What boat to buy?

[Jan van Rensburg]

New on this forum, first of many posts I am sure. I want to buy my first boat, been sailing dingies and hobi cats as a young man, now time for a bigger boat.
Will keep it on Suffolk coast and want a boat to cross to Europe and even venture further south. ..
What size boat can handle this? Where is good to look for pre-owned boats?

 

[slawosz]

Hello!
I would ask to be more specific. What is your budget and idea aboat boat size etc etc. You could get low budget 27 ft folkboat derivative like Albin Vega or Contessa 27 then some solid 32 - 34 ft like Fulmar or some Moody or newish Bavaria Cruiser type.
If I would have those requirements now, on lower budget I would get Albin Ballad, on higher something like Dehler 32. I prefer smaller boats as costs grow rapidly with size.

 

[Jan van Rensburg]

Hello!
I would ask to be more specific. What is your budget and idea aboat boat size etc etc. You could get low budget 27 ft folkboat derivative like Albin Vega or Contessa 27 then some solid 32 - 34 ft like Fulmar or some Moody or newish Bavaria Cruiser type.
If I would have those requirements now, on lower budget I would get Albin Ballad, on higher something like Dehler 32. I prefer smaller boats as costs grow rapidly with size.

Thanks for the reply. I want something big enough to safely cross the English Channel and carry a family of 4. We would mainly do coastal sailing/day sailing. Don’t think I will attempt an overnight passage, but maybe in future…so not really sure what a safe boat size is to go for.
I looked at Bavaria Cruiser earlier, seems to be great boat….a budget of ideally not more than £40,000 does limit the wishlist though!

 

[Tranona]

Enormous range of possibilities as your requirements are probably the biggest single sector of the market. Look at boats in the 30-35' size range. Nobody can tell you what boat to buy - if you ask 10 people you will probably get 20 replies - the boats they own and the ones they lust after.

You have ample budget to get a good boat, although the current market is a bit frenetic and not the volume of boats on the market that there was in the past. Key to narrowing down the range of choices is where you are planning to keep it as the east coast has places where the water is thin and draft may be an issue if you are going to use a swinging mooring. There is no substitute for web browsing using big listing sites like Yachtworld and Yachtmarket to see what is available that you like the look of, then viewing. You have to recognise that the boats you can afford are typically 20 or more years old so will not be "perfect", so condition is a key factor, particularly expensive items like sails, engines upholstery, electronics. There is merit in looking at "modern" boats like the Bavaria because they were generally better equipped than older boats so are likely to be found in a more turn key condition. £40k would get you an early 2000s Bav 32 or 34 or similar from Beneteau or Jeanneau as well as slightly older British built boats like the Moody 31 or Hunter Channel.

Good luck with your search.

 

[Stemar]

draft may be an issue if you are going to use a swinging mooring

A lifting keel that can take the ground (some can't) or bilge keels are a definite asset on the East Coast, though plenty do manage with a fin.

 

[johnalison]

If you have dinghy experience, then handling a cruiser should present few problems, but owning and managing a boat in the 30’ range is quite an undertaking and you may end up with a boat that doesn’t fill all your expectations. We sailed North Sea and Channel quite happily with teenage children in boats of 26 and 29 feet and the costs and effort involved were much less than my current 10m boat. Unless you are averse to the idea of changing boats, I would be thinking about something around 28-30 feet, maybe a Moody 30 or such like. This will be fine for sea sailing if not luxurious, and then if your ambitions for more comfort or greater distance look like being realised, then change to a boat in the mid 30’ range.

 

[Concerto]

For comfort, your budget will certainly give you a wide choice in the 30 to 35ft range but there is no simple answer as to what to buy. The variables are you have to decide on will help narrow the choice. How new, what type of keel, etc. but all boats in this size range will be able to do what you are asking for.

Firstly your budget. How rigid is the £40,000? In this are you allowing for the costs associated with buying like survey and possibly a lift out, then what type of mooring do you want as a marina berth will cost abou £4,000 per year or a mooring will cost about £700 but you will need a tender and outboard, plus somewhere to store them. Do not forget you have insurance to pay as well, at about £300. Then you will need wet weather gear including sailing shoes, boots, oil skins, life jackets, safety harnesses, etc. which can easily set you back another couple of thousand. As you will be buying a secondhand boat, there may be some things that need attention like an engine service and antifouling, the cost will depend on how good you are at DIY and how much time you have.

If you have already allowed for all of the above expenses, then look at boats up to £45,000. This web site can be quite good and I have set some parameters for you. Yachts for sale UK, used yachts, new sailing yacht sales, free photo ads - Apollo Duck It covers the whole of the UK, but you would be wise to try buying locally on the East Coast, otherwise you will have delivery costs to consider.

A good local agent is Clarke and Carter, but they have little to sell at present. Sail Boats for sale - UK and international professional boat brokers Good second hand boats are selling very quickly due to Covid restricting overseas travel, so have a chat with them as they may know about a boat that has not yet been listed but will appear shortly.

Do not rush the buying process, but be very active and look at plenty of boats as one will certainly seem right for you. Try and avoid a boat that looks unloved as you will probably find plenty of small things requiring immediate attention. If you have specific questions on a particular boat, try asking on an owners association forum (not forgetting their for sale pages either). Always try and buy the boat in the best condition, even if it costs a bit more, as it will work out cheaper in the long run and you will spend more time sailing rather than fixing.

Being an East Coast sailor but Medway based, I know most of the locations where you could berth. The Orwell has easy access at all tidal states, whereas the Deben is restricted to roughly half tide. You could also consider many of the other local places. You will find a copy of East Coast Pilot very worthwhile to have during your buying process and to keep onboard.

8 years ago I was in a similar position to you as I was returning to sailing after a 21 year break due to work and family pressures. What to buy is a daunting task, but at least I knew a lot about different boats. I eventually settled on a Westerly Fulmar and it took me 4 months to find one I wanted to buy, but condition was fine regarding most equipment , however it look tired. At that time the most expensive one was close to £40,000, but most were about £25,000. I spent a little less than that but estimated it would cost £12,000 to get it the way I wanted. Well I have now spend about £26,000 and she is almost like a new boat bur 41 years old now. I did all the work myself and I have been sailing as well over this period. Tranona has recently sold a modern boat and bought a similar age boat and is planning to spend a lot on getting it the way he wants.

If you are interested in what I have done to my Fulmar then have a look at these links.
https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/images/3/3f/Concerto.pdf

Best of luck in your search. If you have more questions do come back and ask away, you will get plenty of advice here but you will have to sort out the wheat from the chaff as you need to realise who provides good and right advice.

 

[slawosz]

I think Fulmar or Moody bilge keel is the excellent first boat for the budget.

Firstly your budget. How rigid is the £40,000? In this are you allowing for the costs associated with buying like survey and possibly a lift out, then what type of mooring do you want as a marina berth will cost abou £4,000 per year or a mooring will cost about £700 but you will need a tender and outboard, plus somewhere to store them. Do not forget you have insurance to pay as well, at about £300. Then you will need wet weather gear including sailing shoes, boots, oil skins, life jackets, safety harnesses, etc. which can easily set you back another couple of thousand. As you will be buying a secondhand boat, there may be some things that need attention like an engine service and antifouling, the cost will depend on how good you are at DIY and how much time you have.

Quoting as it is very important. The bigger the boat the more expenses. The question is how much your family is keen on sailing?
The good idea would be looking for boat with recently changed engine, where circumstances forced sale. Apparently at present, those boats are not easy to find on the market.

Thanks for the reply. I want something big enough to safely cross the English Channel and carry a family of 4. We would mainly do coastal sailing/day sailing. Don’t think I will attempt an overnight passage, but maybe in future…so not really sure what a safe boat size is to go for.

As @johnalison mentioned, and I have to repeat myself, as the owner of small boat size is not that much of importance as a technical condition. You could start in something like Sadler 25 or Westerly Centaur, and decide what to do next.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Are we going to start a sweep stake for the day Concerto replies to a post without linking his video?

 

[lustyd]

Well I have now spend about £26,000

More important to explaining the true cost is how much time was spent. 8 years and £51k to get a 41 year old boat in good condition compared to my 2 weeks and £50k for a 20 year old boat in immaculate condition.
OP might find that time is better spent on the water if the trip is to have half a chance of success so it's worth fully understanding the proposition.

 

[Concerto]

Are we going to start a sweep stake for the day Concerto replies to a post without linking his video?

You may have seen it before but new forum members probably have not seen it and could find it useful and informative. Whereas your comment does not include any useful information for the OP.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

You may have seen it before but new forum members probably have not seen it and couold find it useful and informative. Whereas your comment does not include any useful information for the OP.

Or it may just be self promotion.

 

[steveeasy]

Or it may just be self promotion.

Touched a nerve has it. Very funny.

 

[fredrussell]

Thanks for the reply. I want something big enough to safely cross the English Channel and carry a family of 4…

What age are your children? If they are (or soon will be) of an age where sharing a cabin is undesirable, I’d be looking for an aft cabin boat. Boarding platform would be nice to have too.

 

[V1701]

For your budget I think Apolloduck might be the best site - most brokers list there and it has private seller listings whereas most of the other sites do not. Go for the boat that meets your requirements that has the newest engine, sails, standing rigging, bunk cushions, electronics. You'll probably have to be patient and on the ball checking regularly for new listings for reasons already described but for £40k it's very possible to get a good boat that will fulfill your requirements. I'd suggest late 20's to early 30's feet (below 10m for less expensive berthing/mooring). Have a pre-purchase survey and somewhere to keep it lined up before you pull the trigger and good luck...

Personally I like Scandi built boats for their quality, etaps and Sadlers for their double skins, one here for less than half your budget with a newish engine...

 

[Jan van Rensburg]

Enormous range of possibilities as your requirements are probably the biggest single sector of the market. Look at boats in the 30-35' size range. Nobody can tell you what boat to buy - if you ask 10 people you will probably get 20 replies - the boats they own and the ones they lust after.

You have ample budget to get a good boat, although the current market is a bit frenetic and not the volume of boats on the market that there was in the past. Key to narrowing down the range of choices is where you are planning to keep it as the east coast has places where the water is thin and draft may be an issue if you are going to use a swinging mooring. There is no substitute for web browsing using big listing sites like Yachtworld and Yachtmarket to see what is available that you like the look of, then viewing. You have to recognise that the boats you can afford are typically 20 or more years old so will not be "perfect", so condition is a key factor, particularly expensive items like sails, engines upholstery, electronics. There is merit in looking at "modern" boats like the Bavaria because they were generally better equipped than older boats so are likely to be found in a more turn key condition. £40k would get you an early 2000s Bav 32 or 34 or similar from Beneteau or Jeanneau as well as slightly older British built boats like the Moody 31 or Hunter Channel.

Good luck with your search.

 

[PMJD]

We had an Etap 28i for 30 years. There is a large double in the rear for adults and a V berth where you could put two kids. We sailed twice to Netherlands from the East Coast, and crossed the channel Portsmouth Cherbourg many times. There will be plenty of readers who have done it in smaller boats. So a sub 30 foot boat that you are prepared to live with can certainly do the miles. The bigger issue is how small or big and how well fitted out your chosen boat is. There are lots of choices.

Other contributors have also suggested that you need to consider essential accessories. Offshore, certainly a liferaft with a family. They are expensive to service and older ones cannot be serviced easily. I would also invest in new lifejackets, and budget for all new flares/electronic flares, etc.

Knowing how to service the equipment on board is important. You need to be able to replace an impellor that self destructs while you are at sea. Old poorly maintained engines are very expensive to replace.

Trust that helps a little.

 

[ianat182]

Are you sure that all members of your family are as keen on sailing-have they done any , and how old are they. They are going to be expected to do at least competent crew level before you don't have to shout or correct every action. Catering too takes some getting used to on longer cruises between stops.
Yachts of about 25-33 ft are normally a stable platform so sea sickness is another consideration and often when rougher weather confines crew to the cabin
A Moody yacht would be large enough from about 33-35ft, but prices start from about £35-40K from 31ft ; an older Westerly with centre cockpit and aft accomodation like a Seahawk, or similar, may be a prospect too.
Your choice of say, Bavaria sounds OK but there are many that have been charter boats in the Med so well-used and needing new sails at least.
I'd suggest that a charter for the family might be a good starting point to fine tune your options in family accomodation , keenness and eliminating a choice before committing that fair budget to an untried option. The boats built these days all seem to be aimed at the 34ft plus new models - still with desireable kit to be bought on top of the purchase price so needs thinking about.
There will be other opinions here so listen to most, they usually mean well !!


ianat182

 

[Stemar]

What age are your children? If they are (or soon will be) of an age where sharing a cabin is undesirable, I’d be looking for an aft cabin boat. Boarding platform would be nice to have too.

Unless they're very young, I'd say that rules out the Sadler 32. The head is practically in the forepeak. To my mind, s proper toilet with a door would be a must.

As for crossing the Channel, pretty much any boat that would take four in reasonable comfort would cope. I did it in a Snapdragon 24. Apart from the excitement of arriving at a foreign port, if a trip like that is getting exciting, you're doing it wrong!

 

[James_Calvert]

When we first had our Sadler 32, we had 3 kids aged 3,5 and 7 and 4 adults on board on our summer cruise from the Medway to Normandy.

Kids slept in the forepeak, the grown ups in the main cabin. Later we'd have a couple of teenagers in the forepeak, no problem.

Our loo has a stout zipped enclosure to the forepeak and a door into the main cabin. Adequate privacy and quite spacious. But we make good use of shore facilities when we can, and have a care about when and how we use the on board loo.

She's a lovely boat to sail too.