tcm
...
Re: ooh - nearer 21months?
right well i reckon umm...it's a halberg rassy. Ooh, I can't wait either now!
right well i reckon umm...it's a halberg rassy. Ooh, I can't wait either now!
What is commissioning?
- Thread starter Vanilla
- Start date
Vanilla
Well-Known Member
Re: ooh - nearer 21months?
I'm impressed!
I'm impressed!
Sheff
Well-Known Member
Re: What did you get?
Intriguing............... thought the same.
Najad, Rassy, Malo.................. definitely can't be a Benjenbav
Spirit, possibly?.............oops, no, just saw reference to it coming from overseas.
Intriguing............... thought the same.
Najad, Rassy, Malo.................. definitely can't be a Benjenbav
Spirit, possibly?.............oops, no, just saw reference to it coming from overseas.
tcm
...
Re: ooh - nearer 21months?
good call not to have it in november, really - six weeks and it's last years boat...
good call not to have it in november, really - six weeks and it's last years boat...
cnh
Well-Known Member
Re: ooh - nearer 21months?
The price quoted on new boats are what might be called 'ex factory'. You could say that commissioning should be included in the price, but you'll be lucky if you find a company that does that.
I bought a new boat last year. It was built in Poland, and of course transporting it to the UK would be costly. I saved a lot of money by collecting it in Poland - but then, I was retired, and had the time to spare. not everyone is so lucky.
I arrived at the yacht club just to see it being lowered into the water. The Poles then spent the next two days working flat out to fit it out. There was a lot of work involved, and they did a good job of it.
And if anyone's interested, this is the boat in question .
Nicholas Hill
The price quoted on new boats are what might be called 'ex factory'. You could say that commissioning should be included in the price, but you'll be lucky if you find a company that does that.
I bought a new boat last year. It was built in Poland, and of course transporting it to the UK would be costly. I saved a lot of money by collecting it in Poland - but then, I was retired, and had the time to spare. not everyone is so lucky.
I arrived at the yacht club just to see it being lowered into the water. The Poles then spent the next two days working flat out to fit it out. There was a lot of work involved, and they did a good job of it.
And if anyone's interested, this is the boat in question .
Nicholas Hill
Channel Ribs
Well-Known Member
Re: It\'s four thousand pounds sir...
[ QUOTE ]
They haven't mentioned the "C" word yet which I why I'm planning my response for when they do, if they do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dont be shy when it comes to putting your foot down, The Industry as a whole is bracing itself for what they call an increase is customer expectations.
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
[ QUOTE ]
They haven't mentioned the "C" word yet which I why I'm planning my response for when they do, if they do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dont be shy when it comes to putting your foot down, The Industry as a whole is bracing itself for what they call an increase is customer expectations.
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Andrew_Fanner
Well-Known Member
Re: It\'s four thousand pounds sir...
You could argue that antifouling could be added, and charged for, after all, you, the punter, might want to specify a brand and it can only be left dry for so long. Otherwise it does appear to be a con.
You could argue that antifouling could be added, and charged for, after all, you, the punter, might want to specify a brand and it can only be left dry for so long. Otherwise it does appear to be a con.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
I seem to remember Nigel Calder once tried to take delivery of a new boat without 'Commissioning' - he said he would do it himself. He changed his mind after he tried it - and he is NOT your average boat owner. (He writes books on boat maintenance). If I remember rightly he said it was a completely false economy as it took him weeks of hassle to get things sorted under warranty. He took delivery of the boat in the USA - so its not just a Brit thing.
I think commisiioning will include putting the rig up, running all the running rigging, checking fit of sails etc (amazing how many don't quite fit a standard production boat.) Sorting out the engine, checking alignment etc. Checking fit and operation of all items on board including all the intruments etc.
It might include a check test sail with you, and might even include priming and antfouling the bottom.
But at the end of the day all things are negotiable.
I think commisiioning will include putting the rig up, running all the running rigging, checking fit of sails etc (amazing how many don't quite fit a standard production boat.) Sorting out the engine, checking alignment etc. Checking fit and operation of all items on board including all the intruments etc.
It might include a check test sail with you, and might even include priming and antfouling the bottom.
But at the end of the day all things are negotiable.
StugeronSteve
Well-Known Member
Re: ooh - nearer 21months?
I had always understood commissioning to be the process of hand over to the customer, whereby the seller demonstrates to the buyer, or is independent agent, that everything is fit for purpose, before the buyer signs acceptance documents and pays the balance of the dosh. It doesn't appear to work like this in the leisure boat industry.
I'm don't know what the profit margin is on a new monohull, though I'm sure there are those on the furum that could enlighten me, I suspect that the "commissioning" charge forms part of it. The work carried out by the dealer is likely to have the greatest influence of your early impressions of the boat. It tends to be the bits that they stick on, like running rigging, reefing gear etc, that will jam at inopportune moments, if not correctly installed, so you don't really want it botched.
It shouldn't be an extra, should it? It would be much fairer if commissioning was included in the ticket price of the boat, but since when has boat buying been fair? I suppose it gives peeps the option of buying a boat "ex-works" in order to prepare it themselves, as long as this doesn't invalidate the terms of the warranty. We would have to pay to get an IKEA wardrobe built if we wanted it to be fit for purpose, so why should a boat be different.
Get used to flashing the cheque book / plastic and enjoy your new boat.
I had always understood commissioning to be the process of hand over to the customer, whereby the seller demonstrates to the buyer, or is independent agent, that everything is fit for purpose, before the buyer signs acceptance documents and pays the balance of the dosh. It doesn't appear to work like this in the leisure boat industry.
I'm don't know what the profit margin is on a new monohull, though I'm sure there are those on the furum that could enlighten me, I suspect that the "commissioning" charge forms part of it. The work carried out by the dealer is likely to have the greatest influence of your early impressions of the boat. It tends to be the bits that they stick on, like running rigging, reefing gear etc, that will jam at inopportune moments, if not correctly installed, so you don't really want it botched.
It shouldn't be an extra, should it? It would be much fairer if commissioning was included in the ticket price of the boat, but since when has boat buying been fair? I suppose it gives peeps the option of buying a boat "ex-works" in order to prepare it themselves, as long as this doesn't invalidate the terms of the warranty. We would have to pay to get an IKEA wardrobe built if we wanted it to be fit for purpose, so why should a boat be different.
Get used to flashing the cheque book / plastic and enjoy your new boat.
sighmoon
Well-Known Member
Re: ooh - nearer 21months?
[ QUOTE ]
I'm impressed!
[/ QUOTE ]
So am I.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm impressed!
[/ QUOTE ]
So am I.
tcm
...
cheat confesses
if you do a "show all users posts" on user "vanilla" you you soon see that she a has been more interested in threads about HR's than others, knows more about them. Hence the guess
if you do a "show all users posts" on user "vanilla" you you soon see that she a has been more interested in threads about HR's than others, knows more about them. Hence the guess
Pinnacle
Well-Known Member
Re: cheat confesses
Elementary my dear Watson................ /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Elementary my dear Watson................ /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
jamesjermain
Well-Known Member
This is certainly not a naive question.
Commissioning can take up to a fortnight, depending on the number of 'dealer installed' extras that were ordered. But I agree with many posters that basic commissioning (setting up spars, standing and running rigging, commissioning the engine, testing stanard inventory equipment, etc) should be included in the price. The problem is that the headline price quoted may well be simply the builder's price adjusted for currency, and of course, the builder can't know what cost base the dealer will be working to and so cannot dictate a commissioning price, although one might be suggested.
Dealers also charge separately for delivery and antifouling for obvious reasons.
Commissioning can take up to a fortnight, depending on the number of 'dealer installed' extras that were ordered. But I agree with many posters that basic commissioning (setting up spars, standing and running rigging, commissioning the engine, testing stanard inventory equipment, etc) should be included in the price. The problem is that the headline price quoted may well be simply the builder's price adjusted for currency, and of course, the builder can't know what cost base the dealer will be working to and so cannot dictate a commissioning price, although one might be suggested.
Dealers also charge separately for delivery and antifouling for obvious reasons.
Vanilla
Well-Known Member
Thanks once again for all this wisdom. A lot of the things mentioned here as commissioning are incuded in the (scary)base price thankfully.
TCM I reckon MI5 (or is it M16) need your detective skills. I should think some on here might blush to have their "interests" checked out. Lakesailor photos might rank high!
TCM I reckon MI5 (or is it M16) need your detective skills. I should think some on here might blush to have their "interests" checked out. Lakesailor photos might rank high!
moondancer
Well-Known Member
Commissioning can take a fair amount of UK labour costs. Just as everyone observes that things cost more in the UK - so does labour. Our smaller boats, for example, require keels to be installed and along with setting up instruments, mast step, antifouling, test sail etc can add up to a lot of hours.
Charging seperately, I guess also allows a lower headline price to be advertised. Some (we incuded) included commissioning in the headline price. As long as it is clear up front - does it matter?
Charging seperately, I guess also allows a lower headline price to be advertised. Some (we incuded) included commissioning in the headline price. As long as it is clear up front - does it matter?
doris
Well-Known Member
Have PM'd you
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
Commissioning is charged everywhere its just at different prices.
Boats are delivered by low loader. Delivery Charge is part of overall commissioning charge and is cost of lorry/ferry and cranage. It is obviously cheaper for French/German boats to be delivered to their own ports than to England.
Once delivered the boat is put in a cradle and the handrails put up, the mast errected and the running rigging put on (halyards & sheets). Often all the electrics are fitted by the dealer as the manufacturer produced a "standard" boat and the addition of options like chartplotters and radar and vhf radio, stereo and maybe a TV alters the layout both at the helm position and the chart table.
The boat is normally supplied with many items like steering wheel, internal cushions all removed and packed inside for transit, likewise items like fridges/cookers/microwaves are installed in a "transit" condition and shelves etc need unpacking and installed, the gas cylinder added and the items "Commissioned" - call it made ready for use.
The underside needs antifouling and the instruments need calibrating and all the warrantee forms filled in dated and stamped.
As others mention this normally takes about 2 weeks.
Once in the water a dealer from the engine manufacturer will do a pre delivery inspection and ensure the engine is working OK.
Now all this work is going to cost and is dependant on local labour rates and distance from factory to port of delivery so most manufacturers have a standard ex-factory price and the local dealer/distributor works out the cost of the commissioning.
You can either haggle and get it thrown in or negotiate a discount on the boat cost. I prefer to pay for what things cost as its difficult to complain about items that were "gratis"!
Finally the most important part, we can then all write about it and complain about rip off Britain or be sensible and make sure we don't pay the full amount on handover. At handover there is so much to take in and not everything is demonstrated, some faults you won't find until usage. Do take a notebook and take notes and insist on a return visit say 2 weeks later to go over further questions you need answers to.
If then after 2 weeks everything is fine pay the last say 5%. I have always found faults at handover and retained enough money to rectify these faults. On the last boat it took 18months - be warned.
Any reputable dealer will rectify all faults under warantee without any hassle but I like to keep some money back as i believe "Fairness is best achieved from a position of power!"
Boats are delivered by low loader. Delivery Charge is part of overall commissioning charge and is cost of lorry/ferry and cranage. It is obviously cheaper for French/German boats to be delivered to their own ports than to England.
Once delivered the boat is put in a cradle and the handrails put up, the mast errected and the running rigging put on (halyards & sheets). Often all the electrics are fitted by the dealer as the manufacturer produced a "standard" boat and the addition of options like chartplotters and radar and vhf radio, stereo and maybe a TV alters the layout both at the helm position and the chart table.
The boat is normally supplied with many items like steering wheel, internal cushions all removed and packed inside for transit, likewise items like fridges/cookers/microwaves are installed in a "transit" condition and shelves etc need unpacking and installed, the gas cylinder added and the items "Commissioned" - call it made ready for use.
The underside needs antifouling and the instruments need calibrating and all the warrantee forms filled in dated and stamped.
As others mention this normally takes about 2 weeks.
Once in the water a dealer from the engine manufacturer will do a pre delivery inspection and ensure the engine is working OK.
Now all this work is going to cost and is dependant on local labour rates and distance from factory to port of delivery so most manufacturers have a standard ex-factory price and the local dealer/distributor works out the cost of the commissioning.
You can either haggle and get it thrown in or negotiate a discount on the boat cost. I prefer to pay for what things cost as its difficult to complain about items that were "gratis"!
Finally the most important part, we can then all write about it and complain about rip off Britain or be sensible and make sure we don't pay the full amount on handover. At handover there is so much to take in and not everything is demonstrated, some faults you won't find until usage. Do take a notebook and take notes and insist on a return visit say 2 weeks later to go over further questions you need answers to.
If then after 2 weeks everything is fine pay the last say 5%. I have always found faults at handover and retained enough money to rectify these faults. On the last boat it took 18months - be warned.
Any reputable dealer will rectify all faults under warantee without any hassle but I like to keep some money back as i believe "Fairness is best achieved from a position of power!"
Daedelus
Well-Known Member
Vague recollection that HR are not transported to this country but are handed over in Sweden and its up to you how you get it back.
There's also quite a long list of what extras do you want put on it, some which I think should be included but I suppose everyone's different.
When we visited Transworld (UK importers of HR) their attitude put us off: you're stupid if you don't want one of these, it'll be 15 months before you can have it, and almost as if they were doing us a favour by selling itt to us.
Having said all that, the boats are bl**dy nice tho. Sure you'll have a great time with it.
There's also quite a long list of what extras do you want put on it, some which I think should be included but I suppose everyone's different.
When we visited Transworld (UK importers of HR) their attitude put us off: you're stupid if you don't want one of these, it'll be 15 months before you can have it, and almost as if they were doing us a favour by selling itt to us.
Having said all that, the boats are bl**dy nice tho. Sure you'll have a great time with it.
PIGLETSDREAM
Well-Known Member
Ive delivered HR's from the factory and I have yet to accept one as finished. On the other hand they do sail well and have had some pretty horrible weather to test them, but like most new boats are becoming more geared for being at anchor.
PTG1
Active Member
In a word 'FRAUD'.
Any item sold must be 'fit for purpose', if it's delivered in any other state then the seller hasn't honoured their part of the contract.
Obviously fitting extras can be charged for, but basics like rigging, stepping etc should be included to make your sparkly new boat fit to sail.
If every new boat owner challenged the manufacturers and refused to pay, things would change. Unfortunately they'd probably just up the price by 10%!! Still, it would only take one or two brave manufacturers to start a 'price war'.
Any item sold must be 'fit for purpose', if it's delivered in any other state then the seller hasn't honoured their part of the contract.
Obviously fitting extras can be charged for, but basics like rigging, stepping etc should be included to make your sparkly new boat fit to sail.
If every new boat owner challenged the manufacturers and refused to pay, things would change. Unfortunately they'd probably just up the price by 10%!! Still, it would only take one or two brave manufacturers to start a 'price war'.
