What kind of boat is this?

[Bru]

Or this - but you better have a large cheque book - Sirius 35 DS

Top of my shopping list ... if I ever win the lottery!

Much as I prefer traditional styling, the Sirius designs are just so clever and ideal for a cruising couple (and the company owner / chief designer is a really nice chap too)

 

[srm]

Their diesel engine drives them to weather remarkably well and much in the same manner as employed by most other "real cruising sail boats"

In a fairly long sailing career, both leisure and professional, there have been times when I have not had the luxury of a diesel to drive me to weather, or anywhere else for that matter. While in no way a sailing 'purist' I prefer to have a boat that is able to make a passage and berth under sail as this gives two independent means of propulsion.

 

[johnalison]

Not everything to do with the choice of boat involves the owner’s own wishes. Wives, children, dogs, infirmity, and drying moorings can also be dominant factors. I have always had a fin-keeled boat that would go to windward happily, but I don’t patronise those for who it is either not a priority or for some reason unavailable. On rare occasions I have even been a bit envious, as when we motored through the Netherlands with a Nauticat 33. While we froze and got wet, they emerged at the next town in dressing gown and slippers.

 

[Laminar Flow]

In a fairly long sailing career, both leisure and professional, there have been times when I have not had the luxury of a diesel to drive me to weather, or anywhere else for that matter. While in no way a sailing 'purist' I prefer to have a boat that is able to make a passage and berth under sail as this gives two independent means of propulsion.

To be sure, they do go to weather, just not as enthusiastically as some slippery and narrow fin job. They would and can go to windward a lot better if someone had the mercy to give poor things a bit more sail.
We did on ours and in around 10kts of true wind our boat's VGM to weather will be 4.2kts. In the a fore mentioned Classic Boat article, the featured Fisher 34 managed to give a reasonable accounting of herself as well. At a SA/D of around 12.5 - 13, sail can be considered an independent means of propulsion.

 

[Skylark]

Or this - but you better have a large cheque book - Sirius 35 DS

There was one visiting Portavadie earlier this week. Nice looking in the flesh.

 

[Wansworth]

In the days of sail sans engine boats carried far more sail and reef Ed as required

 

[johnalison]

In the days of sail sans engine boats carried far more sail and reef Ed as required

I feel sorry for Ed.

 

[Laminar Flow]

In the days of sail sans engine boats carried far more sail and reef Ed as required

Not sure about Ed, other than that I need to get me one, for the reefing.

But you are right about SA on older Designs: I calculated SA/D according to Colin Archer's methodology for determining sail area on his yachts and you tend to end up in the low 20ies, which clearly puts them into a contemporary offshore racer category.
Give it a try: 100-125% of DWL squared (in metres) and let me know where you end up compared to your current rig.

We more than doubled the SA on our (nominally) 8.17 t Motorsailer, now with a SA/D of 17.8, and are still a little shy of of Archer's lower margin. At the upper end, and in spite of our weight, we would be at a SA/D of 24 (flat out racer).

I mentioned this phenomena on a German forum I take part in and it must have touched a nerve with a fellow who apparently sails a contemporary planing racer. "They only had that much sail because they had no engines back then," he retorted. You don't say, really? I think the race comittee needs to take a closer look at theis chap's light weather performance ...

 

[Wansworth]

David Hillyard designed and built before the war yachts with pleanty of sail but the later designs such as the 9 and 12 toners had much reduced sail and become more motor sailers

 

[DownWest]

No Iam sure with the choice ofthe righ naval architect a Scottish wheelhouse can bemarriedto a proper sailing hull

Not sure you will find any man of the cloth to preside over that coupling..

 

[Wansworth]

Not sure you will find any man of the cloth to preside over that coupling..

Check out Gang Warily

 

[srm]

No I preferencia the Scottish fishing boat type wheelhouse with access to the side decks by sliding doors………waiting on my lotto win?

Like the Northeaster 30 perhaps, also by the Fisher builders so a similar hull, but another a nice motorboat with sails for Scottish waters.
One here if you skip forward a bit:

There was a range of motor sailors built in wood by a Scottish yard, a Spey 35 here:

I spent some time doing seabed survey work on a 50ft version in the 70's. A nice comfortable boat but posibly from a different yard.

However, all the above have hulls derived from North Sea motor fishing boats.

As you say a wheelhouse design on a sailing hull would be good - perhaps the later Nauticats if you have the budget.

In 2008 I was looking for something along those lines and found a Trident marine Voyager 35 that suited my budget and was fitted out for offshore sailing with smaller deck house windows and a larger cutter rig using a bowsprit. The Voyager has the same hull as the Warrior and Challenger so proven sailing capability but with a deck house that provides a warm dry watch keeping cabin at sea. I was moored behind a standard Voyager 35 in Denmark and had difficulty convincing the owner that we had the same hull and deck as my boat is two or three tons heavier giving less freeboard and a very different rig further disguised with a stern gantry and Monitor windvane.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Not sure you will find any man of the cloth to preside over that coupling..

Well, we did, or rather the other way around: We married a proper sailing rig to a Scottish wheelhouse and have been living in sinful bliss ever since ...

 

[Wansworth]

Its possible toget away from the mfv type hull with flatter sections aft there is no need for a big engine as not fishing it must be possible to get a comfortable deck mounted wheelhouse with Capability to carry a good working sail area.Will look through my old yachting World Annuals whereI came acrossAmerican designs almost to the spec

 

[Laminar Flow]

The American Cabo Ricos have very flat aft sections with a semi-immersed transom, and a tall rig coupled with a good-sized wheelhouse. This enables higher than normal displacement speeds while still having the the opportunity of staying warm and dry.

Interestingly, the Watsons too have quite a flat run that quite often allows them too reach relative speeds of 1.5, providing they have sufficient power, are not overloaded and are floating on their DWL. Unfortunately, obesity is a common issue with the brand, brought on by well-meaning amateur outfitters wanting to make everything "extra" strong. Once the wide stern becomes too deeply immersed they tend to suck up a nasty quarter wake which takes care of any speed aspirations.
Under sail the standard models simply do not have enough SA to make good on their potential in any kind of weather that doesn't leave brown stains in the undies. A shame really, as they have abundant stability to carry more.

As far as visibility and sheer practicality goes, there is absolutely no comparison between a proper upstanding Scottish style wheelhouse and a raised deck salon pretending to be one. I have designed, built and sailed both.

 

[Wansworth]

The American Cabo Ricos have very flat aft sections with a semi-immersed transom, and a tall rig coupled with a good-sized wheelhouse. This enables higher than normal displacement speeds while still having the the opportunity of staying warm and dry.

Interestingly, the Watsons too have quite a flat run that quite often allows them too reach relative speeds of 1.5, providing they have sufficient power, are not overloaded and are floating on their DWL. Unfortunately, obesity is a common issue with the brand, brought on by well-meaning amateur outfitters wanting to make everything "extra" strong. Once the wide stern becomes too deeply immersed they tend to suck up a nasty quarter wake which takes care of any speed aspirations.
Under sail the standard models simply do not have enough SA to make good on their potential in any kind of weather that doesn't leave brown stains in the undies. A shame really, as they have abundant stability to carry more.

As far as visibility and sheer practicality goes, there is absolutely no comparison between a proper upstanding Scottish style wheelhouse and a raised deck salon pretending to be one. I have designed, built and sailed both.

So I was not wandering in the wilderness?

 

[Capt Popeye]

But it sails like a barn door to windward

Perhaps thats why its a Motor Sailer then ? it does not need to sail well, just sail when conditions are right for the Skipper ; Being a proper Motor Sailer it can easily go to all places required in Safety and Comfort , wheras a Sailer with an aux cannot !

 

[Tranona]

Its possible toget away from the mfv type hull with flatter sections aft there is no need for a big engine as not fishing it must be possible to get a comfortable deck mounted wheelhouse with Capability to carry a good working sail area.Will look through my old yachting World Annuals whereI came acrossAmerican designs almost to the spec

Yes. The late model Nauticat 331 has hard chines hidden under the rounded stern. The IP wheelhouse models also have more sailing orientated hulls if not quite the same north sea fishing boat look.

 

[Wansworth]

 

[Wansworth]

Above drawings show American motors aire and Gang. Warily