Sandy
Well-known member
There was a boat in a yard I used to be in where the owner used to come out for two weeks over the summer. At the time I thought he was bonkers, but am now thinking that it was a jolly good idea.
What experience made you think about giving up sailing ?
- Thread starter Snowgoose-1
- Start date
onesea
Well-known member
People there are too many of us, in general.
I am with @Baggywrinkle on this one.
I like sailing however being Solent based really doesn't help. It might not be flotillas however there are enough people with little respect that it makes you think.
When did a 20' passing distance at 20+ knots become acceptable?
50'+ boats for a couple, out for the night clogging up harbours and anchorages.
The race starting at about 1400 on a Saturday to get the better berth. Sails come down engines on fenders start appearing about a mile out.
Sailing has become too much about the destination and image not the experience and the journey.
Sadly "the hut" in Colwell Bay (small Anchourage not great holding or shelter) is loosing its reputation and boats are starting to leak out to other better anchorages.
To me much has been lost in England to Marinas and walk ashore pontoons. All very nice but anchorages, rafting and dinghies, beach landings, create shared experiences and a community, individual berth's create isolationism and snobbery.
The thing the Marinas are homing in on to increase berthing costs. You see it on Facebook, the attitude of you have to ask the price you should not be here. If you don't have all the gear you should not be out there.
I see many many boats who's sailing gear is worth more than the initial value of my boat. Yet I am enjoying sailing without feeling the need for branded Southern Ocean waterproofs, or even wear the ones I have got.
As for mountain biking I see it in the New forest (who considered banning E-bikes from the forest), we have always had those that cycled off track in the forest(I cannot say I haven't). They had to be fit enough and skilled enough.
Now with E-bikes the numbers have multiplied x10 or more. They churn up tracks many of my many walks are near impassible, due to the condition of the tracks for most of the year.
Traditional bikers tend to be appreciative of your efforts to move out of there way. E-bikers often just shout to get out of the way ("to the left" or "to the right", like my dog understands?) or ring there bells.
Yet the forest by laws are clear you should not be on these tracks, that's why I walk my dogs here (one having had to many bikes race close by shouting he's started him reacting).
The same must go for many sports that had there following, canoeists probably say the same about SUP's.
I just hope those about the destination realise they have limited destinations and move on.
I am with @Baggywrinkle on this one.
I like sailing however being Solent based really doesn't help. It might not be flotillas however there are enough people with little respect that it makes you think.
When did a 20' passing distance at 20+ knots become acceptable?
50'+ boats for a couple, out for the night clogging up harbours and anchorages.
The race starting at about 1400 on a Saturday to get the better berth. Sails come down engines on fenders start appearing about a mile out.
Sailing has become too much about the destination and image not the experience and the journey.
Sadly "the hut" in Colwell Bay (small Anchourage not great holding or shelter) is loosing its reputation and boats are starting to leak out to other better anchorages.
To me much has been lost in England to Marinas and walk ashore pontoons. All very nice but anchorages, rafting and dinghies, beach landings, create shared experiences and a community, individual berth's create isolationism and snobbery.
The thing the Marinas are homing in on to increase berthing costs. You see it on Facebook, the attitude of you have to ask the price you should not be here. If you don't have all the gear you should not be out there.
I see many many boats who's sailing gear is worth more than the initial value of my boat. Yet I am enjoying sailing without feeling the need for branded Southern Ocean waterproofs, or even wear the ones I have got.
As for mountain biking I see it in the New forest (who considered banning E-bikes from the forest), we have always had those that cycled off track in the forest(I cannot say I haven't). They had to be fit enough and skilled enough.
Now with E-bikes the numbers have multiplied x10 or more. They churn up tracks many of my many walks are near impassible, due to the condition of the tracks for most of the year.
Traditional bikers tend to be appreciative of your efforts to move out of there way. E-bikers often just shout to get out of the way ("to the left" or "to the right", like my dog understands?) or ring there bells.
Yet the forest by laws are clear you should not be on these tracks, that's why I walk my dogs here (one having had to many bikes race close by shouting he's started him reacting).
The same must go for many sports that had there following, canoeists probably say the same about SUP's.
I just hope those about the destination realise they have limited destinations and move on.
Stemar
Well-known member
Not much when out on the water - not even this year's RTI! OTOH, stripping two hulls in the cold, dodging the rain, this winter... Never again!
johnalison
Well-known member
It is the same as the problem of tourism generally. I have not sought to see the Mona Lisa, for example, but I can see that today's experience can't compare with that of visitors a hundred years ago who could spend as long as they wished looking at the painting in its frame without glass. I look at old photos of what it was like to cruise in the '30s and '50s with some envy, but our experience in the '70s was not dissimilar, and both are a world away from today's crowded places, and where powerboats and jet-skis abound, making sailing in light winds unrewarding in large stretches of our coast.
srm
Well-known member
Reminds me of an article by J. D Sleightholme when he was editor of YM so probably in the 70's. To summarise; an elderly gentleman took his boat out sailing on the east coast on a fine day late in the year when most boats were already laid up. On his returned he went in to the yard's office and told them to put his boat up for sale. When asked why he said "Sailing today reminded me of what it used to be like".
Lucky Duck
Well-known member
Following on from this are the number of places seemingly fully booked weeks in advance. I have all but given up on the August bank holiday as it seems to be especially problematic in this regard.
servus
Member
veshengro, my sincere compliments and respect!Not so much as give up sailing, but the single handed voyaging life I had been living for 17 years. Years spent between wandering in the Med and sailing home every year or so, and 2 Atlantic crossings, well one and a half because the first one I stuffed my boat on a reef in the Bahamas and had to fly home. Second one in my Nic 32 was a much more successful proper 'round trip'..
Thirteen years ago at nearly 68, I sailed from Falmouth as usual, bound for the Med and a winter in Greece.
Leaving Falmouth Bay in July, as always on a course to take me about halfway between the Isles of Scilly and Ushant.
I haven't given up sailing but it's all coastal now. A. I'm nearly 80 and B. I can't stand the nagging from my Kids and Granddaughter...
I am about twelve years younger than you and without comparing your very intensive and possibly lucky high sea experience to my mountaineering, motorbiking, my comparatively small sailing experiences, big game hunting or farming I can say that one just keeps bu..ering on, because you like what you are doing,, it is normally not so bad, it is actually a life-style, you name the reasons.
Saturation hopefully comes slowly and not with a bang.
As experience has shown: many men go fishing. Some like to eat fish, some others like to be at the sea or the river. The vast majority though just wants to get away from the dragon.
Keep the good spirit, G.
onesea
Well-known member
The even mid week the answer is phone on the day, well that's no frigin use when I want to order a supermarket delivery. The local stores don't sell what I need or and are so expensive.
Some stuff it's just not practicable to carry across town, dog food in bulk being one.
Then there is the leave before 12 or pay another night. Doesn't matter the tide turns at 1300 and you only arrived at 2200. Here before 1200 we charge after 1200 we charge you again.
Not much help to coastal sailor working there way along coast with tides changing.
Only leaves you hoping empires will fall.
johnalison
Well-known member
It is not a topic I had thought about much, but some or many Continental harbours seem to charge from midnight, the Mercator and Cherbourg being examples I have met. In one instance we were delayed by being boarded by customs and arrived late in Cherbourg, entitling us to be charged as from that morning. Elsewhere, I can't remember having been rooked in the way you describe, though I have no doubt that it happens.
Stemar
Well-known member
I see a lot of them along the coast
veshengro
Well-known member
Thank you G. It's only the foreign voyaging that I have given up, and not just because of the slight problem off the Portugese Coast. Months later in that voyage my boat suffered a complete engine breakdown in Italy and I was obliged to sail her across to SpaIn where I hoped to get spares and rebuild the diesel. That's MacBear my shipmate and the only Scotsman I ever knew who was a bloody useless Engineer...
While in Spain I had time to reflect on the voyage and realised that times had changed since my first voyage. Many old Anchorages with mooring buoys sited, Customs and Officials seemed to have increased ten fold and the costs of berths had increased in many Ports and Marinas. There were places where I had sailed in past years which were beginning to be bordering on No Go Areas because of the movement of waterborne refugees. So, not just the one event for me brought about the decision to stop voyaging and with a Granddaughter about to leave University with a Law Degree and the frightening thought that I would have to tidy myself up, perhaps even buy a neck Tie, for her graduation, I decided that coastal sailing was my limit there after.
No intention of giving up sailing though, I'm 80 now but when I get old I might consider swallowing the anchor.
While in Spain I had time to reflect on the voyage and realised that times had changed since my first voyage. Many old Anchorages with mooring buoys sited, Customs and Officials seemed to have increased ten fold and the costs of berths had increased in many Ports and Marinas. There were places where I had sailed in past years which were beginning to be bordering on No Go Areas because of the movement of waterborne refugees. So, not just the one event for me brought about the decision to stop voyaging and with a Granddaughter about to leave University with a Law Degree and the frightening thought that I would have to tidy myself up, perhaps even buy a neck Tie, for her graduation, I decided that coastal sailing was my limit there after.
No intention of giving up sailing though, I'm 80 now but when I get old I might consider swallowing the anchor.
dunedin
Well-known member
Sounds like you choose to sail in the busiest location in the UK. Perhaps you need to move to a less crowded location, or chill and adapt how you do things.
Surely you can manage without a supermarket delivery when on your boat - either by stocking up before departure or helping the local business by using the local shops. Where we sail there is often no shop at all and so have boat supplies to be self sufficient for well over a week.
And there are very few tides that would mean a huge issue leaving an hour early and just going a bit slower (perhaps Corryvreckan, Pentland Firth and Portland Bill inner may be exceptions in a strong wind). But surely that is what a kedge is for, so depart pontoon before noon, drop anchor and put kettle on. Enjoy the scenery outside a busy marina.
Stemar
Well-known member
Get a shallow draft boat, and you can get to places the less privileged just can't. I don't think we've ever not found a space, even at East Head on a busy Saturday. Marina costs aren't an issue, as we don't do marinas, unless you count Ryde (£21 a night) or Newport (£19.50)
servus
Member
Fishing, hunting, sailing, golf - I guess, not being a golfer, many more ... the ggod ones can occupy the mind (golf?), they all create an alternative environment. The more taxing the circumstances - the better they work. Possibly for the dragon too.I see a lot of them along the coast
SaltyC
Well-known member
I was pleasantly surprised, after arriving at 0130 and booking in saying not sure 1 or 2 nights, OK pay before you go. Stayed 2 (1 1/2) Nights and the response on departure was you arrived on the Xth you've only stayed 1 night.
Big tick for that Marina chain.
onesea
Well-known member
Life takes funny turns you make the most of it, I ended up living and sailing in a busy area.
At home I can be under sail in 45 minutes from leaving the front door and sail all year. We have adapted to our area we rarely use Marinas in the Solent.
However for the last 2 months I have been out of the Solent. Plan had been to turn north but a month of northerlies...
Instead I/we have enjoyed the Cornish coast with northerlies having not been here before. Although I have not got to the Scillies for various reasons.
We can do 7 days on fresh, plus 7 on cans 2 up. I can do longer on my own.
Dog food is a PITA as that's near 10kg a week with 2 of them half with just the one. And takes a fair mount of space.
Regarding dropping the kedge, it's finding anchorages that are sheltered that are not eel grass or whatever areas. As you say for £50 it's easier to sail against the current for a few hours.
However when its raining and your on passage with a head wind the tide is going to turn against you. I grumble when 6 hours rest is going to cost £50 or nearly twice that if you go passed 1200 hours.
Local shops had been my plan however I have found them generally expensive.
£5 for a loaf of frozen bread and 2 Ltrs of milk (not 4 pints),
£3 for 2 ltrs of milk.
In one pub - £12 for a cheese sandwich. Serves my right for not reading the menu. "Cornish Yarg" that sounds intresting I will have that, a cheese sandwich.
Most shops would not have 10kg of dog food available.
Some don't seem to have many of the basics, set for tourists buying luxuries. The locals shop in supermarkets and home deliveries like everyone else.
The other day I picked up a buoy, to visit a port I had not visited. Charge for the buoy (expected), charge to use dinghy pontoon (a new one on me), I used the beach it was free.
If your not of the buoy by 11 we will charge you again, not heard that since I got West of Brixham.
Plan had been to leave early afternoon in the rain after the morning down pour. So I had a very wet sail to my next port, instead of a wet one.
Of note it had a well stocked Co-op and I now know where the free Anchourage is.
First stop for about £20 I have tended to use buoys to chat with harbour people and find out what's what.
Many have given me good info - including free anchorage and its hazards, nearest grass for dog (can be hard to find in Cornwall) and is she allowed on the beaches etc.
servus
Member
Hello veshengroThank you G. It's only the foreign voyaging that I have given up, and not just because of the slight problem off the Portugese Coast. Months later in that voyage my boat suffered a complete engine breakdown in Italy and I was obliged to sail her across to SpaIn where I hoped to get spares and rebuild the diesel. That's MacBear my shipmate and the only Scotsman I ever knew who was a bloody useless Engineer...
While in Spain I had time to reflect on the voyage and realised that times had changed since my first voyage. Many old Anchorages with mooring buoys sited, Customs and Officials seemed to have increased ten fold and the costs of berths had increased in many Ports and Marinas. There were places where I had sailed in past years which were beginning to be bordering on No Go Areas because of the movement of waterborne refugees. So, not just the one event for me brought about the decision to stop voyaging and with a Granddaughter about to leave University with a Law Degree and the frightening thought that I would have to tidy myself up, perhaps even buy a neck Tie, for her graduation, I decided that coastal sailing was my limit there after.
No intention of giving up sailing though, I'm 80 now but when I get old I might consider swallowing the anchor.
Some years ago in Akzo Marina next to Preveza/Ionian I ran into an English couple on a semi classic 35 or so footer, both well into retirement age, and we chatted about how things were decades ago. Actually he chatted, I listened. He said: "you know, time ago we (the cruisers/liveaboards) were an attrection, then we developped into a nuisance and now we have finally deteriorated into a business. Now we are farked."
I think that this statement is valid for many developments. We - whoever we are - are being regarded as a resource, a raw material to be utilised and discarded when the revenues decrease.
Where is, can off - my late father in law used to say. I call it the entitlement-craze.
One can linger on this subject ad infinitum. The big asset on the positive side remaining for us is, that we have had the less crowded times, the less crowded places where access was possible due to much more personal effort, less "security", more perceived responsibility for our deeds.
It is still possible, at he present time, at our present age. We just have to move anticyclic - if that is the correct word. (While the modern adventurer stands in a queue to climb Everest, or crosses oceans in fleets, one can have a birdwatching safari in every park in the big cities or sail a dinghy into some lochs.)
Wear a scarf instead of a neck tie, wear vellies instead of classic welted shoes;
I have a much smaller little bear on board, rescued from the sea by a late friend of mine, he is a lousy mechanic, cook, helmsman too, but he watches over my boat.
Fair winds and good health, G
Lucky Duck
Well-known member
I’ve noted what seems to be a general drop in the a drop in the number of visitors berths available compared with, say, five years ago;
Dedicated visitor pontoons now occupied by permanent or semi permanent berth holders (East Cowes, Bucklers Hard, Littlehampton & Poole)
Given over to ‘lodges’ (Yarmouth)
Also the filling of residents berths with versadocks or chalets means that the spaces aren’t available the way they would be otherwise
Dedicated visitor pontoons now occupied by permanent or semi permanent berth holders (East Cowes, Bucklers Hard, Littlehampton & Poole)
Given over to ‘lodges’ (Yarmouth)
Also the filling of residents berths with versadocks or chalets means that the spaces aren’t available the way they would be otherwise
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Rappey
Well-known member
Im hearing a fair bit of chat about how sailing in the solent is becoming unsustainable for an increasing number. With marina visitors areas often full they seem to keep raising the prices. This in turn could affect sailing clubs and mooring operators through a decline of use due to high cost of going anywhere overnight
Our local club has a long pontoon. Today there are more spaces than boats. A few years ago it would be overflowing with boats.
steveeasy
Well-known member
Sunday when I sailed from Crinan to Oban. Against the tide and an unknown amount of fuel, I had the wind on the nose too the whole way, still was in no rush and sailed the whole way. What really bothered me was almost every other boat managed it with just the main up, now I know I’m slow, but never realised the other boats were so easy to sail in a headwind.
Steveeasy
Steveeasy