What could be done to improve the LIBS?

[Fittster]

However there is a big chunk of London between it and its main target market. From anywhere except the Kent and Essex coast it is at least an hour longer than Earls Court with little choice but to use one inconvenient (in relation to arrival points into London) rail line or sit in rush hour traffic at both ends of your day out.

Just as an example, from Poole a coach to Earls Court was just over 2 hours and £12 return. Excel is 2 hours train (£36) then an hour and 2 changes from Waterloo. When we used to organise our club outings the coach was an extra hour which meant leaving at 7 or losing an hour in the show, plus there was nowhere else to go if you did not want to spend the whole day at the show.

I'm not sure what any boat shows main target market is. These days I'm based in the Midlands, if I'm heading into London it's a case of taking a train which dumps me at Euston. From Euston there's not much in it for either venue. A London show is certainly better than Southamption from my perspective.

Being relatively poor, new boats aren't a huge draw, the only manufacture I'd be interested in seeing at the LIBS is swallow boats and then only to see if a Bay Raiders should go on the long term radar, once depreciation has brought them into my price bracket.

The other attraction at boat shows are the chandlery stands but are prices at shows any lower than internet deals?

 

[Seven Spades]

Firstly it is too early - the first full week back after Christmas is not a good time for a show - even a couple of weeks later would be better.

Secondly - need to get the price down - at least for the visitors, and probably exhibitors too - to get the number of visitors and exhibitors back to a sustainable level.

I disagree with this. They need to reduce the price to exhibitors to fill the place with exhibitors, if there was something worth seeing the visitors would be prepared to pay. We all pay to go to Southampton and no one moans about the price. To make the show successful they need to get the place full of exhibitors, if they do that visitors will follow.

Personally I don't like the location but what are the alternatives? Earls Court is being demolished and is too small, Olympia is even smaller. The NEC would be great but are there many people north of Watford interesting is boating? There are some of course but lets face it the majority are in the south or south west. Suppose there was somewhere in Bristol would anyone go there?

 

[Resolution]

As somebody who has been involved with the Boat Show since the 1970's as both visitor and exhibitor, I think the answer is the show is past its sell by date. The market has changed and the show no longer has a significant purpose. Not only has the market for new boats shrunk, but the UK market is no longer the focus for the big builders. Contrast this with 30 years ago when the UK builders (and component manufacturers) were a dominant force, the show was a true international showcase. Its location in Earls Court was far more accessible, and for visitors also gave easy access to other attractions. This applied to both domestic and international visitors. Remember the queues of coaches dropping off club parties - wives taking the tube to the west end, husbands into the show and meeting up at the end of the day. For those staying over a huge range of accommodation and night life was accessible using the tube for transport.

From an exhibitor's point of view, once the power of the unions had been clipped it was an easy place to work and with a much wider choice of different kinds of stands and variety of attractions. Much lower costs and again greater choice for after hours activities.

Many of the things suggested to revitalise the show have been tried or proposed in previous surveys, but the reality is that cost for exhibitors is so high, they cannot justify being there. Even the companies that used to more than cover their costs by direct sales can no longer make it pay. The builders (except for a small number of MOBO builders) no longer sell large numbers of boats in the UK and most now use dealer networks so concentrate their sales effort closer to potential customers.

There are, of course pockets of the industry that still see value in the show as a suitable means of serving their market, but they are small and do not justify a show the size of the current one. So, as the big attractions pull out, the number of visitors falls, the level of business drops, more exhibitors withdraw and you end up with an unattractive show.

Agree, the London show is past its sell by date. Let's move on.

 

[john_morris_uk]

However there is a big chunk of London between it and its main target market. From anywhere except the Kent and Essex coast it is at least an hour longer than Earls Court with little choice but to use one inconvenient (in relation to arrival points into London) rail line or sit in rush hour traffic at both ends of your day out.

Just as an example, from Poole a coach to Earls Court was just over 2 hours and £12 return. Excel is 2 hours train (£36) then an hour and 2 changes from Waterloo. When we used to organise our club outings the coach was an extra hour which meant leaving at 7 or losing an hour in the show, plus there was nowhere else to go if you did not want to spend the whole day at the show.

I don't know where you get 'an hour and two changes from'. I did the journey yesterday in 30 minutes and one change (Canning Town)

My tube line App gives 27 minutes for Waterloo to Custom House and 20 minutes for Waterloo to Earls Court. The 'too far and it's the wrong side of London' and therefore too far argument is more in the mind than fact.

 

[Resolution]

Just as an example, from Poole a coach to Earls Court was just over 2 hours and £12 return. Excel is 2 hours train (£36) then an hour and 2 changes from Waterloo. When we used to organise our club outings the coach was an extra hour which meant leaving at 7 or losing an hour in the show, plus there was nowhere else to go if you did not want to spend the whole day at the show.

Tranona it's time you took a guide to help you round London. From Waterloo I take the Jubilee line to Canning Town, change onto the DLR, two stops to Excel. Takes 30 to 40 minutes max.

Curses! Lakesailored!

 

[Steersman]

I think what the organisers don't understand is how difficult it is if you don't know London and live to the west.

We live in half way between Bristol and London, and when the show was at Earls Court we could drive there in an hour.

Then when it moved to the Exel, I went by train. It took an hour and a half to get to Paddington, then another hour and a half by tube. That's 6 hours of travelling for a day out.

More recently I have taken to driving and it takes me an hour and a half to drive round the M25, and down the M11. What a run around.

If you live further west, such as Bristol, or Exeter or Cardiff then the additional journey time must be definite turn off.

Have the organisers considered the Olympia?

 

[john_morris_uk]

I think what the organisers don't understand is how difficult it is if you don't know London and live to the west.

We live in half way between Bristol and London, and when the show was at Earls Court we could drive there in an hour.

Then when it moved to the Exel, I went by train. It took an hour and a half to get to Paddington, then another hour and a half by tube. That's 6 hours of travelling for a day out.

More recently I have taken to driving and it takes me an hour and a half to drive round the M25, and down the M11. What a run around.

If you live further west, such as Bristol, or Exeter or Cardiff then the additional journey time must be definite turn off.

Have the organisers considered the Olympia?

We have lived near Plymouth and now near Exeter. SWMBO and I used to have a weekend in London and take in the LIBS on the Saturday and a show in the evening.

Arriving by train at Paddington my Tube Line App says that it's 10 minutes by tube to Earls Court and an extra 36 minutes to Custom House. I agree its 46 minutes which is longer, but that's not the hour and a half quoted!

 

[Lucky Duck]

If you can wait four years or so, then with Crossrail the journey times should be around half that.

 

[Steersman]

We have lived near Plymouth and now near Exeter. SWMBO and I used to have a weekend in London and take in the LIBS on the Saturday and a show in the evening.

Arriving by train at Paddington my Tube Line App says that it's 10 minutes by tube to Earls Court and an extra 36 minutes to Custom House. I agree its 46 minutes which is longer, but that's not the hour and a half quoted!

Hi John

It was a few years ago when I made the journey by train, and I vowed never again. But, from what you say, it looks like they've improved the Tube time tabling since then, so maybe it's not such a big issue.

However as a non Londoners, having the Boat show on the other side of the city puts me off going. I went last year, but I'm giving it a miss this year.

 

[laika]

They need to reduce the price to exhibitors to fill the place with exhibitors, if there was something worth seeing the visitors would be prepared to pay.

Agree. It needs to be affordable for small to medium marine businesses. I say that as a visitor, not a potential exhibitor. It's the range of companies at southampton which makes it better. I'm not interested in "entertainment" although good talks and demonstrations are always good. I gather there were some this year but there should have been a board up or something: I had no idea about them (because I'm too stingy to buy the programme?).

Maybe cut out the free and discounted tickets they give to exhibitors and lower the price for them to exhibit? After all, when the numbers fall the organisers are always going on about how it's not numbers that count but quality: how "serious" the visitors are. The serious ones will presumably buy a ticket (or Sunseeker etc. will buy one for them...).

Couldn't they make more use of the dock for exhibiting? I'm sure they did in previous years. And it must reduce exhibitor costs bringing a boat by water rather than road even if building temporary pontoons would add to overheads.

Excel is right next to an airport, a train line, loads of bus routes and the DLR. Most importantly it's on a bit of water which is accessible to sea-going craft with masts which neither the NEC nor Olympia were last time I looked

 

[Koeketiene]

I think before you can work out how to improve something, you first have to establish what the purpose of the thing is.

What is the London Boat Show for?

Pete

It's where the City goes/went to spend it's X-Mas bonus.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Arriving by train at Paddington my Tube Line App says that it's 10 minutes by tube to Earls Court and an extra 36 minutes to Custom House. I agree its 46 minutes which is longer, but that's not the hour and a half quoted!

One of the problems with the DLR is that journey times can be very, very variable. I work at a big show at Excel every two years, and the traffic there in the morning is so great that you can easily wait 30+ minutes for a boardable train at Canning Town. The DLR used to run direct trains from Bank to Excel for the Boat Show, but I guess it's just not big enough to attract the custom any more.

So here, chickabiddies, is Uncle JumbleDuck's infallible tip for getting to Excel:

Take the Jubilee Line to North Greenwich, then take the Emirates Air Line across the river, then walk.

I've spent a fair amount of time experimenting, and this is by far the fastest way to do it. The Air Line ticket adds to the cost, but is cheaper if you have a Day Travelcard on your Oystercard, and the walk at the north side is five minutes if that to the west door of Excel.

It's also fun.

 

[Bilgediver]

I don't know where you get 'an hour and two changes from'. I did the journey yesterday in 30 minutes and one change (Canning Town)

My tube line App gives 27 minutes for Waterloo to Custom House and 20 minutes for Waterloo to Earls Court. The 'too far and it's the wrong side of London' and therefore too far argument is more in the mind than fact.

Try it on a Sunday when lines are closed without warning for maintenance and Taxis from Stratford are cashing in!!!!!!! Been there got the Tee shirt!

 

[dunedin]

The reason the LBS will always struggle is Location, location, location. IMHO move it West or to the Midlands and it would be a winner.

I really don't get this fixation with Excel being a poor location. The London contingent seem to think that 20 or so minutes on the DLR, which goes directly to the door, is far too taxing for them. Moving to the Midlands would mean none of them would go - they don't seem to have the stamina of those of us who have to make multi-day trips to go to either London or Southampton shows.
London City Airport being right next door to Excel has been very handy in my experience.

But the root issues seem to be that
(a) the costs of exhibiting at a 9-10 day show are very high - stand, moving boats, staffing, accommodation
(b) the returns are moderate
so it gets into a downward spiral.

 

[bedouin]

I disagree with this. They need to reduce the price to exhibitors to fill the place with exhibitors, if there was something worth seeing the visitors would be prepared to pay. We all pay to go to Southampton and no one moans about the price. To make the show successful they need to get the place full of exhibitors, if they do that visitors will follow.

Personally I don't like the location but what are the alternatives? Earls Court is being demolished and is too small, Olympia is even smaller. The NEC would be great but are there many people north of Watford interesting is boating? There are some of course but lets face it the majority are in the south or south west. Suppose there was somewhere in Bristol would anyone go there?

Yes - I know Earls Court is being demolished, but it isn't/wasn't too small for a show of the size LIBS has become - maybe not as much room for the mega yachts but plenty for the majority.

I didn't go this year, but last year there was barely enough at the show to keep me interested for 2 hours (apart from the bar of course) so the £20 entry fee is just too steep - particularly for casual visitors.

If you get more visitors in then the exhibitors will be happy to pay to be there - without visitors you could give the space away and still not fill it - it must cost a lot more to attend the show than just the cost of the stand

 

[Twister_Ken]

How to improve LIBS?

Topless hostesses and lots of them.

Problem solved.

 

[roblpm]

About 20 people moaning about how hard it is to get there.

One person pointing out why in 2018 it will all change.

CROSSRAIL
CROSSRAIL
CROSSRAIL

Dont quote me as i cant be bothered to look it up again but:

12 trains an hour
15 minutes to Tottenham Court Road (maybe 20 to Paddington)
40 minutes to Heathrow

Its going to change everything!!!

So access will not be an issue, so if it manages to survive the catchment will be multiplied by a factor of something (more than one!!)

 

[Richard Shead]

As a huge fan of excel and having worked every show there ( boat wise) since built I feel qualified to answer.

Quite simply it's a diddle to get there until ... Engineering works on a weekend. When that happens the whole network regardless of location goes wrong.

Two hours Twickenham tonight .. That's not an ExCel prob it's a London thing .. As for earls court I would love to be behind the wheel of the first bulldozer !

 

[nimbusgb]

I don't really understand the hard to get to argument. Excel is right next to a DLR station.

I think the problem it faces is the internet. If you want to know about a product, a lot of people are going to choose google over attending a show.

Earls Court had rail, busses, car parking and taxis, all at reasonable rates.

Parking a car for £15 so that you can pay £20 to look at advertising, paying £5 for a regular beer and £7 for a sandwich is all part of the challenge.

 

[Richard Shead]

Earls Court had rail, busses, car parking and taxis, all at reasonable rates.

Parking a car for £15 so that you can pay £20 to look at advertising, paying £5 for a regular beer and £7 for a sandwich is all part of the challenge.

When was the last time you went to Earls Court ? December ski show was 15 quid for four hours parking ! Beer was over five ...