What Knot?

[Rich_F]

Any advice on what sort of knot I should use?

I want to add a loop into the middle of a line that is normally under tension (though it won't be under tension when the loop is created). The knot mustn't collapse due to pulling on either/both of the free ends, or on the loop.

The obvious approach would be to take a bight and tie an overhand knot in it, but I'm sure that there must be a more seamanlike option.

Educate me!

Rich

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[ex-Gladys]

You could tie a bowline with the whole lot? Two loops for the price of one then....

<hr width=100% size=1>Larry Botheras

Anderson 26 "Amber"

 

[Guest]

Quickest way is to take a bight and create a 'fig. of eight' knot ... with the bight exiting giving the loop. This way you can realease it reasonably easily.

To create a real hard bight in mid length - but then you will have to use a spike or similar to open it up again - is the bowline - again created with a large bight of line.

There are other specialist knots .... but any seaman will tell you a handful of knots done well will suffice for all but special occasions ...


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Posts personal opinions and maybe controversial

 

[Guest]

A bowline on the bight gives 2 loops - the DIY version of the lifting chair .....
A bowline created in the bight gives one loop.

There is the old trick of throwing a rope to a newbie - MN college ! - and say - create a lbowline on the bight ........ quite funny the variations you see !!


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Posts personal opinions and maybe controversial

 

[Rich_F]

Yep, I guess so. I seem to recall that you can use that kind of approach for a makeshift bosun's chair, so it must be fairly reliable.

Another idea I had, if it was OK to cut the rope, would be to join the two halves with a pair of interlocking bowlines, then add a third leg with another interlocking bowline. The third leg would have a fourth bowline attached. Over-engineered, perhaps, but guaranteed to tolerate unbalanced pulls on any two of the legs.

Rich

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[Bladerunner]

figure of eight on the bight is, by far, the easiest option.

<hr width=100% size=1> Bladerunner - Hung like Einstein. Brains like a donkey

 

[jimi]

I'd go for the double fig of 8 knot, used it all the time when climbing. Just make sure its tied OK. Normal to tie using the doubled rope leaving a loop, if required it can be tied on a fixed object by threading it through itself as in the animation below.

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[Rich_F]

Jimi,

That was a very helpful response. Is anything wrong?

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Rich

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[cliff]

Could be male menopause , either that or it is just that time of the month. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[pelissima]

Double fig of 8 is just fine.
An alternative could be the ’cannon (?) knot’

You hold loop No 1 upwards, open ended with your left hand and loop No2 with right hand upwards too.
Loop No 3 hanging down in between.
Now u pass loop No 2 through loop No1, and loop No3 through loop No 2. Finish.
Quick and easy and holds both directions, undone like bowline knot.
Fair winds to all

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[pampas]

sometimes called the Butterfly and if Im correct tis used by climbers as it can be tied with one hand.

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[Rich_F]

Cannon knot sounds interesting. Presumably there are some twists in the rope. Any idea which way?

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[NigeCh]

NOT a figure of 8 - It jams under load

and can't be undone.

The simplest non-jamming on the bight knot with a loop is the butterfly loop. Here's a link to show how to form it in the middle of a line:

http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/A/Alpine-butterfly-knot.htm

Other non-jamming knots which everyone should know to tie are the side-laid bowline* (aka Eskimo or Panama), rolling hitch, triple twist truckers hitch, and the topsail sheet bend.

* The standard 'as taught' bowline where the rabbit runs round in and out of holes and round trees etc as taught by the boy scouts has no place on a boat. It will jam. It's a USELESS knot.

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[NigeCh]

Didn\'t see you post till after I\'d posted

Yes, the butterfly loop is one of the basic knots. It's surprising how many people use figure of eight knots for the wrong purpose.


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[peterb]

Re: NOT a figure of 8 - It jams under load

Interesting, Nige. I've heard you say before that bowlines can jam. I've used them many times, and watched other people use them, and if properly tied I've never found them to jam.

BUT.........

If you're one of those people that always tie bowlines with the "flick of the wrist" method, sometimes called the "one-handed" method and usually used for tying bowlines round yourself, and if you try to use the same method for tying the knot with the loop away from you and the standing end towards you, then you may end up with a knot that looks almost identical to the bowline but isn't, and which will jam very solidly. Twice now I've come across roller reefing genoas that have been put on at the beginning of the season, then at the end of the season have sheets which are virtually immovable (well, it took me over an hour with a spike). As far as I can see, the knot is just as strong as a bowline, and I've even wondered whether it might not be more suitable for genoa sheets because it won't come undone if the sheets flog. But it isn't a bowline. Are you quite sure that the "bowline" that you've found to jam is really a bowline?

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[Peppermint]

Now I don't know what you wish to do with the loop but the knot will greatly reduce the strength of the rope for it's primary role and create a high wear area around the knot. Is this for a long term application?

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[starboard]

Hi Rich,
Would go for the figure of 8, perfect in this situation, easy to tie and easy to undo again after a load....if you have a problem tieing it go to "Corfe castle Pottery", I hear there you will find a "Saint" that is a dab hand at knot tyeing.

p.s. the forecast up here not good for my days off!!!!

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[starboard]

Re: NOT a figure of 8 - It jams under load

Re: NOT a figure of 8 - It jams under load.......must have been some load, never in all my climbing nor sailing days have seen that!!!!!




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[whisper]

Thanks Jimi, at last I understand how to tie it. Excellent graphics - can you now do a similar trick for my memory ?/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[jimi]

Re: NOT a figure of 8 - It jams under load

for once Nigelch is talking bollox I've put Fig8s under significant load and never once been unable to undo 'em

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