.
 
Re: lessons learnt

Looking at what has been posted here has been v useful. I think the best thing would have been to just motor forward v little to port (was rafted to port side of Moody) and dropped and fallen back as you suggest - just another 10m or so would probably do the trick. Of course, if the hook didn't set easy, Skip would have been back where he was, which is where duncan's suggestion of giving the light to Mr Moody to shine on a spot NW 30m would have been a good idea.
 
No, it is Just above Ile Logodec. The centre of the mousehole is at 48d 50.4 N, 002d 59.23 W.

In actual fact the inlet axis is not EW as I described for simplicity, but I altered everything else accordingly.

It is amazing that the more practice one has, the luckier you get at this game (just like golf).
 
[ QUOTE ]
not sure I agree - whilst golf is primarily about practice (then experience) this boating lark has the biggest wins on experience first then practice

[/ QUOTE ]I hadn't intended the metaphor to be that strong. Have you checked out the little mousehole? Is it known to you?
 
Can see the area you are referring to but haven't been there.

Runs SE->NW

Looks a nice little spot - just a couple of extra metre depth there then?

btw The rock I was suggesting you fished downtide of (ie West of on the Ebb etc) is at 3.10.67W 48.54.80N.
 
Top