What could be done to improve the LIBS?

[JumbleDuck]

Hello, As many on here are aware I worked for NBS for 2 years in Show marketing. I don't work there any more (I left to go travelling, otherwise I probably would still work there) and I would stress that the following is purely a PERSONAL reflection on that time and the current debate. I do NOT speak on behalf of NBS. I may even be burning bridges simply by writing this.

Thank you. That's really interesting. I went to one of the cruising chute demos - by the time Mr Goode had got to "just add a twenty seventh line to control ..." (my memory may be slightly jaundiced here) I was filled with resolve never, ever to try the one which came with my boat. Which is a result, in a way.

But that's by the way. Your point about different stages of a boatie's life is spot on, and reflected in the magazines. Sure we all get a bit blasé when we read (or flick past) the thirty fifth article on MOB recovery technique or the sixteenth guide to the exotic delights of Yarmouth, but of course they are new and fresh to people who haven't sailed much. It would be interesting to know the boating experience profile of visitors. I remember filling in a survey about that at Southampton a couple of years ago, so I presume that NBS has the information, though of course it may be something they'd like to keep quiet, or share only with exhibitors.

I'm not wholly convinced that all the exhibitors are happy and meeting targets ... if they were, the show wouldn't be half the size it was a few years ago. A few years ago I spent some time trying to rescue an organisation in pretty dire financial trouble. One of the reasons for this was evident with just a little digging: they believed the 90%+of customers who said they were certain or very likely to rebook and planned accordingly. In fact the return rate was around 5%. The twin desires to please a questioner (or questionnaire) and to rationalise a previous decision are strong ...

Make no mistake, if new boats were being bought today at the same rates as they were in the heyday of Westerly etc the Show would be massive. But they aren't, so it isn't.

Couldn't agree more. Of course in those days the average new boat was probably 20' long and cost the same as a Mini. Now it's 40' long and costs the same as a Roller.

Thank you, again.

 

[Sailfree]

Whilst I was there we ran talks at LBS on the "knowledge box" completely for free. We were certain this would be hugely popular, as we were constantly told by punters and exhibitors alike that that this was what they wanted. But it was totally disheartening. We had big name boating celebs such as Tom Cunliffe, Mike Golding etc, and detailed talks on engine maintenance, winch servicing, cooking demonstrations, insurance, weather from Simon Keeling, you name it. 50 people sitting down for these talks was the exception, frequently a mere handful would turn up. And these talks were promoted in advance on the website, and heavily pushed in the email marketing, flyers were handed out on arrival etc.

"" And these talks were promoted in advance on the website, and heavily pushed in the email marketing, flyers were handed out on arrival etc."" Can you point me in the direction of the boat show website that lists exhibitors, plans to find them and any interesting events as I am unaware of such advanced information and personally think in the days of the internet a major failing. Forgive me for thinking that the NBS don't provide this info on the internet as they want to sell their programmes.

I have frequently heard complaints that punters can't plan their day in advance due to lack of info.

 

[dunedin]

Darn it Flaming! Trust you to burst the bubbles of hot air on this forum with some actual knowledge and hard facts. You spoil the game!

Agreed, really informative and insightful post - particularly the bit about remembering the person who has been lots of times has changed their needs over the time. And sounds like the Earls Court nostalgia is busted by actual attendance data.
Thanks Flaming

 

[roblpm]

"" And these talks were promoted in advance on the website, and heavily pushed in the email marketing, flyers were handed out on arrival etc."" Can you point me in the direction of the boat show website that lists exhibitors, plans to find them and any interesting events as I am unaware of such advanced information and personally think in the days of the internet a major failing. Forgive me for thinking that the NBS don't provide this info on the internet as they want to sell their programmes.

I have frequently heard complaints that punters can't plan their day in advance due to lack of info.

Couldn't agree more. The website is vague about what is going to be there and the list of boats said "to be confirmed" on most of them right up to the start.

A proper website with a map would be the way to go. Make up for the lost money on the programmes (which I didn't buy) with more info in advance. How about an app that gets you about, I wonder how accurate gps's are inside excel?!

 

[david_bagshaw]

"" And these talks were promoted in advance on the website, and heavily pushed in the email marketing, flyers were handed out on arrival etc."" Can you point me in the direction of the boat show website that lists exhibitors, plans to find them and any interesting events as I am unaware of such advanced information and personally think in the days of the internet a major failing. Forgive me for thinking that the NBS don't provide this info on the internet as they want to sell their programmes.

I have frequently heard complaints that punters can't plan their day in advance due to lack of info.

++10000
The show web site was absolutely chronic for planning a visit once inside the hall

 

[flaming]

"" And these talks were promoted in advance on the website, and heavily pushed in the email marketing, flyers were handed out on arrival etc."" Can you point me in the direction of the boat show website that lists exhibitors, plans to find them and any interesting events as I am unaware of such advanced information and personally think in the days of the internet a major failing. Forgive me for thinking that the NBS don't provide this info on the internet as they want to sell their programmes.

I have frequently heard complaints that punters can't plan their day in advance due to lack of info.

I cannot speak for this year in detail but I know that a complete list of exhibitors has always been part of the website. The problem comes in that many exhibitors have company names (that they sign the paperwork with) that are nothing to do with the product. So often people would say " I cannot see so and so boats on the website, they must not be going, I really wanted to see them so I'm not coming" whereas they were, but being exhibited by a dealer called Z marine. So unless you have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the dealership network of all the major brands the raw data is useless to you. So to get round this a form would be emailed, and I think posted, to everyone who signed up to exhibit asking for details of what it is they are exhibiting, and promising to promote them online, via social media and sometimes in direct marketing or even print adverts if appropriate, all for free. The return rate was staggeringly low. Even for the boat search part of the website we had to call many exhibitors and ask for their info just to get their boat to feature... Just about doable for the boats, not feasible for all exhibitors and all products.

I'll give you one classic example. In 2011 the owner of the boat I sail on was considering a new boat, and a specific one just launched by a fairly major manufacturer. Really cool boat, and we'd been following their website with interest about test sails etc. He asked me "will they be at the show?" I looked, and even asked the Sales department, said "I don't think so" and so he wasn't planning on coming to the show. When I arrived at the show 3 days before it opened I was looking around and thought "hang on.... Isn't that a...?" And it was. I literally frogmarched that dealer up to the media centre and made him fill in the boat finder entry right there and then. If I, as an NBS employee and someone who logged onto their website most days looking for updates didn't know the boat was at the Show, how the hell was anyone else supposed to!?

In case anyone thinks all marine companies are like this, I'm really not saying that. There are some companies, and some people, that I met whilst working for NBS who I have massive respect for. And there was a very large correlation between "companies that put the effort into marketing their presence at the Show" and "Companies who hit their targets." Not a surprise really...

In the years I worked for NBS the timetable for all of the special events, talks, pool timetable etc was all online well before the Show opened.

I really don't want to get into the issue of the show guide though. Mainly because I don't know all the details and anything I might say has the potential to cross the line from "general information and personal recollections" to "commercial information". And I'm not that person.

 

[flaming]

Agreed, really informative and insightful post - particularly the bit about remembering the person who has been lots of times has changed their needs over the time. And sounds like the Earls Court nostalgia is busted by actual attendance data.
Thanks Flaming

Thanks. Thought long and hard about posting that. Really glad that it seems to be being received in the spirit in which it was written.

 

[Mark G]

Learn from the French!

I went to the "Grand Pavois" at La Rochelle a couple of years ago. It cost around 6 or 7 Euros (not £'s) to get in. Parking was free, there was a free shuttle bus to the show from the parking and the programme was free. The cost of entry this year will be 10 Euros.

There are more boats than LIBS, nearly half of them in the water, many more smaller "affordable" boats and more visitors than LIBS.

LIBS seems to be run for maximum profit - high cost exhibition space, high cost entrance fees and costly add-ons such as parking and programmes etc. This is how the Grand Pavois is run;

Created in 1973, the Grand Pavois de La Rochelle has become one of the major events in the international boat show calendar as it has seen the number of exhibitors attending multiplied by 20 and visitor numbers 30-fold, passing the 100,000 visitor mark in 2002 to make the Grand Pavois one of the largest international in-water boat shows. 10,000 square metres of exhibition space, themed areas catering to special interests, 700 boats on show including 300 in the water, over 860 international exhibitors... The Grand Pavois boat show is the first one of the new season and once again remains faithful to its stated ambition of meeting the needs of the professionals in the business. A unique event in the European boat show world, it is worth remembering that the Grand Pavois association is run by professionals for professionals. Finally, the Grand Pavois is once again perfectly in tune with the expectations of the European market, as it highlights the genuine qualities of French products made for the export and international markets, and proves as always the wide variety, ingenuity and versatility of the small boatyards, which are still just as numerous in choosing this event born in 1973 as their annual boat show.

 

[JumbleDuck]

So often people would say " I cannot see so and so boats on the website, they must not be going, I really wanted to see them so I'm not coming" whereas they were, but being exhibited by a dealer called Z marine. So unless you have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the dealership network of all the major brands the raw data is useless to you.

I feel your pain. Last year, as I recall, quite a few of the new boats were actually being displayed by charter companies, so even knowledge of dealers wouldn't have helped much.

 

[Jamesuk]

Excel seems the perfect venue, but its too hard to get to for most, so it's in the wrong place. We need 1 decent show to replace both. Southampton is spoiled by the bridges as the site is too small. I was in West London and finished at 3 on thursday, the day it closes late. I just couldn't be bothered to make the journey because of the journey home. Its only about 35 miles from my house but London is in the way. Nice show for kent and essex residents.

Just bring it back to Earls court. I didnt go this year as it came around too quickly and although I had been holding out for an Amazon boat show offer that never came i found myself putting other items ahead of it. Such as customers needing ski clothing.

For now, thoughts on Dussledorf!

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Just bring it back to Earls court.

RTFT !

 

[st599]

Just bring it back to Earls court. I didnt go this year as it came around too quickly and although I had been holding out for an Amazon boat show offer that never came i found myself putting other items ahead of it. Such as customers needing ski clothing.

For now, thoughts on Dussledorf!

Earls Court has been sold and is being turned into posh flats.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Earls Court has been sold and is being turned into posh flats.

Still open for business at the moment and no word on when demolition might happen. Complete dump, though, and as Flaming pointed out, moving to ExCeL boosted show attendance.

 

[st599]

Still open for business at the moment and no word on when demolition might happen. Complete dump, though, and as Flaming pointed out, moving to ExCeL boosted show attendance.

Yes, but BoJo rubber stamped it's redevelopment last year. Can't be long until it goes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23175255

 

[gjbentley]

A pint of Guinness was being sold for £5-30p. Whilst a small portion of fish & chips downstairs in the waterside restaurant served on plastic plate was £7-50.

 

[Fittster]

A pint of Guinness was being sold for £5-30p. Whilst a small portion of fish & chips downstairs in the waterside restaurant served on plastic plate was £7-50.

At most events you pay more for food and drink than you would elsewhere. What would you consider the average price for a pint of Guinness in London? I'd expect to get stung for about £4 around canary wharf.

 

[BlueChip]

I just cannot understand the gripes about cost of parking and food at LBS
If you don't want to pay for parking, there is ample free street parking in Freemasons Road and side streets, just 100 yards from the main entrance over the railway bridge.
If food cost worries you then take sandwiches.
FWIW I enjoyed the show at Excel, I drive in from near Aylesbury and it takes me less than an hour round the M25 and down the M11 it really couldn't be easier.

 

[Richard Shead]

A pint of Guinness was being sold for £5-30p. Whilst a small portion of fish & chips downstairs in the waterside restaurant served on plastic plate was £7-50.

£4.80....I should know.

 

[Sailfree]

Flaming

Thanks for your informative contribution.

My criticism of the lack of advanced info is obviously not aimed at you but NBS. I noticed a number echoed my comments. In the day of the internet they MUST get advanced info out there and if necessary regularly update it. WRT companies and trade names NBS just has to insist to the exhibitors to produce a description of their stand and what "names" will be exhibited.

Advetising sells products and part of advertising is exhibitions but the reverse is also true advertising what we can see at exhibitions will sell exhibitions.

I have no experience of other countries competing boat shows so can others advise what advanced info is available on their website?

 

[lw395]

I just cannot understand the gripes about cost of parking and food at LBS
If you don't want to pay for parking, there is ample free street parking in Freemasons Road and side streets, just 100 yards from the main entrance over the railway bridge.
If food cost worries you then take sandwiches.
FWIW I enjoyed the show at Excel, I drive in from near Aylesbury and it takes me less than an hour round the M25 and down the M11 it really couldn't be easier.

I normally do take sandwiches to things like this, it saves queues as well as cash.
But £15 for lunch and a pint is hardly extreme anyway.
I didn't go because there is no great attraction in looking at a lot of boats which are either not what I'd choose, or not affordable.
I would go if I needed to research a purchase.
At least at the dinghy show you can see a great selection of racing machines that are interesting to look at, even if you have no intention of buying one.