What could be done to improve the LIBS?

JumbleDuck said:
OK, someone will find a counterexample of two, but I'll stick by the central argument.
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I won't disagree with your central argument however I will say that I thoroughly enjoyed the excel show up until last year. The manufacturers you mention were mostly long gone when I first started going to boat shows in 2008, but there was still loads to see and do.
 
haydude said:
I have never understood why they charge fees to attract customers. Perhaps the organizers haven't understood the basics of commerce. Looking at the US model, they should also provide free parking.
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According to Wiki, ExCeL's north and south halls are each 45,000m^2. From memory each is divided into eight, of which LIBS has two, so I am guessing that they have about 10,000m^2. About half of that will be taken up with aisles and so on, so perhaps 5,000m^2 of lettable space.

They seem to get about 100,000 visitors, paying perhaps £15 per head on average, so that's £1.5m ticket income. Spread that out over the lettable space and it would bump up rents by £300/sq.m

That's actually pretty low. At the last ExCeL show I did (run by a non-profit and with free admission) we paid £10,000 for 12 sq.m for four days.
 
laika said:
I won't disagree with your central argument however I will say that I thoroughly enjoyed the excel show up until last year. The manufacturers you mention were mostly long gone when I first started going to boat shows in 2008, but there was still loads to see and do.
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Fair point. I liked it when I went about five years ago - they had two halls on each side of the aisle, I think and yes, there was lots to look at. Last year was just dire. So perhaps I should have said that the absence of British builders pushing new designs is one of the factors which deters me, but not the only one.
 
I really enjoyed my day there yesterday - got a great deal on a new Rocna anchor that I'd been looking at for a while as well as a few useful extras. Also learnt a lot about antifouling from talking to a guy on a stand. Loved the local yacht club stands and class association ones too. I find Excel easy to get to - I used the cable car from N Greenwich which gave truly spectacular views yesterday. All in all, not bad at all, though it was rather busy.
 
vjmehra said:
What could be done to improve the LIBS?
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Going back to the original question...

I'd like to see some variety of boats that you can see, specifically sailing yachts, I went on all of them, bar the Southerly as I'd never buy a boat from them, and they were all identical; why they all need two wheels to steer is beyond me and wastes so much space.

I still loved the wee hovercraft.
 
Having tried a hovercraft last year for the first time, they are very cool...but a lot more work than you realise to steer, you actually have to lean into the turn a bit like a bike, otherwise you just keep going straight!
 
I say it every year, but what would improve it dramatically for me is an online map and detalis of what is on and where so that I can plan my day - or even choose what day I want to go depending on what's on.

It's not enough to merely have a pop-up shopping mall dedicated to the boat world. Online shopping has killed that requirement. I need to know who is there that I can talk to to help me make big-ticket purchasing decisions. I want to see demos, workshops and talks - see who is helpful and understanding of my requirements. It helps me make long term decisions. The best stands I attended weren't even selling anything on the day, but were there to give tech advice and this is what makes the ticket price worthwhile.

This year's show was the most enjoyable I've had for years and I think it's because I made the effort to research as much as I could in advance and book in to a couple of the talks. It was REALLY hard to do this - the info is just not readily available. I even bought a programme this year, but really needed this to be available in advance. It's almost pointless having it on the day as you need to spend a good chuck of time reading it.

I attended on two days and didn't look at a single boat. Well, not strictly true as I did board the Ovni and talk to the owners, but didn't go below instead, we talked about the windvane).
 
The clue is in the name LIBS. The I stands for International, the show competes with a lot of shows:
http://www.ifbso.com/index.php/all-shows

As a trade show, the money is in selling to volume markets, so France, Med, Germany etc are important.
We have less volume boat builders and probably less equipment makers.

As a sort of public spectacle, where the non-boating public pay good money to look at boats and buy tat, I think the world has moved on.
Also there are a great many UK leisure shows which take a slice of the market.
The Dinghy show was in good health last time I went.
As a retail show, where boating people buy discounted goods, the world has moved on.

As a showcase for new yachts to the yacht buying public, that market has probably shrunk.

I've been to excel for the show twice. I don't envisage going again.
SIBS I have been about 6 times? in 20 years. I'll go again if I've nothing much to do.
 
vjmehra said:
Having tried a hovercraft last year for the first time, they are very cool...but a lot more work than you realise to steer, you actually have to lean into the turn a bit like a bike, otherwise you just keep going straight!
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Now you know what keels (or at least centre-boards) are for, and why aeroplanes bank in turns!

Mike.
 
I like ExCel - it's large, bright and comfortable. Earles Court was a depressing dump, a real pain to get to by car and reliant on tube lines that are overloaded without having to cope with people trying to get to a popular show.

On the original topic, I think the primary problem for LIBS is the date. There are two groups of visitors to major shows - including the boat shows. One is serious potential purchasers who are researching the market and the other is people looking for a day out with little intention of buying anything. Both shows will attract the former group provided there are enough exhibitors, but a winter show is always going to find it difficult to attract the latter group. Southampton, located on the south coast and running in late summer offers an interesting day out for people with no interest in purchasing - potentially for people with little interest in boats at all. To go to London in the rain (and sometimes snow) of early January is only attractive for people that are seriously considering buying something relatively expensive in the next few months - not that many of us.
 
ChattingLil said:
I say it every year, but what would improve it dramatically for me is an online map and detalis of what is on and where so that I can plan my day - or even choose what day I want to go depending on what's on.

It's not enough to merely have a pop-up shopping mall dedicated to the boat world. Online shopping has killed that requirement. I need to know who is there that I can talk to to help me make big-ticket purchasing decisions. I want to see demos, workshops and talks - see who is helpful and understanding of my requirements. It helps me make long term decisions. The best stands I attended weren't even selling anything on the day, but were there to give tech advice and this is what makes the ticket price worthwhile.

This year's show was the most enjoyable I've had for years and I think it's because I made the effort to research as much as I could in advance and book in to a couple of the talks. It was REALLY hard to do this - the info is just not readily available. I even bought a programme this year, but really needed this to be available in advance. It's almost pointless having it on the day as you need to spend a good chuck of time reading it.

I attended on two days and didn't look at a single boat. Well, not strictly true as I did board the Ovni and talk to the owners, but didn't go below instead, we talked about the windvane).
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Well said that lady.

LIBS, in the modern era, is about talking to people about their products and seeing new products that might fit into a future boat.
 
As someone from outside of the UK I find it amusing to read many of the "wrong side of London ...no atmosphere ...expensive ...yadeya ..." arguments. I've been to the last three LIBS and last two SIBS. I also attended that brief 'return to Earls Court' boat show around 2008. Personally I'd be more inclined to flip what others have said on its head ...dump SIBS and hold LIBS at the end of the Summer. Put the big temporary marina out on the dock, and add in on-water entertainment. Access to Excel is excellent (if you actually do the research, rather than base opinions on hearsay). Food is perfectly fine. Accommodation bargains CAN be had (£60 in a 4-star immediately adjacent to Excel through lastminute .com). ...and it's London.
 
blimp said:
As someone from outside of the UK I find it amusing to read many of the "wrong side of London ...no atmosphere ...expensive ...yadeya ..." arguments. I've been to the last three LIBS and last two SIBS. I also attended that brief 'return to Earls Court' boat show around 2008. Personally I'd be more inclined to flip what others have said on its head ...dump SIBS and hold LIBS at the end of the Summer. Put the big temporary marina out on the dock, and add in on-water entertainment. Access to Excel is excellent (if you actually do the research, rather than base opinions on hearsay). Food is perfectly fine. Accommodation bargains CAN be had (£60 in a 4-star immediately adjacent to Excel through lastminute .com). ...and it's London.
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Now there's a great piece of lateral thinking.
Maybe a better idea in the Spring, say in early May.
 
Cantata said:
Maybe a better idea in the Spring, say in early May.
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Nah, 'cause nobody's buying new boats then. Even if they aren't sailing, it's too late for delivery that year.

I like the idea of having lots more hands-on activities at the London show. What about marine cookery competitions in a simulated galley, moving about as if at sea? Splicing lessons? Wiring seminars?
 
blimp said:
Personally I'd be more inclined to flip what others have said on its head ...dump SIBS and hold LIBS at the end of the Summer. Put the big temporary marina out on the dock, and add in on-water entertainment.
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Look here you - As one of the many South Coast Sailors we don't want you interfering with our show. The SIBS is put on solely for the benefit of Solent and South Coast Sailors and its timing is in conjunction with the second hand boat sales held at most nearby marinas. It is sucessful because there are so many punters and exhibitors and often gets a nice September sunny day. Now just cause the rest of you can't support a January Excel boat show that no excuse to try to ruin ours.

The number of boats, exhibitors and punters are because of its correct geograhical location and timing for us South Coast Sailors and it would be a success without you other lot anyway so keep your thieving hands off our show - there rant over!!

I do wish these minorities would just go away and join the green party or something!!
 
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Fittster said:
I don't really understand the hard to get to argument. Excel is right next to a DLR station.

I think the problem it faces is the internet. If you want to know about a product, a lot of people are going to choose google over attending a show.
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North Wales to the outposts of the empire is what it is to us!
I drove there once, stopped the night, far too expensive and a ball breaker of a drive to get there, no thanks!
Stu
 
skipper_stu said:
North Wales to the outposts of the empire is what it is to us!
I drove there once, stopped the night, far too expensive and a ball breaker of a drive to get there, no thanks!
Stu
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I drove there once, but only because I was doing a visit in Norfolk.

I don't understand why anyone would want to drive to the E side of London from S or W. It's a pain in the backside journey.
30 minutes from Waterloo or 45 minutes from Paddington or 39 minutes from Kings Cross. Cross rail (so we are told) will make it even quicker and easier.

PS It cost me £16 return from Hampshire all the way to Custom House which I thought was very reasonable. (Offpeak with a rail card)
 
Elessar said:
Err it's a show where you might want to buy things? I bought a life-raft at southampton for example.
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I've bought lots of things - including major items at boat shows. But when I've bought an engine, or a propeller etc its usually been delivered to my boat later.

I've never considered the boat show to be a place to go shopping for things at (except the few things I could carry on the train). I've always considered it a place to go and see things that I might order later.

Anyway, stand fast the liferaft, what is it that you might buy at a show that you can't carry on the train? I would never normally think of buying rope/lines etc at a boat show. The prices aren't that keen compared to online or boat jumbles.

Perhaps this explains why my thinking about Excel is so different to a lot of people?
 
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