What more would you want in a windlass/anchor roller setup?

[GHA]

This mornings fun will be jigsaw out a hole in some 6mm stainless plate which will be the new windlass base to get welded onto the deck - with some added bits to follow..

So, thoughts so far..

• some flat bar welded on edge to divert the worst of any water over the hawse pipe instead of down it.
• bit of flat bar on edge welded to the deck beefed up a bit with a slot to act as a chain stopper, also will act as a bracket to fit a log shank eyebolt with some dyneema/chain grab to allow the hook to get secured offshore and allow the chain to get taken off & hawse pipe sealed.
• Some fixing points aft of the capstan for little pulleys to act as fairleads so the capstan can be used as a crane with a continuous loop of dyneema back to the cockpit - jury rigged that already - works a treat.
• some stainless guides to stop the chain chipping the paint on the inside of the mild steel roller cheek plates.
• Some attachment points to attach any snatch block fairleads needed for a snubber.

Can't think of anything more, but always worth an ask - what would you really like as part of the mechanical side of your windlass/roller set up?

 

[Neeves]

It would be easier with a, some, sketches.

Jonathan

 

[lw395]

For chain, it mostly just needs to be strong enough and protect everything else from the chain.
The elimination of chafe when using rope can be more subtle.

Consideration of using swinging moorings without taking the anchor off would be nice sometimes.

 

[noelex]

• some flat bar welded on edge to divert the worst of any water over the hawse pipe instead of down it.
• bit of flat bar on edge welded to the deck beefed up a bit with a slot to act as a chain stopper, also will act as a bracket to fit a log shank eyebolt with some dyneema/chain grab to allow the hook to get secured offshore and allow the chain to get taken off & hawse pipe sealed.
• Some fixing points aft of the capstan for little pulleys to act as fairleads so the capstan can be used as a crane with a continuous loop of dyneema back to the cockpit - jury rigged that already - works a treat.
• some stainless guides to stop the chain chipping the paint on the inside of the mild steel roller cheek plates.
• Some attachment points to attach any snatch block fairleads needed for a snubber.

These are all great ideas.

I particularly like the extra fixing and attachment points. These are often forgotten. We added quite a few to the deck of our new boat. Some were for a specific purpose, but we added a few general ones as well. They have all been useful.

The only extra I would consider is attachment for jack lines. These are better centrally located rather than along the side decks and a dedicated attachment point to the rear of the windlass is often helpful.

This is a photo of one of our typical attachment points. By welding these onto the deck there is no chance of leaks or dissimilar metal problems (for those with an aluminium boat).

 

[GHA]

These are all great ideas.

I particularly like the extra fixing and attachment points. These are often forgotten. We added quite a few to the deck of our new boat. Some were for a specific purpose, but we added a few general ones as well. They have all been useful.

The only extra I would consider is attachment for jack lines. These are better centrally located rather than along the side decks and a dedicated attachment point to the rear of the windlass is often helpful.

This is a photo of one of our typical attachment points. By welding these onto the deck there is no chance of leaks or dissimilar metal problems (for those with an aluminium boat).

Nice weld

Attachment points is one thing that will never be in short supply again The local stainless stockholder also does stainless chain, so every trip means picking up a handful of cut half chain links from the floor to weld anywhere and everywhere, can't have too many

Jack lines is another thing that will get some attention down the line.

First stab at the chain stopper >>

 

[Kukri]

A really good way of weatherproofing the hawsepipe. Or rather, two ways. One with the anchor shackled on and one with it stowed below. I’d be thinking of closed cell foam with a sewn canvas cover and eyebolts.

I am an enthusiast for large diameter hard plastic rollers in the fairleads with a square groove to accept the vertical links in the chain.

I’d make the chain stopper the type with two enclosed springs to act as a shock absorber and, depending on the size of the boat, there’s a good argument for having an eccentric cam chain compressor as well.

 

[Neeves]

Two, slotted, rollers on an articulate arm (reduces the load on the windlass).

Jonathan

 

[NormanS]

My chain stopper is very similar to the drawing, except that the plate with the slot is angled back about 15-20°.

 

[noelex]

First stab at the chain stopper >>

The commercial chain stoppers act as a one way clutch, rather than just a device to hold the chain. The clutch feature is very useful.

I did have a go at making my own stopper with the clutch facility several years ago (mainly to remove the dissimilar metal). It was not a great success, and I went back to a commercial unit, but I was trying to fabricate this onboard with limited tools (that is my excuse and I am sticking to it ).

The addition of a devil’s claw is also very useful.

 

[noelex]

This is our chainstopper and devil’s claw. This was during construction hence the temporary lifelines etc.

 

[GHA]

This is our chainstopper and devil’s claw. This was during construction hence the temporary lifelines etc.

Ta, something to think about, might not be too hard to fab up something which could do both - normally live with a slot so the chain can just slot into it as a brake or act as a clutch with a different fitting. Another thing to lose

Though can't see needing a clutch unless the windlass packs in.

Like the last manual windlass before seeing the light with a powered one, leapfrogging rolling hitches on the chain with lines to mast halyard winches single handed with a bust engine in deep water does leave a bit of a desire for some options

 

[Roberto]

Fwiw, after a few occasions "at the limit", read permanent deformation in the chain, etc, I would never use (hence fit) a fixed chain lock, either swinging gate or welded fixed plate with slot, or anything that needs the windlass to be used again to unlock the chain and let it go free, or worse deform itself to permanently jam the chain.
I use a chain hook with a short piece of rope to shift the load from windlass to cleat and vice versa. It is a chain handling hook only of course, the normal anchoring snubber is 15-20m long and different construction.

 

[Neeves]

I use a chain hook with a short piece of rope to shift the load from windlass to cleat and vice versa. It is a chain handling hook only of course, the normal anchoring snubber is 15-20m long and different construction.

We do exactly the same but it does need a strong point nearby and in the right orientation. We use the same hook plus rope to secure the anchor at sea and as back up in case the snubber fails.

With slotted rollers you need to ensure they are a different size to the anchor shank (this can be an issue particularly with Ultra, Vulcan and Spade as each has a chamfered shank - most other anchor shanks will be bigger than the chain and hence the slot. - as if the anchor does come up inverted it will not self right, ever - and if you have oversized your anchor you might not be able to lift it.

Another addition to the bow roller assembly is something to stop the anchor 'rocking' when at sea. A couple of nylon pads, carefully located, work well. You just need to ensure they do not impede anchor retrieval.

Jonathan

For twin roller, in line, hinged bow rollers and chain stoppers - there are lots of examples. This is but one of many examples:

http://www.maxwellmarine.com/gen_accessories.php?bowrollers

 

[GHA]

Fwiw, after a few occasions "at the limit", read permanent deformation in the chain, etc, I would never use (hence fit) a fixed chain lock, either swinging gate or welded fixed plate with slot, or anything that needs the windlass to be used again to unlock the chain and let it go free, or worse deform itself to permanently jam the chain.
I use a chain hook with a short piece of rope to shift the load from windlass to cleat and vice versa. It is a chain handling hook only of course, the normal anchoring snubber is 15-20m long and different construction.

Normal day to day is a chain grab on some dyneema to take the load off the windlass, or snubber if any biggish winds are forecast. Though can't see how a chain hook would be different to a bracket fixed to the deck if you need the windlass to get it released - unless you cut the rope if it's that tight?
Never been in a situation like that. Forward at tickover to take some load off the chain so the snubber can come off sometimes maybe. Bracket fixed to the deck might come in handy for that if it's breezy, set it with your foot rather than fit the chain grab.

Bracket Mk2 with a little piece of tube welded to the slotted piece >>

 

[noelex]

That looks good.

I think once you have tried the convenience of the one way clutch mechanism, I don’t think you will ever use the fixed bottom pin position.

If the chain stopper works correctly with the pin in the top, the grip will be very strong. As more force is put on the chain the grip will just tighten, but the chain can be retrieved easily without releasing anything.

For those who have not used a chain stopper, they work for anchor chain just like a rope clutch that may be used on the running rigging. The rope can be pulled in with little extra resistance, but will immediately and automatically grip if the rope is pulled out.

The only caution I would add (remember this is from a failed chain stopper designer ) is that the geometry is quite critical so be prepared to modify the design slightly before it works perfectly. However, I am sure your metal working skills are much better than mine so fingers crossed that it works perfectly.

 

[Kukri]

Sorry to witter on but I earnestly recommend that the chain stopper be not bolted to the deck but mounted in a channel in which it can move perhaps 10 centimetres with either enclosed metal springs or enclosed rubber buffers on each side.

This used to be a standard fitting, and I remember it well, but I can’t find a picture of it!

This doesn’t replace a length of nylon or other methods of buffering the chain but it does add a line of last defence.

 

[GHA]

Sorry to witter on but I earnestly recommend that the chain stopper be not bolted to the deck but mounted in a channel in which it can move perhaps 10 centimetres with either enclosed metal springs or enclosed rubber buffers on each side.

This used to be a standard fitting, and I remember it well, but I can’t find a picture of it!

This doesn’t replace a length of nylon or other methods of buffering the chain but it does add a line of last defence.

Sorry but not a chance.
Much more complexity for no real benifit. Chain's 10mm so even in shallow water there'll be a snubber on long before the catinery stops being enough to dampen the dynamic loads. 10cm will do next to nothing anyway. Suspect the dyneema/chain grab will remain as the normal day to day method to take the load off the windlass anyway.

 

[GHA]

I think once you have tried the convenience of the one way clutch mechanism, I don’t think you will ever use the fixed bottom pin position.

When do you actually use it though?
I can think of a few anchorages when the old windlass was bust before fitting a new one that a chain clutch would come in handy pulling up the chain by hand in about a decade and a half.
Looking at the deck now with a rough mock up it's tempting not to bother but make just a low profile Vee instead of the clutch type.....

 

[noelex]

When do you actually use it though?

A chainstopper is ideal for breaking out the anchor. The windlass clutch can be left very loose, ensuring there is no danger of excessive force on the windlass itself. The chainstopper will stop the chain running out. Engine force or boat momentum can be used without any risk to the windlass. You can do the same with a short strop and chain hook but chain cannot be shortened without disconnecting and moving the chain hook. A chainstopper is much quicker. The one way clutch can be especially useful if the anchor is caught under debris or when singlehanding if you need to dash back to engine controls.

When the anchor has broken out, the windlass can raise the anchor without resetting or making any changes. The chainstopper also serves as a backup ensuring the chain will not run out if the chain jumps out of the windlass gypsy.

Of course if the windlass fails, the chain can be pulled in with whatever means (such as by hand or using the halyard winches) and the chain will automatically lock when released.

A chainstopper is certainly not essential, but it makes anchoring easier. When it is not needed or desirable, the chainstopper can be disconnected and removed from the system just by flicking the paw forward.

It is much quicker to connect or disconnect than short strop.

Your proposed fixed chainstopper will be much easier to construct, so I see the appeal, but the clutch mechanism is a very worthwhile feature.

 

[GHA]

A chainstopper is ideal for breaking out the anchor. The windlass clutch can be left very loose, ensuring there is no danger of excessive force on the windlass itself. The chainstopper will stop the chain running out. Engine force or boat momentum can be used without any risk to the windlass. You can do the same with a short strop and chain hook but chain cannot be shortened without disconnecting and moving the chain hook. A chainstopper is much quicker.

Ah, understand. Ta
Won't really work on my windlass/roller though, too much of an angle for the chain to go down to the deck and back up to the top or the roller, would be a horrific grinding & crunching noise through the boat