"What Now Skip?" is just getting worse

[jfm]

\"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

Hugo, you really need to stop these. They're just embarrassing. In the latest one, there is a twin engine boat that cannot make a straight course on one engine and a bit of rudder. I've never been on such a boat. Has anyone? The Princess in the pic wouldn't perform that way.

But worse still, it's the starboard drive that has failed, yet the boat is steering to port. Eh? How does that happen?

Just end the whole series Hugo!

[ QUOTE ]

You are weighing anchor after lunch in a pretty cove. So far it has been fine and sunny but in accordance with the forecast the onshore wind in now picking up and the sky is clouding over. Wind and rain are on the way. No problem though, as the trip back home should only take about 45 minutes. But when you put the engines into ahead the boat swings so firmly to port that you can't stop it, even with the helm hard over to starboard.

The tachos show that both engines are running, so it's not an engine failure. What else could the problem be? If the starboard shaft isn't turning with the gear lever in ahead what would you then do? And assuming you are stuck with no drive on the starboard side, what would your subsequent actions be? In effect, what now, skip?


[/ QUOTE ]

 

[ValleyForge]

Re: \"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

Chuck the anchor out again, row ashore, go to the nearest pub & mutter bl**dy boats whilst downing a few jars......

 

[Kipper]

Re: \"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

I couldnt have put it better. Stuff it get Pixxed

/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Gludy]

Re: \"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

It is getting a bit silly.

However what is the actual problem?

Its a short run back, so proceed back on one engine - stick on autopilot and maybe take an extra half hour or so ........

As reagrds the rain - turn on the windscreen wipers.

As regards the wind - the ride back is going to be bumpy ...... so what?

 

[Remmington]

Re: \"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

Call Seastart

 

[fireball]

Re: \"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

[ QUOTE ]
However what is the actual problem?

[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is something that wouldn't materialise with the defects that have been reported ....

 

[ValleyForge]

Re: \"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

Ah, got it, this is what happend to 'Bismark', after the Swordfish from 'Victorious' torpedoed the stern & jammed her rudders. No way could the skipper, Lutjens (?) get her to steam in a straight line to safety despite juggling engines, drogues & trying to blast off the offending bits.

Thus history holds the answer.

 

[Gludy]

Re: \"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

I totally agree - I see no real problem.
I have been down to one engine a few times - been in heavy seas with it - in a f7 in the Bristol Channel and still made it to port OK.

On my first boat I had one engine down and one limited in revs and still made it OK.

Maybe I missed those torpedoes sent to finish me off!

 

[hlb]

Re: \"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

Um' well my boat only just goes in a straight line on one engine. Because the rudder movement was reduced, cos the auto pilot ram kept coming out of it's socket. So I drop one trim tab, and that improves things. Boat does tent to slure round though when stopping.

Is that the answer they wanted??

 

[fireball]

Re: \"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

I dunno ... but we've had a succession of ill thought out scenarios, at least one of which has been materially adjusted post publication ...

At least the scenarios should be thought through before publishing!! After all, they know what a picky lot we are!!!

 

[blueglass]

Re: \"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

also agree. we often use only one engine by choice, bit of corrective rudder and away you go - no problem.

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Re: \"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

Its the same problem with all editorial stuff. You begin to notice that if you get the same magazine year after year, then the same articles will come around for a second or third time...or maybe more!

The last problem of this nature was raised by tcm - and I had the answer bang on first time - a sea monster, better known in Biblical terms as "Leviathan"! Now given that these creatures only inhabit the South coast (we get Dragons in North Wales) my guess would be that Leviathan had in some way attached itself to the stern of the boat so causing it to slew to port.

Its quite common down south and the cure really is simple. You need to hook the creatures snout and attach said gaff hook to the anchor windlass and wind it forward. This can then cure two problems:

1) The slew to port (or starboard)
2) The increase in red diesel costs are also mitigated because you have harnessed a rather large creature to tow you along - your rudders will work just fine!

Now I distinctly remember pointing all this out to tcm and hence the editors of IPC, but did they take a blind bit of notice? Did they heckers like!

Whats the betting that I'm back here in a years time offering the same erudite advice that falls on deaf ears (or blind eyes for that matter).

 

[MaltaBob]

Re: \"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

One will do fine! Even in bad sea's you'll just carry on with slight adjustments. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[DAKA]

Re: \"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

I missed the whole point, only half read it but assumed as the boat had swung so violently to port the pi@@ed up clot had forgotten to lift the anchor up or neglected to notice that 6 forum members were still rafted on the port side sleeping the BBQ off /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

As to one engine and poor sea state my crew would welcome the opportunity to return at a sedate 10 knts instead of hammering through on the plane.


We too often cruise the harbour on one engine with no steering issues.

 

[Gludy]

Re: \"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

Many delivery skippers run one one engine as do many boats on a slow cruise - so its a perfectly normal thing to do.

 

[TonyJones]

Re: \"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

As the writer of the last half dozen WNS I'm naturally sorry to hear that some people don't like them. Actually, quite a lot of thought goes into the scenarios, but perhaps we have now exhausted the genre. After all, there are only so many difficult situations motor boats can get into. Coming up with realistic scenarios has been increasingly difficult.

Actually, some weeks ago I asked if any forum readers would like to provide scenarios based on either their actual experiences, or theoretical situations. No one replied.

As regards the current one, I admit to having mistakenly said 'starboard shaft' when I meant port. Doh.

However, as an ex-aviator and flight safety consultant, I'm interested to see lots of people making assumptions about the problem. Many missed the fact that a 'hard over' steering failure would produce the same initial symptoms and that having re-anchored, deciding which it was would be the first job.

And whereas most planing motor boats WILL steer reasonably on one engine, perhaps this one wouldn't? (The heading shot is n not intended to indicate the exact make and type of boat. Perhaps that should have been made clearer). I have owned a boat that could only be held straight on one engine above a certain speed. From a standing start it would take about 90 degrees of turn before the single rudder became effective. That required about 100yds of sea room.

WNS was intended to provoke thought about seamanship generally - not just about what people would do with their own boats in a given situation. I would suggest that a person who dismisses a problem because it wouldn't be a big deal on their own particular craft has missed the point of the exercise. I was hoping we would get some more responses along the line of 'If A, then B, but if C then D' responses.

However, I'm sure Hugo will take the above comments into account and make a decision on the continuation of the series - or not. NP either way for me.

 

[hlb]

Re: \"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

Perfectly agree on, some boats wont go in a straight line on one engine. Mine does as you discribe.

but theres been a major gaff in every WNS I've seen so far. Maybe deeds thinking out more.

 

[fireball]

Re: \"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

[ QUOTE ]
WNS was intended to provoke thought about seamanship generally - not just about what people would do with their own boats in a given situation. I would suggest that a person who dismisses a problem because it wouldn't be a big deal on their own particular craft has missed the point of the exercise. I was hoping we would get some more responses along the line of 'If A, then B, but if C then D' responses.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope your not too offended by the negative comments - but there have been a number of obvious mistakes - I know nobody is perfect, but it does help to get it right, the last one I commented on included an offshore wind creating a nasty chop ... which I still don't know of an area where this would be true .....
however, the main issue - as you have alluded to is that ppl will naturally assume the problem is on their vessel in their home waters - if the problem happened on charter craft then a swift call to the owners is normally at the top of the troubleshooting list!! The less detail you put in there to paint the picture of what is going on the more assumptions have to be made ...

You probably have exhausted the own boat problems - how about a series on how you would assist another vessel in various situations ... ?

 

[Gludy]

Re: \"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

[ QUOTE ]
how about a series on how you would assist another vessel in various situations ... ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats a great idea.

There are a number of real world situations about helping others in distress that are not straightforward and are interesting. I hope the idea is taken up.

In the latest situation we are told it will soon rain and get more windy but are not told how windy ...... I found it all vague and many assumptions had to be made.

 

[TonyJones]

Re: \"What Now Skip?\" is just getting worse

Fireball,
Thanks for your very helpful comments. I took over this series after it had been running for some time and whoever said that the scenario used to change between published on the web and solution appearing in the next issue is right. Hopefully that will have happened less recently.

IMHO the thing that's missing is a proper brief as to what WNS is hoping to achieve. That should have been stated at the beginning and maybe posted as a sticky on this forum. It's a bit late now but what we were hoping for was a chronological account of thought processes and actions - the 'If A, then B' thing.

One of the recurrent criticisms of WNS has been lack of precise information. The trouble is, if the parameters are spelled out too closely, that more or less delivers the solution as in a certain boat in a specific situation there are limited alternatives.

Regarding your comments about an offshore wind not kicking up a nasty chop, I have to - with the greatest respect - disagree. Assuming you are referring to the recent Crossing the Bar scenario), having an offshore wing against an incoming tide can certainly make conditions in a narrow entry channel very nasty. Ask anyone who has entered Chichester harbour in those conditions close to low water!