What now skipper

[kingfisher]

It is the end of the season. Your 31ft yacht lies in Terneuzen. You winter close to your home in Brussels. The Brussels yacht club organises the return: on saturday you have to sail the 26 Nm from Terneuzen to Antwerp (other club boats are coming from Breskens, Flushing, Oostende...), where the club has foreseen a nice dinner party. On Sunday it is Antwerp-Brussels, through the Brussels canal, which means negotiating two locks and umpteen bridges. This is where the help from the club kicks in, as this will be done in convoy, with the port authority boat leading.

The bit from Terneuzen is comparable to Queenborough-London: sailing a broad tidal river, ending in motoring an industrial canal.

Low water at 10.30h, high water in Antwerp at 18.30. It is spring tide

Your father in law drops you and your wife, who is ending her second sailing season, off at the boat at 11.00. It is a miserable november morning. The weather station at the harbour office reads 4-5 bft E-NE, 7°C and it starts to drizzle. Visibility is about 2Nm

Antwerp is roughly in easterly direction, but the river meanders, so some tacking and most of the rest hard on the wind. Your boat is not the driest of boats.

Departure doubt starts to creep in. Your wife is buttoning up and getting ready to board the boat, so she still has confidence. You're having second thoughts, but you realise that you have been through worse together this summer (an F7-8 rund from Ramsgate to Oostende, for instance). Also, if you abort now it means you don't get the convoy to Brussels, and that you will have to move the boat later anyway. The next period where the tides will be favourable is in two weeks.

 

[rr_123]

I'm confused.

Reading this more than once, it would appear that the doubt is being seeded because it has started to drizzle.

Errrmmmm.....

WNS - take up knitting?

 

[bilbobaggins]

If the wind doesn't serve, and it's wet and dreary, fire up the 'Iron Topsail' and just deliver the boat to the planned night-stop and a decent dinner.....

It's November. Get over it....

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[oldharry]

Its November. Thats what November sailing is about. You get cold, you get wet, then you get colder still! Thats why I was tucked up in front of telly yesterday PM instead of beating round the Solent as planned. In fact thats what I have been doing all this long and dreary summer, it seems /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[kingfisher]

I'm glad you agree with me: we left. An hour later my wife fell overboard. After 20 mins I was able to retrieve her. She is now in hospital, recovering from severe hypothermia.

Which is not what happened, but what could have been. OK, it's official, I'm a wuss.

We arrived at the port, stepped out of the car, and the brain just said "no way". Here are a few arguments for those gung-ho november sailors:
1) The boat: Its a 3-ton boat with a 15year old volvo penta 2001, rated at 9 hp. So with the engine, we would not be able to make any headway above the current. 4 knots for a distance of 26 miles means 6-7 hours, meaning probably losing the tide at the end of the day. It will certainly be dark by then.
Tacking and current means a VMG of 4-5 knots. See above.
Also, there is no shelter in the boat: no heating, no sprayhood.
2) Crew: my wife is at the end of her second sailing season, and is just now beginning to understand what it will be like at sea, given the conditions on shore. Her confidence was mostly due to her ignorance (shows you how it is bliss).
3) Weather: Conditions like this can kill easier than you think: when standing on the pier, looking into the wind, your eyes would water instantly. The cold would be numbing in an hour, slowing your thinking process, and numbing your movements. Water temperature is down to single digits. The first symptoms of hypothermia is shivering, which I was already in. A warning had been isued for F6, together with possible showers, which wouldn't aid the visibility. While we were at the boat, the wind really piped up. The weather was supposed to clear up in the afternoon. In the end, it was a miserable rainy and windy day untill the night.

In conclusion: it's a hobby, ffs. If you're doing it because you have to earn a living (volvo ocean sailor, fishermen,..), fine, but otherwise learn to walk away. I've heard so many disaster stories, where the first mistake was leaving port, because they "had to be in the office on Monday".
I don't like to go out in conditions where a single mistake would have dire consequences. There is no port of refuge between Terneuzen and Antwerp, so once committed, there is no abort. I like to have a plan B, which I didn't have here for many scenarios (no second port, engine can't replace sail).
With a bigger, drier boat, maybe yes. With a boat with a big engine and an internal steering pos: definitely. WIth a wet open half-tonner? Naaaah. I was glad to be sipping coffee in front of the TV

 

[Daedelus]

To be fair there wasn't all the information in the question.

However, you are the skipper, you should know your own boat and crew better and have a better idea of the local conditions and it's your decision - always.

Have a nice day on the boat in the warm (hopefully) still moored up, or go and enjoy nearby pub or town. Try and earn brownie points by saying "I'm thinking of you dear" /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[kingfisher]

I tried to add all the information, but that was difficult without biasing the story one way or another.

The important facts were there:
...not the driest of boat... (doubts about the suitability of the boat)
...started to drizzle...(weather is worsening)
...the fact that the distance and hours left in the favourable tide are not optimal conclusions: when we arrived, the tide was already running for one hour. We still have to load up the boat and get her ready. 26 Nm is a long slog against the wind in any 31 ft boat.

Again, I made my decision, somebody else might take another view. It would certainly depend on the boat. When I decided to cancel, there were two boats out on the water, and another boat's crew was preparing to set sail. However, when I explained my decision to my wife she look at the other two guys and asked 'what about them, then". I said that that was their decision.

I still think that not leaving was the right decision. But leaving was not the wrong decision, just more risky and lots more uncomfartable. When I was younger I would have left. I used to sail in sleat and snow. But now I got wiser.

I also got more scared to the point where I have a knot in my stomach every time I leave port. Luckily that disappears once underway. But making that all important departure decision is always the killer.

 

[Blueboatman]

Terneuzen..
Well I suppose you could go for a coffee, that's what all the Belgian visitors seemed to do

'Gentlemen don't go to windward'

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[david_bagshaw]

[ QUOTE ]
There is no port of refuge between Terneuzen and Antwerp, so once committed, there is no abort. I like to have a plan B,

[/ QUOTE ]


what about anchouring at perkpolder? (always good in a blow as protected by sand banks) at high tide Paal, (drying) the basin at Hansweert, wall at walsorden ? as diversionary safe stops.

 

[tangomoon]

The wife is the mariner - she leads - follow - after discussion about the weather

 

[tangomoon]

Just read further on and find you are a s**** head and let the mariner, your wife as well for J H chrissake, fall overboard!

Then come out with how what a salutory lesson she has received from your ineptitude.

You're feeling sorry for yourself - thankfully she is having a rest in hospital - hope she stays a week

 

[terrywilson1234]

[ QUOTE ]
Just read further on and find you are a s**** head and let the mariner, your wife as well for J H chrissake, fall overboard!

[/ QUOTE ]

/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[tangomoon]

OK just re-read the post - this could have happened scenarios!

Still stand by original

Thing is that could happen any day - am not reading the post in depth as he seems to be looking for a good boy choccie drop

Bet he's another one ps on the floor and the seat as well!


/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Black Sheep]

Well I'm one of those who, presented with the information, and asked what I would do, said that I would probably go for it. But I'm not sure I appreciate being described as "gung ho".

My reasoning being that I actually enjoy sailing, and do so for pleasure (even though it may be jolly uncomfortable at times). At least get going - if it all seems too much, abort at Hansweert. Even pootle through the canal and revisit Wemeldinge. My biggest doubt is that you're already late on the tide, and that matters. Consider stopping at Hansweert to wait the evening tide. (Yes - night sailing. I enjoy it, even in busy estuaries).

But you were the skipper; I'm sure your decision was the right one for you, under all of the circumstances.

 

[andymcp]

You made a call and are here to tell the tale, as is your wife, and the boat is still in one piece with all 3 of you willing and able to go out in future. Doesn't mean it was the call I would have made, but it doesn't sound like it was the wrong call in any way.

 

[kingfisher]

Again, there is no wrong/right decision in this case IMHO. And I am certainly not looking for the panels approval: I take my decision as skipper and I really don't let others' opinion influence that. And god only knows how many times I should have departed. I was just curious as to how you guys would tackle the dilemma.

It is maybe a bit relative, like speeding. No matter how fast you drive, everybody who passes you is an inconsiderate moron, and everybody who holds you up is a granny. So anybody who stays when you leave is a sissy, anybody who sails out when you shelter is a mindless risk seeker.

[perkpolder? (always good in a blow as protected by sand banks) at high tide Paal, (drying) the basin at Hansweert, wall at walsorden ?]
Perkpolder: it was low water spring. So I would have been passed Perkpolder before I could enter there.
Paal is drying, I have 1m7 draught, so would only offer temporary shelter (hot soup and such). Afterwards it would mean going back to Terneuzen
Hansweert: yep, I missed that one. Could have been an option: at Hansweert re-evaluate the situation, stay overnight at the lock and continue the next day (weather for sunday was fine).

Walsoorden: same as Paal and Perkpolder, I actually haven't entered those ports yet (I've only been sailing on the Westerschelde for 10 years :shame: ). I wouldn't want to try a new port in those conditions.

 

[Heckler]

What a strange person you are. Dont read the post properly then when you make a twat of yourself start attacking the poster, WTF has pissing got to do with it?
Stu

 

[Marmalade]

No argument with your conclusion... my first rule is:

don't scare the crew

otherwise I'll be joining too many people I know who sail single handed

 

[tangomoon]

V good point!

I know two who have done just that with their crew, one was his wife (toook her out and she suffered bruising, next really cold day waves 3 feet high in the anchorage, she was soaked etc. the other, she's a bit too up and go for most.

I had often wondered why the lone sailors were inclined to be a grumpy, self-confident set of...

 

[Salty]

From your post it was a yacht club dinner with an organised return trip. November sailing is always going to be cold and wet, so lesson for next year is return the boat earlier in the season or organise to do it with experienced crew not your wife. I would never have planned to do a November delivery with my wife - she's a bloody good sailor but hates the cold so I would just never have asked her. Yacht club dinner, yes, and then a nice warm drive home while I sailed back with friends. If at the last minute it was a lovely forecast, then invite her along, but its asking for trouble to be relying on her from the start.

In your circumstances I would have sent SWMBO back by train, taxi or whatever (or hitched her a ride on the biggest driest boat in the fleet) and borrowed a crew happier with the conditions from another yacht in the club - assuming the club a friendly one and happy to help out in such ways.

'Don't scare the crew' is certainly important, especially if she's only got a couple of seasons confidence behind her - SWMBOs who sail are to be encouraged. On the other hand, sailing in late October, the conditions were hardly unusual.

A bit worried about your comments about whether the boat is 'suitable' - if any question about that you shouldn't be out there at all. And your comment about SWMBO going over-board: you're cruising: there should be no circumstance where she was in a position to go over the side. "I have a knot in my stomach every time I leave port" - are you sure your boat/wife are the weakest link? As you say, this is a hobby - there's no way you should feel that fearful every time you go sailing. I think next year, just bring the boat back earlier.