what liveaboard boat?

[oceanventure2]

i am thinking of leaving the rat race for a while and heading off sailing...
i have been around boats all my life and bought a beneteau first 211 in 04 and sold it a year later .. ( needed the cash to buy a bigger house)
anyways i have been in very rough weather in the first 211 without any problems, and found it to be a very solid fast boat, and enjoyed it a lot,.,


anyways was thinking of taking time off work and heading off sailing for a while, was thinking of crossing the atlantic via the canaires but after researching, found out that a lot of people never make the trip back... as its more difficult... so would prob most likely stay on the east side of atlantic

in terms of boat, i am still researching into what would be best , im kinda thinking of not going for a fiberglass hull but the jurys still out on that issue...

i have read about others who have sailed down to the canaries from scotland in a 28footer... fiberglass hull, that made me think about, i was kinda thinking of going for a beneteau first 27.7 with inboard diesel engine, lifting keel, so easy to get into shallow waters,, it most likely will just be myself , so i would imagine i would have more than enough space in the 27.7 beneteau.. or would i... or would it be better to go for the first 31.7

in terms of boat, what would you recommend??
in terms of certification what would be required?
do you need certification for insurance?

do many people sail down there without any certifications/ yacht master etc...

thanks in advance for info

 

[Jonny_H]

Welcome to the forum!

What are your reasons for not wanting a fibreglass hull?

In terms of size, it depends on preferance and budget - there is an excellent book ( here ) which tells the story of an atlantic circuit in a 20foot boat and subsequently a 27footer - so the boats you suggest certaintly aren't too small.

Have you considered other boats beside Beneteau's - there are lots of excellent boats out there, it depends on budget and requirements (type of keel, type of accomodation, size, rig etc) - if you give some more details you'll get lots of good advice on here.

There is no problem (as far as I'm aware with sailing with certification - insurance companies just ask for experience - although you will get a discount with a YM certificate usually). There are quite a few threads on the forum about what certificates you need - perform a search on 'certificates' or 'qualifications' and you'll get lots of bedtime reading /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Jonny

 

[Kilter]

[ QUOTE ]
there is an excellent book ( here )

[/ QUOTE ]
I met the author while he was out in the Caribbean, nice chap. I was also doing an Atlantic circuit, my boat at that time was a Tradewind 33. Not a fast boat but comfortable, rock solid and really looked after us in bad weather.

 

[oceanventure2]

suppose the main reason i was thinking of not going for a fiberglass hull is incase of a collision with floating debris.. efor example, striking a submerged container, at night, etc etc

i would like a boat thats easily handled single handed, and also comfortable. something that wont give me any trouble, and i suppose a bow thruster would be a must have?

but im open to suggestions..

am i mad to go with a new boat?

 

[Koeketiene]

[ QUOTE ]

am i mad to go with a new boat?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes

 

[TiggerToo]

what do you want a bow-thruster for? It seems to me the last thing you need on a voyage of the kind you are talking about

 

[Jonny_H]

Collision is always a concern - but around 85% of boats doing an atlantic circuit will be GRP - its the norm. Yes, there is a risk of damage, but there is with any material. All materials have their downsides, steel = rust, concrete = heavy/can be poorly made etc.

If you look at the ARC entry list you will find almost all are GRP. If you choose another hull type then re-sale tends to be harder.

In terms of the boat:

* Easily handled depends on the rig more than the boat - I've seen 40 footers that would be easier to handle than 28 footers. You need to make sure all the lines are led aft to the cockpit and there is a good autopilot / windvane steering system.

* Comfortable - where? Boats that are comfortable in habour may not be at sea, and vice verse. Then, where will you spend more time (realistically in habour - but you still need comfort at sea!)

*Won't give any trouble - something I have been told (I have just bought my boat and am in the process of preparing for the big 'off' in 18 months time) is that long distance cruising is 'fixing boats in exotic places' - you will not be able to buy a boat that doesn't need fixing - even brand new Najad's and Hallberg Rassey's need work doing to them. This is where your pre-cruise preparation pays dividene.

*Bow thruster - must have on 30ft?? Mine is 37 and doesn't have one, sailied on a 45 without one - no problem. I haven't seen many below 35ft with a bow thruster. Handling shouldn't be an issue (especially if you avoid old long keel boats) - importantly understand your prop kick and you'll be fine.

* New boat - your choice. New boats aren't problem free (my parent's spent 18 months sorting teething problems on a new Moody, and several 'new' boats on the ARC have had serious problems). Tried and trusted can be a great comfort! With a brand new boat you need to budget for a lot of kit - not much will come as standard, and you could add another £15k easily for kit (radios, GPS, Radar, SSB, Self Steering, Fenders, Warps, dinghy, outboard, liferaft, flares, etc) - these are things most second hand boats would have as standard. That said, with a second hand boat you get other issues (do the water pumps need replacing - has the engine been serviced etc). Also, you avoid depreciation by buying second hand.

I went through all this when buying mine. I looked for a production boat around 5 - 10 years old (dufour, dehler, jenneau etc) - in the end I settled on a 10 year old Colvic Countess - a far cry from what I set out looking for, but (we feel) ideal for what we want.

If your thinking around the 30ft mark, there are lots of choices, try a search on Yachtworld.com and see what it brings up - Contessa 32? Westerly Tempest? Moody 31?

All depends on budget .... you could spend £10k or £100k or more!

At the end of the day the choice is yours, there will be lots of opinions (both good and bad) on any boat you choose - you just need to be happy with it yourself. Personally I would steer away from the mass produced boats which are more geared towards weekend sailing in the med than crossing oceans (bavaria's etc) and more towards a solid offshore boat, (moody, westerly etc).

Hope this helps - my best advice is to traul Yachtworld.com, ask on here for advice on any potential boats you find, and look on as many as possible. Our boat search took 6 months and we looked at hundred's online, and about 40 actual boats before finding the right one for you!

Jonny

 

[steviewhitts]

I've got a First 285 and spent lots of time drooling over the 31.7 but not sure either would be my first choice for longer term living or cruising. Great boats for going quite quickly from A to B in reasonable comfort but quite skittish and a handful in a blow. I love my 285 for local cruising in the SW but have my mind on something entirely different for the longer term. Lots of good advice/suggestion on this forum - a bit of time spent searching the threads and absorbing the views of others who have been there/done that will be time well spent. I always think the planning and scheming will be one of the enjoyable bits - when I finally decide to do it!
Steve

 

[RupertW]

I agree with you, I owned a Beneteau First 30E a few years ago and found it an excellent cross channel boat in almost any weather - fast, responsive, great upwind etc. etc. BUT on a Biscay crossing we realised that its twitchiness was not ideal for long open sea passages.

Something slower and more stable makes sense, unless you become a convert to the dark side of multihulls and go faster but more stably. I'd rather cross oceans in a catamaran than a monohull anytime, and enjoy being at anchor more too.

 

[HoratioHB]

I'm buying new as when I did the figures of residual prices versus intial cost, new worked out better. More importantly I KNOW it hasn't hit the odd rock, had the engine thrashed, strained the rigging etc. And as its the biggest toy I will ever buy - it will be mine and mine only !! (totally illogical but I don't care) Yes I have to add some extras but most come with the boat nowadays up to and inclduing fenders, flares, warps, dinghy etc.

As to short handed sailing, SWMBO will be with me but I am not counting on too much sailing help and so am effectively planning to be able to handle her on my own (the boat that is) and I am going for 42 ft.

Why not make the fatal 'boatshow trip' as I did this summer and see what is on offer.

 

[Jonny_H]

We did the boatshow trip - walked around SIBS dreaming for a day looking on all the nice shiny boats. Then had a reality check and decided all the ones in budget were AWB's with no kit and not suitable, and all the suitable ones were way over budget.
So spent the next day visiting the various used shows around Southampton during SIBS - very worthwhile!!

I note your point about kit with some new boats, but it depends what you buy, Bav's are very cheap as they tend to have very little with them!

That said, we have around £8k to spend on our boat which has done extensive cruising already! In terms of boat history (hitting rocks, thrashing engine etc), thats why you pay £500 for a good surveyor - the report is worth its weight in gold. We found an excellent surveyor who found literally every little mark on the boat (even down to a small scratch on an instrument display!)

I would agree with the above in terms of choice - what is right for weekends and odd holidays will not be right for living aboard - we nearly made this fatal mistake ourselves! The trouble is until you have done it, you don't know what you need in the way of a boat - that is why this forum is great - you get to speak to the people who have done and it and know what you really do and don't need.

Jonny

 

[HoratioHB]

[ QUOTE ]

That said, we have around £8k to spend on our boat which has done extensive cruising already! In terms of boat history (hitting rocks, thrashing engine etc), thats why you pay £500 for a good surveyor - the report is worth its weight in gold. We found an excellent surveyor who found literally every little mark on the boat (even down to a small scratch on an instrument display!)

Jonny

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree a good surveyor will see most but he cannot tell if a keel bolt is fatigued or an engine has been badly treated. The boat we chartered this summer had a duff engine hours counter so goodness knows what the owner will think his engine has done when he gets it back (we did report it to the chater company).

It may cost more but to my mind the 'peace of mind' and the warranty are worth it.

 

[Jonny_H]

I see exactly where you come from - I had the same doubts. Most surveyors can do an oil sample analysis which is pretty impressive and can tell a lot about the engine.

The stance we ended up with was that for our budget we would buy a 35ft new Bavaria which wouldn't do the job we wanted, or we could buy a good range of second hand boats which were all upto the job (ie Moody 376, Westerly Oceanquest, Oyster Heritage, Westerly Regatta 370 and the one we ended up with /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif ).

If you are in the position of being able to afford a new boat which meets the criteria you lay down then I would agree that this is a good choice, but most have to choose between a new AWB and a second hand 'bluewater cruiser' - its upto the buyer then ....

 

[poter]

Its an interesting argument - New V Secondhand.
For what its worth ... We started with a small boat some seasons ago to get the idea of living onboard, unfortunately our next boat a Moody 30 got very badly damaged after slipping at anchor in the Exe. Which brings us to our Dufour 35. She is old but in very good nick. As we were able to get her at a very reasonable price I was left with a bit more of the budget to spend on goodies & bits.

I wont go into too much depth in what I feel is esential for cruising, suffice to say that safety & survival are a priority along with decent sails, a good solid reliable engine, comfortable sleeping quarters, a top class galley & a sensible drinks cabinet with Laphroige. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

There will be many who want a boat thats complete shiny & new, & can make it there own, I tend to go the other way and enjoy the satisfaction of knowing every system, nut & bolt, also the enjoyment of taking out all the old crap & replacing it with a new bit. To me it makes the boat more personal & more importantly I can usually find the elusive hidden problem more quickly.

But as i say its horses for..... what ever way you go.....DO IT!!!

enjoy

fair winds. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

poter. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[oceanventure2]

my situation is this. i have read about many people selling their houses and living aboard. seems like jumping off a cliff, big shock to the system...
if i sell my house, i will have 200,000 profit from the sale.
being houseless is a scary thought, considering im in my very early thirites. also my job doesent offer any leave of absence, or career break.... so id have to resign..

also i dont have any ties, and am single. i have always wanted to do a long voyage, since a kid.... if i am going to do this it will most likely be single handed or if i can get some crew for the long passages....

i was looking at the first 27.7 by beneteau but havent seen one in the flesh yet ( im going to see my local dealer tomorrow sat) to see what the space inside is like...

am i gone totally mad even considering this? or are there many other people like me considering a major life change like this?


also do people who make this decision live on the boat all year round?

 

[Bajansailor]

The world is your oyster old chap - make the most of the situation you are in and go for it!

You could sell the house, buy a little flat somewhere so that you stay on the property ladder, buy the boat which is most suitable for your needs, get to know her, move on board when you are confident that you are ready to do so, rent out the flat to provide some income, and take off!

Re the best boat for you - compile a list of the requirements this boat will have to be capable of - the more criteria you add to the list, the more you will narrow down your choice of vessel until theoretically, you know what your dream ship is.

Then the next day you will pass by your local boat yard, and see a vessel for sale which never made it on to your list, but with whom you fall for immediately!

Such is life.....

The ideal dream boat is IMHO the boat that comes along at the right time, in the right circumstances, and at the right price - and you will know it when you meet her! For sure.

 

[Jonny_H]

100% agree - the boat you are looking for will take you by surprise, but you'll know she's the one the second you step foot on her (we did!)

Regards taking the big leap in your early 30's - I don't see why not. We are mid 20's and doing it - we are renting out the house, my wife is leaving work, I'm taking an 18 month leave of absence and we're sailing to Australia where we hope to set up a new life (my work can transfer me out there which is nice, but we would go regardless). Early 30's is not too young at all - plenty of people choose to go off earlier in life, the hard thing about this is knowing you will most likely end up back at work at some point in the future /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Go for it - you only live once and you'll regret it if you don't.

Jonny

 

[KellysEye]

If you are looking for a cruising boat bear in mind that most serious issues at sea are caused by mast/rigging failure, keel bolts working loose (water ingress) and rudder failure (often after hitting something).

Thus go for straight spreaders (not swept back), a minimum of full rudder skeg (preferably rudder hung off keel) and encapsulated keel. Finding boats like that is not easy.

On the subject of GRP, the old boats are the one's to go for, they often have 5 inch thick hulls.

 

[Bajansailor]

For additional inspiration (as if you need it!), go to www.setsail.com, and look up the voyage logs of Dave and Jaja Martin - Dave sailed his little Cal 25 'Direction' singlehanded (in his early 20's) from Florida to Europe, where he met Jaja, and they subsequently went off round the world on Direction having lots of amazing adventures (and two kids....) along the way!

 

[jonic]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are looking for a cruising boat bear in mind that most serious issues at sea are caused by mast/rigging failure, keel bolts working loose (water ingress) and rudder failure (often after hitting something).

Very very true. Be careful with mass produced charter boats, they are designed for that market. Very different from long term liveaboard. Talk to people that have actually been out there when it cut up rough or they hit that un-charted reef.
Sustained ocean swells can put a lot of strain on rudders and stocks that are fine on charter style boats but can suffer with prolonged stress.
You get what you pay for and they don't build em like they used to. People have crossed oceans in little more than bath tubs so anything will "do it" but it is all by degrees.