What has happened to the boat market?

[Refueler]

There's no Glass's or Parkers guide for boats .... they sell for what people are prepared to pay ...

I will not say what I paid for my latest 38ft'r .... you'd accuse me of being a crook !

But say this ... we sailed her to Roja and an elderly couple walked along the pontoon and got chatting to my guy .. mentioned they'd looked at the boat some months earlier and only the wife wanting a more roomy caravan style interior made them look elsewhere. Alex (Sasha) my guy found out from them what price was asked .... Alex nearly choked ! We didn't have the heart to tell the couple what I paid for it ... just over half what he was asked for.

I now see another advertised in the Meddi - at a price that is just unbelievable higher than that ...

People IMHO cannot forget what they pay for a boat ... they then cannot forget the costs of rigging / gear replacemernts / upgrades they do ... and they think that they can sell 5 - 10yrs later for similar money or near......

Sorry its like cars ... no matter what fabulous sound system ... re-chipping ... fancy wheels etc etc you do - there is a market acceptable price and all that fancy gear is literally freebies. Sorry - thats my honest opinion.
Of course a boat that needs such work - should sell for less. But again - sellers look at market and think they can ask same ,,,,

Boats !

 

[Laser310]

It seems to me that the market for 40-50ft cruising sailboats is still very strong.

...at least for boats from "better" builders - X, Arcona, JPK, Allures,

I see few boats on the market, the prices are at least as high as during covid, and they usually sell quickly.

I haven't been looking at Beneteau etc., so I have no idea about that market.

 

[fjcruiserdxb]

There is no point in pricing your boat at the same price as the competition that has not sold for months. Like houses, over pricing then reducing means it will take much longer to sell-buyers wonder if there is something wrong with it. Many vendors believe that by setting their price just below the competition is under-selling their boat! Couldn't be more mistaken. By doing this you will attract competing buyers and achieve the best possible offer the market can manage. It may even be asking price. That's where a good broker makes a difference. They can get these competing buyers by advising the seller not to over price. They know what sold previously either through their own book or via sale data only they get to see. In a difficult market, selling privately is difficult. How do you know where other boats sold when hardly any have been selling in recent months ?

 

[chriss999]

I agree with the comments so far. Lovely boat, a decent price in normal conditions, but market conditions for this sort of boat aren’t normal at the moment. We had a boom; now we have a bust.
If the economy does well, maybe it will pick up. But (imho) not for a year or so so it depends on how keen you are.

Has she been up for long?
If she were mine I’d drop the price by a couple of grand to reflect the benefit of saving a year’s costs by selling her this spring.
OR look for a good broker.
OR keep her for another year and maybe use her in your new location.

 

[lustyd]

Sorry its like cars ... no matter what fabulous sound system ... re-chipping ... fancy wheels etc etc you do - there is a market acceptable price and all that fancy gear is literally freebies. Sorry - thats my honest opinion.

That part I’m ok with. What bothers me is the market also doesn’t punish for doing zero maintenance or updates. Boats with new sails and rigging sell for the same as those with 30 year old knackered kit.

 

[Refueler]

That part I’m ok with. What bothers me is the market also doesn’t punish for doing zero maintenance or updates. Boats with new sails and rigging sell for the same as those with 30 year old knackered kit.

I can agree to an extent ... but if a buyer is astute enough - he should be able to negotiate the price ....

Believe me - you do not want to try selling me a boat !! I look for every avenue ... not only rig / gear - but on two boats I've bought - sellers wives have allowed me to find out - they are pushing hubbie to sell !! Amazing what reduction you can get for that when Wife knows you are near to making offer ...

 

[fjcruiserdxb]

That part I’m ok with. What bothers me is the market also doesn’t punish for doing zero maintenance or updates. Boats with new sails and rigging sell for the same as those with 30 year old knackered kit.

I think the days of selling dumpsters at inflated prices is over. That said, the OP boat looks lovely so she will sell at a price. Good photos (not stock photos), particularly of the interior matters most as well as upgrades/replacement and dates. There is nothing that frustrates me more than looking at bad photos taken with a phone or stock photos or descriptions such as standing rigging checked and replaced in 2012! For sure I'll need a new set. Best presented boat will sell even in a tough market. Been through it myself when I lived abroad just before Covid. My broker got competing buyers so we got asking price albeit we had set at the right price to attract punters, just below the competition.

 

[Refueler]

There is no point in pricing your boat at the same price as the competition that has not sold for months. Like houses, over pricing then reducing means it will take much longer to sell-buyers wonder if there is something wrong with it. Many vendors believe that by setting their price just below the competition is under-selling their boat! Couldn't be more mistaken. By doing this you will attract competing buyers and achieve the best possible offer the market can manage. It may even be asking price. That's where a good broker makes a difference. They can get these competing buyers by advising the seller not to over price. They know what sold previously either through their own book or via sale data only they get to see. In a difficult market, selling privately is difficult. How do you know where other boats sold when hardly any have been selling in recent months ?

All that is fine - except I know plenty Brokers who are not interested in what I term "Bread and Butter" boats ...

 

[Refueler]

I think the days of selling dumpsters at inflated prices is over. That said, the OP boat looks lovely so she will sell at a price. Good photos (not stock photos), particularly of the interior matters most as well as upgrades/replacement and dates. There is nothing that frustrates me more than looking at bad photos taken with a phone or stock photos or descriptions such as standing rigging checked and replaced in 2012! For sure I'll need a new set. Best presented boat will sell even in a tough market. Been through it myself when I lived abroad just before Covid. My broker got competing buyers so we got asking price albeit we had lowered the price to attract punters.

Most photos I see - after viewing many boats over the years ... I also had a secondary line of finding boats for people when I lived in UK .... photos often show boat better than reality ...

You look at photo and think - hey that's nice ... when you get on board - you then see the tell tale water marks in bulkhead corners etc.

To me - tidyness of the photos and person having taken effort to present boat well in photos ... that is important to me ... as well as layout of cabin / gear etc. The actual condition as I say is only really seen by visiting the boat.

 

[fjcruiserdxb]

Like estate agents, only one in ten seems to know what they are doing. I am learning the hard way in this country. Difficult as a buyer as you can't choose the broker but if sellers realised not all brokers are the same and low fee means zilch service....

 

[Snowgoose-1]

Nice boat and condition. You might just have to wait for the right buyer. Reducing the asking price might not have any real effect.

It's been said many times on these forums, there are so many things you can do today.

Sailing requires a big commitment in both time and money.

 

[jamie N]

Another issue for boat seller's will be that they've no cheap option of disposal have they? With my Folkboat, the market price would be £3K-£5K. Scrapping the boat would be 1000kgs of dressed mahogany, brand new wooden mast, good sails and a 1000kgs of iron keel all sold as a Folkboat replacements, an Origo 6000, DSC VHF, McMurdo M10 & an Echomax active reflector. Put together, almost certainly worth more than £5K, and an "as new" trailer also, so if I were to scrap her, I'd not be left with a bill. (I'm not scrapping her BTW!).
To scrap a GRP hull will cost dosh, the ancillaries will be the same of course, but if more folks did scrap their boats, would that actually create a significant demand to maintain the prices desired?

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I don't mean to be negative but the pictures don't help. She is a rare ish but unspectacular small boat from the 70's. The tread master looks dirty, the cabin looks cluttered as does the galley. The big stain on the cabin sole grabs the eye straight away. The only good photo is of the forepeak . There might be someone out there looking for that specific mark who will look past the photos and see the boat but anyone else will see what looks to be a jumble sale. The picture on slings is a perfect example. You can't see the boat for all the fenders and stuff hanging off the back.
I hope you find a buyer but you need to make it look a lot more attractive than the other example which hasn't sold in a year if you are going to catch anyone other than the one guy looking for exactly your boat.

 

[srm]

I bought my last boat 15 years ago when the market was depressed. She had been for sale for 2 years, but an oldish long keel boat with custom fit out so not a mass market offering. My offer was brutal, around 40% below asking, broker came back saying seller wanted a bit more so I made a second offer, still below what they wanted and this was agreed.
I spent money on upgrades, including replacing all rigging before launching, instruments and a new headsail etc. But the last few years she has been neglected, though still sound, due to ill health. I have just sold her, thanks to local word of mouth, for about one quarter of what I paid for her. Near enough a "give away" price, but realistic given her cosmetic condition.

That was my sixth boat, and I have come to the conclusion that sellers usually have an unrealistic idea of their boat's value.

I think the market is 30 to 40% overpriced. As a buyer, it's difficult to make such discounted offers without offending the vendors.

Don't be so sensitive, as long as you are obviously a serious buyer offer a bit below what you are prepared to pay giving your reasons : ie rigging needs replacing, old sails will need upgrading, old VHF not up to current requirements etc.., then if they haggle you can come up a bit and make the seller feel good.

 

[Geoff A]

I think the days of selling dumpsters at inflated prices is over. That said, the OP boat looks lovely so she will sell at a price. Good photos (not stock photos), particularly of the interior matters most as well as upgrades/replacement and dates. There is nothing that frustrates me more than looking at bad photos taken with a phone or stock photos or descriptions such as standing rigging checked and replaced in 2012! For sure I'll need a new set. Best presented boat will sell even in a tough market. Been through it myself when I lived abroad just before Covid. My broker got competing buyers so we got asking price albeit we had set at the right price to attract punters, just below the competition.

I think the days of selling dumpsters at inflated prices is over. (That does not stop sellers from trying. It clogs up the market and waist peoples time and money in traveling to view boats.) I am in the market for a used boat and have been looking since before last Christmas.

 

[steveeasy]

Ive had a look now. she looks smart. nice toe rail. clean cockpit. really nice engine and the lines all back to the cockpit. very nice. yes a few too many cups and bits but smart and tidy. I only have two boats on my mind and yours is not one of them. So I wonder if your problem is its not a Twister or the other thing I spend my entire life thinking about.

Perhaps you need to consider who is your target market. who would want to buy your lovelly boat. It wont be someone fixated on the Twister as they are buying in to the Twister dream. As others have said your boat is very nice and a very good beta engine. Its almost too good.and maybe thats sort of the problem. certainly a credit to all your hard work. Very smart cockpit.

So who is going to buy her and how much will someone pay for her. See if your selling a Twister or Contessa your have a mad bunch of buyers willing to check money away and quite frankly yours looks great. Facebook is your place to sell her. or even the Jester facebook page. List all the positives and how little a new owner will have to spend. facebook has a single handler group. I think your only problem is your boat is not being seen as its maybe not being searched for. So your have to target the adds to your potential buyers. single handed men who dont want to pay too much but get a good safe boat.

Sorry to ramble, my comments have the best intentions.

Steveeasy

.

 

[ylop]

I don't mean to be negative but the pictures don't help. She is a rare ish but unspectacular small boat from the 70's. The tread master looks dirty, the cabin looks cluttered as does the galley. The big stain on the cabin sole grabs the eye straight away. The only good photo is of the forepeak . There might be someone out there looking for that specific mark who will look past the photos and see the boat but anyone else will see what looks to be a jumble sale. The picture on slings is a perfect example. You can't see the boat for all the fenders and stuff hanging off the back.
I hope you find a buyer but you need to make it look a lot more attractive than the other example which hasn't sold in a year if you are going to catch anyone other than the one guy looking for exactly your boat.

I think buck is right - if you want to sell that, it needs to look spotless, have good photos and clearly send a message that it’s in perfect sail away condition. The cabin sole is probably a priority but declutter too.

When we were looking a few years ago - there were loads of cheap old boats on Apollo duck - probably a sign that they weren’t selling even then! If the running costs are £2.5k pa then potential buyers potentially have a lot more ££ for capital purchase, so can be picky. You want a boat like that somewhere that you can keep it at a club or similar for less than half that.

I think those might also be “old man boats” - probably great for sailing but less so for a younger generation who may want creature comforts…. The problem is old men now aren’t quite so flexible for small cabins etc and also want comforts!

 

[Sneaky Pete]

I reluctantly decided last year to sell my Varne 27 because we're moving to Devon and there's little likelyhood of finding a mooring down there straight away. Also, I'm getting so old now that I want something a bit easier to sail, maybe a motor sailor.

She cost me £12K a few years ago and since then, it's been a process of constant refurbishment. Last year I renewed all the standing rigging and all the wiring. She sails beautifully, has a fabulous engine and everything works nicely.

I know boats, like cars, never hold their price but she is now up for sale at almost half the price I paid, with no glimmer of interest. There's another one that has been for sale for a year at a similar price. What do I do, give her away for £2K, including delivery? I just saw a Parker 27 for £10K. You can bet when I'm looking for a motor sailor I won't find one for £6K.

Is anyone managing to sell a secondhand boat or is it all hopeless?

Here she is, not for an advert, but I would appreciate opinions as to whether I am delusional.

Boats for sale UK, used boats, new boat sales, free photo ads - Apollo Duck

Where are you advertising this, Apollo Duck and The Yachtmarket are good starting points you have it on one of them, as much exposure as you can. There are some good Facebook groups for selling boats and there is Gumtree.

 

[mrming]

I watch the boat market closely in the UK and Europe, boats up to around £100k. A lot of this has been covered across various posts above, but to summarise and add a few points of my own:
- Older, smaller boats have been hard to sell for a while now, and I don’t see that improving. The audience that remembers them fondly is ageing out and they cost too much to keep for what you get.
- As also said above, to sell any boat in this market it needs to be very well presented and photographed.
- Boats that have a bit of living space, well presented & equipped, and in good condition are still selling relatively quickly for decent prices. That starts around 32ft, my knowledge of the market runs out around 45ft. As an example a friend recently sold an excellent 1991 Dehler 34 for £42k, within 2 weeks.
- Most used boats, however, are either overpriced / poorly presented or both. Often the seller has not upgraded equipment over the years, and the next buyer faces chunky costs for sails and electronics.
- The best condition used boats are in Germany and the Netherlands, however it’s not usually practical for us to buy those now.
- The much maligned (on here) AWBs turned out to be much better quality than the nay sayers thought, and a lot of them still look great after 20 years, and can be found for reasonably sensible prices.
- The most overpriced boats I see (imo) are older Halberg Rasseys, often with an ageing teak deck, old sails, and electronics from the late 90s.
- For the buyers, good boats are out there in the UK but you need to look hard and it helps to be flexible as to what make and model you would entertain.
- For the sellers, lots of good advice in this thread, I do agree that for older, well presented boats, just reducing the price won’t necessarily work - you need to hope a buyer eventually comes out of the woodwork. We had a beautiful Twister for sale in our marina for over a year. Last week I heard it’s finally sold.

 

[BobnLesley]

Not sure why buyers always think boats are overpriced. If you have not found anything then your probably not digging deep enough.
Lots of boats for sale and easy therefore to do a deal I suspect.

Steveeasy

Conversely, I'm not sure why sellers always think their boats are reasonably/under priced. If you can't attract any buyers you are probably trying to dig too deep.
We've owned and sold two relatively low value boats and both were priced at 25-30% below what I considered to be very reasonable value from the start; sure I 'lost' on those sales, but I more than offset those losses in the yard, repair and brokerage fees that I saved.
Cars and motorbikes can within reason be sold next week, month or even year, but just one extra winter of owning an unused boat can easily cost you £5k in storage fees and general deterioration costs. If you don't want it, get rid as fast as you can; one of ours sold in 2 days, the other in 5.