LONG_KEELER
Well-Known Member
You often hear this term.
But how is it defined ?
Any thoughts ?
But how is it defined ?
Any thoughts ?
What is a Natural Sailor
- Thread starter LONG_KEELER
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FWB
N/A
APTITUDE
People either have it or they don't. Same with flying.
People either have it or they don't. Same with flying.
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bitbaltic
Well-Known Member
I've never heard the term.
On reflection I'm not surprised
On reflection I'm not surprised
Kukri
Well-Known Member
Good parallel.
I have heard "natural seaman" more frequently than "natural sailor", but I am one, my father was one and my eldest son is another. A lot of people are not, but that does not make them bad seamen, they just have to work much harder at it.
RichardS
N/A
Poignard
Well-Known Member
Someone who sails with no clothes on?
Serin
Well-Known Member
There are certainly some people who seem never to be at home on a boat and others who take to it very quickly. I see both aboard my boat and it doesn't necessarily reflect their enjoyment. One of my favourite regular sailing companions is in the former group.
This was very evident to me when I was working as a sailing instructor many years ago. I have never forgotten a Dutch lad (around 14 years of age) who had no experience of boats, but who just didn't seem to need instruction. He just got in the boat and took off. An instinctive sailor if ever I saw one.
This was very evident to me when I was working as a sailing instructor many years ago. I have never forgotten a Dutch lad (around 14 years of age) who had no experience of boats, but who just didn't seem to need instruction. He just got in the boat and took off. An instinctive sailor if ever I saw one.
johnalison
Well-Known Member
In my experience, people either cotton on naturally, or, if they really want to sail, have to work hard just to manage.
Back in the '60s I chose a couple of fellow students to come on a Broads week with me, mainly on the basis that neither had sailed and thus I would be skipper. One was a thickish Irish chap who struggled with exams and who had a casual attitude to life. The other was an intelligent bloke who became a consultant and my best man. He studied sailing beforehand by getting a How To book and hiring boats in Regent's Park.
In the event, I put the Irish chap in a lugs'l dinghy and roughly indicated where the wind was and said "because of the wind, you can sail this way and that way but not in that way", pushed him off and within a couple of minutes he was sailing up and down as if he had always done it. At the end of the week, my brighter companion was still not safe to be left at the helm of anything since he had no clue about what was happening around him.
On another occasion, I took my much older brother-in-law overnight in my tiny Cirrus. In spite of the fact that he was well over 6', within half an hour he had worked out what was going on and was never in the way in spite of his bulk during his stay. Most people need to be told what to do continually.
Back in the '60s I chose a couple of fellow students to come on a Broads week with me, mainly on the basis that neither had sailed and thus I would be skipper. One was a thickish Irish chap who struggled with exams and who had a casual attitude to life. The other was an intelligent bloke who became a consultant and my best man. He studied sailing beforehand by getting a How To book and hiring boats in Regent's Park.
In the event, I put the Irish chap in a lugs'l dinghy and roughly indicated where the wind was and said "because of the wind, you can sail this way and that way but not in that way", pushed him off and within a couple of minutes he was sailing up and down as if he had always done it. At the end of the week, my brighter companion was still not safe to be left at the helm of anything since he had no clue about what was happening around him.
On another occasion, I took my much older brother-in-law overnight in my tiny Cirrus. In spite of the fact that he was well over 6', within half an hour he had worked out what was going on and was never in the way in spite of his bulk during his stay. Most people need to be told what to do continually.
Halcyon Yachts
Well-Known Member
Someone with a big beard and a pipe!
Pete
Pete
Seajet
...
I reckon I'm a natural sailor as in sensing good or bad, weight loading trim or sail loading high low or just right etc - the boat talks to me.
One would think flying must be very similar; but I am crap at flying, sure I could land a light or possibly even fighter aircraft in emergency ( did put a Cessna 172 down when the pilot conked out but airliners are so computerised I'd be buggered ) - much as I want it to, flying does not come instictively to me.
Similarly I have known utterly brilliant Test Pilots who were crap sailors !
It's always struck me as an example of skills which seem so similar, but in fact are very different.
I reckon the first and most important step to being a ' natural sailor ' is to regard the boat as a living being; I talk to the boat and thank, pat & kiss her goodbye when rowing away; this might sound fanciful, but I believe an attitude like this gets one the most enjoyment - or performance -out of the boat.
One would think flying must be very similar; but I am crap at flying, sure I could land a light or possibly even fighter aircraft in emergency ( did put a Cessna 172 down when the pilot conked out but airliners are so computerised I'd be buggered ) - much as I want it to, flying does not come instictively to me.
Similarly I have known utterly brilliant Test Pilots who were crap sailors !
It's always struck me as an example of skills which seem so similar, but in fact are very different.
I reckon the first and most important step to being a ' natural sailor ' is to regard the boat as a living being; I talk to the boat and thank, pat & kiss her goodbye when rowing away; this might sound fanciful, but I believe an attitude like this gets one the most enjoyment - or performance -out of the boat.
Babylon
Well-Known Member
That's a very illuminating story!
I think the question of whether one is natural at anything has got a lot to do with brain-body wiring, the primacy of 'feel' over 'intellect' - or the opposite in some people! Same in sports, in playing the stock-market, in flying radio-control aeroplanes, street-fighting, insurance-selling and in nursing.
One of my challenges teaching furniture-making to adults is to handle the two different types of student. As a rough generalisation the educated 'bookish' people take much longer to get going because they first need to understand what they're being taught before practicing it (and demand a lot more of my time in the process!) The 'instinctive' students on the other hand need to be slowed down, to be opened up to a deeper understanding of the mechanical principles at play, so that they can then advance to a more advanced level of craft and design. Then there's the question of creativity: some have it, some don't. Basic technical and observational drawing can be taught, and a few guiding notions about design introduced (ie 'don't over-egg the pudding!), but some people are natural feelers, observers, experimenters and risk-takers, more than capable of assessing their own concept sketches as interesting, potentials winners - whilst others simply haven't got a clue, simply can't see it!
A natural seaman will probably have an instinctive 'feel' plus an 'understanding' built upon experience at sea, rather than upon purely 'theoretical' learning - but s/he'll need some of the latter as well.
Rosa
Well-Known Member
I reckon the first and most important step to being a ' natural sailor ' is to regard the boat as a living being; I talk to the boat and thank, pat & kiss her goodbye when rowing away; this might sound fanciful, but I believe an attitude like this gets one the most enjoyment - or performance -out of the boat. [/QUOTE]
I agree with this-I do the same with my boat. But I wouldn't consider myself a natural sailor. Can sail OK but downwind I'm rubbish!
[/QUOTE]I agree with this-I do the same with my boat. But I wouldn't consider myself a natural sailor. Can sail OK but downwind I'm rubbish!
LONG_KEELER
Well-Known Member
Really great replies .
I wonder if there is a sailing 'gene' , athletic gene etc..
We can sort of get there eventually if we don't have one, but are likely to be a synthetic version.
Probably more satisfying though than being a natural. :encouragement:
I wonder if there is a sailing 'gene' , athletic gene etc..
We can sort of get there eventually if we don't have one, but are likely to be a synthetic version.
Probably more satisfying though than being a natural. :encouragement:
Seajet
...
Surely nothing is more satisfying than being a natural ? You asked !
Knowing at least a fair bit of the theoretical too helps for sure, but in this case instinct beats brains; I was a chief dinghy instructor, and have also taught quite a few people re cruiser sailing - when they unfortunately hadn't progressed via dinghies first.
I only had one cruiser ' student ' chum who exasperated me, no matter how many times I said ' keep a lookout all around ' he just looked ahead...
He was honest enough to tell me a couple of years later, he'd been ghosting in light winds towards Bembridge - across the main shipping lane - when he'd heard a bow wave and turned round to look UP at a ship's bow !
My instructors were Arthur Ransome - ' keep the burgee pointing towards the main and you won't gybe, feel the wind on your cheek ' - and the late much missed Jenny Boone of Cobnor schools sailing centre.
As for ' natural sailor ' I took a chum who'd never sailed before in his life, but had surfed a lot and knew the sea, from Chichester to Cowes and back again ( staying ashore overnight ) in my Osprey dinghy - I simply knew he would take to trapezing and sailing without batting an eyelid.
That chap went on soon after to crew a blue water cruiser rather a long way, you may meet him if you visit the Folly pub upriver from Cowes.
Serin
Well-Known Member
Takes me back to my time instructing in dinghies and keelboats. I used to get people to steer with one finger on the tiller - on the grounds that the tiller isn't just for you to talk to the boat, but also for the boat to talk to you. Anxiety and/or concentration tend to make people grip tight. The one finger technique was quite a revelation.
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Seajet
...
Completely agree; I should have said that !
I usually use two fingers rested on the top of the tiller; if I find myself gripping it or using arm muscles I know there's something wrong.
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
There is no such thing as natural sailor as it is all learned abilities. Far better to say that a person is a quick learner or even an intuitive learner. A human is not born able to sail.
Wandering Star
Well-Known Member
I think I may have seen your boat, is she an embarrassed looking Andersen 22 with lots of lipstick smudges on her transom?
jbweston
Well-Known Member
I reckon I'm a natural sailor as in sensing good or bad, weight loading trim or sail loading high low or just right etc - the boat talks to me.
One would think flying must be very similar; but I am crap at flying, sure I could land a light or possibly even fighter aircraft in emergency ( did put a Cessna 172 down when the pilot conked out but airliners are so computerised I'd be buggered ) - much as I want it to, flying does not come instictively to me.
Similarly I have known utterly brilliant Test Pilots who were crap sailors !
It's always struck me as an example of skills which seem so similar, but in fact are very different.
I reckon the first and most important step to being a ' natural sailor ' is to regard the boat as a living being; I talk to the boat and thank, pat & kiss her goodbye when rowing away; this might sound fanciful, but I believe an attitude like this gets one the most enjoyment - or performance -out of the boat.
Me too, Seajet.
I stopped sailing when I got married. When I had a time consuming job and a young family I used to fly as I couldn't get the time to go sailing. I wasn't good at it, like some people are not good drivers. I was fine when I was in practice, wide awake and not distracted, but take those factors away and I was borderline (in)competent - just like a granny who can drive OK until she tries holding a conversation with her passenger at the same time. I can remember sitting at Cranfield airfield having flown the aircraft down there for some while-you-wait electronic repairs and deciding there and then over a cup of coffee that I was going to stop flying because if I carried on long enough I'd kill myself.
For me it seems to be about feeling comfortable in control of a boat in a way I never was in an aircraft. I'm not sure whether I'd call it aptitude (I don't claim to be a brilliant sailor, but I think I'm competent) - the boat just feels a more natural environment. Perhaps this is beacuse I was on boats as a child and got used to them in a natural way rather than being 'taught' as an adult.
I agree with you that anyone might think the skills are similar for sailing and flying - navigation, rules of the road, safety checks, feedback through hands on the 'controls' - but they're sufficiently different to feel totally different, if you see what I mean.
Serin
Well-Known Member
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