What is the origin of the phrase 'Running a tight ship?'

[John Day]

Running a Tight Ship

Just asking, someone in the office wants to know....

I was told that in the days of commercial sailing transport, a sailor could go down to the waterfront, seeking employment on a ship. If employed, he would know by the time the ship reached the harbour entrance what the trip would be like. A well maintained ship with tight rigging was quiet. This was a reflection of a firm, well organised captain, a well disiplined and hard working crew. The captain was respected. Conversley, a noisy ship was creaking and groaning, because it had loose rigging etc. It was not maintained. The captain on a noisy had various faults, did not control the crew and was not respected by the crew. Although the crew on the "Tight Ship" were always occupied maintaining it they were not unhappy. They did not have time for petty disputes to develop amongst crew members.
Leadership was one of the skills of our early explorers and those who followed. History has so many examples. Working conditions on a sailing ship would not be acceptable now but look at what they achieved. Yet they wet their napkins just like you and I did.

 

[Word Sleuth]

Well, it's been about 20 years since this thread was active. But it came up when I asked the origin of the term. You may well understand what is meant by the term. But the origin, like many phrases and words that we take for granted, has a more sickening origin. A quick Google search yielded this information:
"The phrase "tight ship" can be a reference to the Transatlantic Slave Trade. The term "tight ship" was used to describe how enslaved Africans were packed onto ships during the voyages, with some sources using it to refer to the inhumane and cramped conditions aboard slave ships. This term highlights the dehumanizing practices of the trade, where human beings were treated as cargo."
"Tight packing refers to the method used during the transatlantic slave trade to maximize the number of enslaved Africans transported on slave ships. This approach involved cramming as many individuals as possible into the ship's hold, often leading to overcrowded and inhumane conditions. By packing slaves tightly together, traders aimed to increase profit margins despite the significant health risks and mortality rates associated with such practices".
The more you know...

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Well, it's been about 20 years since this thread was active. But it came up when I asked the origin of the term. You may well understand what is meant by the term. But the origin, like many phrases and words that we take for granted, has a more sickening origin. A quick Google search yielded this information:
"The phrase "tight ship" can be a reference to the Transatlantic Slave Trade. The term "tight ship" was used to describe how enslaved Africans were packed onto ships during the voyages, with some sources using it to refer to the inhumane and cramped conditions aboard slave ships. This term highlights the dehumanizing practices of the trade, where human beings were treated as cargo."
"Tight packing refers to the method used during the transatlantic slave trade to maximize the number of enslaved Africans transported on slave ships. This approach involved cramming as many individuals as possible into the ship's hold, often leading to overcrowded and inhumane conditions. By packing slaves tightly together, traders aimed to increase profit margins despite the significant health risks and mortality rates associated with such practices".
The more you know...

And I am 100% sure that is rubbish.

 

[Fantasie 19]

I always understood it to refer to standing rigging.. in the days when captains would often put their hands in their own pockets to fund upgrades, a tight ship was one where the standing rigging was new and therefore tight, as opposed to one that had been on service for an age, or the captain was poorer, and so the standing rigging was worn, and therefore slack..

 

[Seastoke]

If you new Bouba, a tight ship , means he would charge you for a beer.

 

[Bouba]

If you new Bouba, a tight ship , means he would charge you for a beer.

I thought it was related to Churchill’s famous phrase...
"Don't talk to me about Naval Tradition.It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and the lash,"

 

[mjcoon]

Re: What is the origin of the phrase \'Running a tight ship?\'

Revenons a nos moutons - I just wonder how possible it is nowadays to run a tight ship when 'the queers rule OK' in both the Andrew and the Police. I remember seeing one Conduct Sheet which showed that the rating had picked up a 'Consequential Naval Penalty' for having committed the civil offence of Bu99ery 'in that he did carnally know XXX on Southsea Common c. 1948. I only came across one in the RN, who admitted homosexual experience - he was ostracised by his mess mates.

Then of course there's the late George Melly's Rum, Bum and Concertina www.goodreads.com/rum-bum-and-concertina

 

[mjcoon]

And I am 100% sure that is rubbish.

Even the arithmetic is wrong!

 

[KevinV]

Well, it's been about 20 years since this thread was active. But it came up when I asked the origin of the term. You may well understand what is meant by the term. But the origin, like many phrases and words that we take for granted, has a more sickening origin. A quick Google search yielded this information:
"The phrase "tight ship" can be a reference to the Transatlantic Slave Trade. The term "tight ship" was used to describe how enslaved Africans were packed onto ships during the voyages, with some sources using it to refer to the inhumane and cramped conditions aboard slave ships. This term highlights the dehumanizing practices of the trade, where human beings were treated as cargo."
"Tight packing refers to the method used during the transatlantic slave trade to maximize the number of enslaved Africans transported on slave ships. This approach involved cramming as many individuals as possible into the ship's hold, often leading to overcrowded and inhumane conditions. By packing slaves tightly together, traders aimed to increase profit margins despite the significant health risks and mortality rates associated with such practices".
The more you know...

I'd love to know which bit of Google you found that on, because I Googled it to check and found nothing of the sort.

"Tight" being short for water tight, or tight rigging, or tight discipline as explained by a few posts above make sense - they are positives, as is the expression.

Packing slaves too tightly on the other hand was just bad, greedy practice, leading to the loss of valuable cargo. Even in their day slave ships were looked down on by regular traders, there's no way any expression about them would have made it into modern language as a positive.

 

[DreadShips]

I see Google's infamous AI summary has struck again - put in any phrase you like, followed by the word "meaning" and it'll happily produce reams of the finest cobblers.

Anyway, everybody knows a tight ship is just a lightship where predictive text has done you dirty.

 

[johnalison]

I always assumed that it was just a simple metaphor derived from a general idea of tightness with all its nautical associations such as tight non-leaky hull, tight rigging but excluding anything to do with the rum ration.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

The naval sense of it is most certainly discipline. One where the right action was held in high esteem, both officers and men.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

The naval sense of it is most certainly discipline. One where the right action was held in high esteem, both officers and men.

It is noteworthy that the demands of the mutineers at both Spithead and the Nore did NOT include any relaxation of discipline, provided it was fairly administered. Indeed, I understand that in both mutinies the mutineers imposed as harsh a discipline as the Articles of War. Basically, there was a widespread understanding that a fairly disciplined ship was a happy ship; it was arbitrary, unfair discipline that led to bloodshed.

 

[johnalison]

It is noteworthy that the demands of the mutineers at both Spithead and the Nore did NOT include any relaxation of discipline, provided it was fairly administered. Indeed, I understand that in both mutinies the mutineers imposed as harsh a discipline as the Articles of War. Basically, there was a widespread understanding that a fairly disciplined ship was a happy ship; it was arbitrary, unfair discipline that led to bloodshed.

Melville, in Whitejacket, goes on at some length about the excessive and cruel punishments meted out in the US navy of the time, and holds up the Royal Navy as an example of a more enlightened regime.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Melville, in Whitejacket, goes on at some length about the excessive and cruel punishments meted out in the US navy of the time, and holds up the Royal Navy as an example of a more enlightened regime.

Officers like Marryat (who's career started during the Napoleonic wars) campaigned against corporal punishment in the Royal Navy, and even during the Napoleonic wars the use of flogging was limited by the regulations, though examples of this limit being exceeded without retribution are easily found. It was abolished sometime in the 19th century; I'd have to look up when exactly - but certainly when officers of Nelson's navy were still serving. However such behaviour was widely condemned - it was felt that an officer who could only maintain discipline by recourse to the lash was a bad officer.

On another level, corporal punishment was still in use at the grammar school I attended, as a final sanction. However, perhaps because it was there, it's use was very rare - perhaps once a year at most.

 

[johnalison]

Officers like Marryat (who's career started during the Napoleonic wars) campaigned against corporal punishment in the Royal Navy, and even during the Napoleonic wars the use of flogging was limited by the regulations, though examples of this limit being exceeded without retribution are easily found. It was abolished sometime in the 19th century; I'd have to look up when exactly - but certainly when officers of Nelson's navy were still serving. However such behaviour was widely condemned - it was felt that an officer who could only maintain discipline by recourse to the lash was a bad officer.

On another level, corporal punishment was still in use at the grammar school I attended, as a final sanction. However, perhaps because it was there, it's use was very rare - perhaps once a year at most.

Yes, Melville was writing circa 1840, some time after the Napoleonic era. The half-hour after lights-out at school was enlivened by the echoing sounds of slippers being wielded around the house. The cane, of course, was only ever in the hands of teachers.

 

[[194497]]

The phrase simply means a ship that is disciplined and well-run with careful, detailed planning and well-drilled routines.

 

[name]

Quite simply good caulking, good and watertight is to maintain 'a (water) tight ship'.

 

[Blueboatman]

I don’t know
Some threads are timeless


But I hope the OP is still enjoying that wunnerful, brightly coloured asymmetric chute pictured in his forum moniker , pictured atop a watertight and solid ship!

 

[Poignard]

The phrase simply means a ship that is disciplined and well-run with careful, detailed planning and well-drilled routines.

The phrase simply means a ship that is disciplined and well-run with careful, detailed planning and well-drilled routines.

All a taunt o.