What boat for a newbie solo sailor?

[MissFitz]

Looking for advice for a friend who's thinking of buying a boat. He's done a lot of crewing but not much skippering so far, so wants something small & simple that he can learn to sail on his own fairly quickly (he's happy to fork out for several weekends of own-boat tuition etc).

He says he'd prefer comfort & solidity to speed, & would like a small cabin so he can stay overnight, & a basic heads/galley if possible.

What would anyone recommend? And how easy would it be for him to learn to sail solo from a standing start?

All advice very much appreciated, thank you.

 

[FullCircle]

The starting point is the budget..... let us know what he is thinking of, and we can suggest to suit. Also, the cruising area helps too.

 

[Searush]

Tell your pal - Teach yourself sailing is not impossible, but fraught with risk - to yourself, the boat & most importantly all the expensive boats around you!

Sail with a pal who can initially, join a club & crew. There is so much you need to know about tides, charts, route planning, weather, col regs, anchoring etc etc etc. The sailing is only a small part of it.

If you must self teach, get a mirror dinghy & sail on a lake first. Then move on to a sheltered inlet/ sea loch with small tides. Read a lot, get the RYA correspondence course books from the library. When you are only having a couple of minor incidents each trip, then you should be able to sell the battered remains of the Mirror Dink for half what you paid & look for a small Corribee, Foxcub, Leisure or similar.

Buy an old copy of Bristow's book of Yachts off Amazon & read all the ads in PBO & Boating & Outboards. Then, when you have homed in on a couple, visit the Owners' website.

Drascombes make a lovely daysailor that acts & feels like a proper yacht, but they are not cheap. Go kick a few tyres in boatyards & chat to people in harbours.

Wish him luck, there is a Guardian Angel assigned to fools & novices, but he is VERY busy & may miss the critical "event" /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[MissFitz]

[ QUOTE ]
The starting point is the budget..... let us know what he is thinking of, and we can suggest to suit. Also, the cruising area helps too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Budget not an issue, altho cheaper is better so he won't be fussing about it. He'll be based in the Solent, possibly in Chichester Harbour (plenty of room to learn), & will be looking for a sailing club to join.

Searush - he has got his day skipper, & sailed a lot in his youth with his father. But that's kind of what I was getting at - is there something between a dinghy & a proper cruiser, some sort of nice easy day-sailor with no mod cons?

 

[FullCircle]

Squib with a lid - a Hunter Europa. Fast and stable.

 

[gregandginas]

[ QUOTE ]
Tell your pal - Teach yourself sailing is not impossible, but fraught with risk - to yourself, the boat & most importantly all the expensive boats around you!

[/ QUOTE ]I've no quibble with the idea of learning in a dingy... but I'd hate to see anyone put off by that advice.

I don't see why ANYONE should be at sea without a good grasp of theory: shorebased yachmaster is pretty noddy (albeit time consuming) for anyone with a head for that sort of thing.... and with sufficient reading about good seamanship any skipper capable of learning from others should know what to do in any situation that might develop even if he or she hasn't ever encountered anything like it before.

The key trick then seems to me to be working hard to ensure that you actually gain from your practical experience: lots fo so-called "experienced" sailors (sometimes with decades of regular sailing behind them) actually just have the same, very limited experience repeated a many times over... whereas taking a veteran as "crew" on a handful of genuinely testing outings could see a novice gain far, far more in the way of genuinely MEANINGFUL experience.

A lot would seem to me to depend on the individual in question: some learn best as apprentices at the feet of masters.... but that's not right for everyone!

 

[Searush]

I completely agree. I was trying to ensure that a complete novice didn't think they could buy a boat & learn to sail with no understanding of the theories. It does happen, just ask any Welsh harbourmaster about the "Birmingham Navy"

Op did not mention any theory knowledge in his initial post.

I am largely self taught - but got the basics in the Sea Scouts sailing dinghies on lakes. When I bought my first couple of boats, the sellers kindly gave me some tips on rigging & sailing their particular craft. With my first yacht, the former owner "crewed" my 40mile ,maiden delivery trip. I learnt a lot from him. I have also crewed on a racing yacht & a Square rigger - all good learning experiences. And yes, when things inevitably go "tits up" there are always lessons to learn. At my age, the problem becomes remembering it all. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Searush]

So the issue is not new to sailing, but new to "Solo Sailing"!

Completely different issues. Small dinghy sized yachts behave like dinghies & are very responsive, but all controls are ready to hand and light to use. However, large boats can be better for single-handing (mine is 32' and often sailed solo) if the controls are ready to hand. Big boats carry their way & tend to be predictable. You have time to leave the wheel to put the kettle on, adjust the sails, rig fenders & warps etc.

I still say, go out with another sailor & watch them singlehand, then try it yourself with owner to hand to help if necessary. Hang about in harbours & watch singlehanders as they come & go - lots of tricks to learn there - you will also see what doesn't work from time to time. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[monkfish24]

I'm in the same boat as your friend (ba dum tish!) i've recently been looking at my first boat and i'm thinking about settling on a jaguar 22 (you may have seen my post) or the hunter europa, both offer enough accomodation for me on my own for a couple of days but both are small enought to put into coves and the south west coast is full of nice little places like that.

My sailing experience is largely made up of yacht racing in boats smaller than 26ft on river and offshore for about 7 years. Something that is capable of being sailed on my own as well as entertaining a small crew is paramount, hence the two i'm keen on.

Another small yacht that is surprisingly nice to sail, handles well and thanks to the water ballast is not too tippy is the Macgregor 26c ( i hear gasps!) the sailing version, it's roomy down below and has lots of storage space, is light as a feather for towing and is so simply rigged you can get on with the sailing rather than worrying about wether the cunningham was the correct tightness or if there was enough prebend in the rig. It was the first yacht my father bought and it was excellent for that purpose.

 

[gregandginas]

[ QUOTE ]
And yes, when things inevitably go "tits up" there are always lessons to learn. At my age, the problem becomes remembering it all. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]LOL - I can identify with that one... and having a four year old and a diabetic dog with cateracts and no love of sailing to grapple with tends to scramble both the sleep patterns needed to think straight AND the clear focus on priorities... so I'm not underestimating the scope for ANYONE to screw up in some way shape or form no matter how much theory they've grasped.

I heard only recently that in decades of experience, once coastguard had only ever heard ONE distress call made correctly...and that came from an off-duty instructor!

A lots will always boil down (in a lot of areas other than sailing) to doing under pressure what you would have known you should do in a less pressured situation... and I'm not sure theory OR experience are as important as temperament on that front!

Getting back on topic... I'd suggest something that handles well rather than a heavy, floating caravan...

 

[TiggerToo]

An old folkboat?

 

[bluemoongaffer]

My advice would be to go for a boat with an inboard diesel or an outboard in a well in the cockpit - something easy to start and use if needed in a hurry. A Shrimper or Hunter would be good options for Chichester Harbour.

 

[Master_under_Dog]

He shouldn't overlook the Trapper TS240 which is a 23 foot trailer sailer with a lifting keel. I am just learning how to sail mine single handed and it is pretty forgiving of my mistakes but is quick and responsive. There are already some examples in Chichester Harbour.

Mine has a heads with a curtain round it for privacy. The galley slides away under the cockpit when not needed and I have cooked some hearty stews on its two burner Origo meths stove. With the galley stowed there are four berths, two in the forepeak and two in the main cabin.

The engine is an outboard in the cockpit well. Many owners stow the engine in the cockpit locker when not in use as it improves speed by anything up to a knot.

The mast can be lowered by one person, although it is easier with two and she is a genuine trailer sailer. And no, mine is not for sale.

Michael

 

[cgull]

Jaguar 21 or 24!

 

[jenku]

Well, I've had an old folkboat and while it was a very nice boat (although leaking from all directions) I did not find it especially easy to single-hand. As the mast was wooden, the mainsail tended to stick and was difficult to get up and the outboard being far away it was difficult to control while steering at the same time.

Wouldn't recommend it for a first boat actually.

 

[Ubergeekian]

[ QUOTE ]
Looking for advice for a friend who's thinking of buying a boat. He's done a lot of crewing but not much skippering so far, so wants something small & simple that he can learn to sail on his own fairly quickly (he's happy to fork out for several weekends of own-boat tuition etc).

[/ QUOTE ]
There are loads of small, good sailing boats which would fit the bill. Off the top of my head ... Hunter 490, Hunter 19, Hunter Europa, Leisure 17, Westerly Nomad, Westerly Jouster (yay!), Corribee, Drascombe whatever-the-ones-with-cabins-are, Cornish Crabber ...
Anything that size is easy to sail. If he can handle a dinghy he'll have no problem.

 

[Neddie_Seagoon]

My introduction to sailing was a Competent Crew course as an experiment with my balance problems. I enjoyed it so much I bought an old 27' long keel yacht to "practice" on by myself (because I am billy no mates), which was terrifying at first but fine after a couple of outings. I upgraded this to a 28', which I think is about the optimum for comfortable single-handed day sailing unless you have an easy mooring and open waters. Big enough to be comfortable, sleep on, take friends out etc, but light and manageable enough for single-handing. So I'd be pointing your friend in the direction of something similar - under 30', sound but not in the first flush of youth. A Hurley 24/70 would tick all the boxes. Comfortable, sailable, robust.

Roller furling foresail and an autopilot would be a good idea, I have the latter but not the former and I cope. All lines back to cockpit has to be preferable.

If he's already got dazed kipper then he shouldn't need much help going solo, I assume he knows how boats work. Buy a suitable sort of staid boat and get a mate or instructor to go out with him a couple of times - first time they sail together, so he can get the feel of the boat, second time the mate is just a passenger unless absolutely needed, and then out solo in lighter airs to develop a cockpit routine. For me this is the essential part - tacking, gybing, getting on and off the berth are all straighforward single-handed if you have a routine - e.g. to tack: prepare the new foresail sheet ready on the winch, bring the head round, let out the foresail sheet as she comes into the wind, ease the boom across and establish the new tack, haul in the new foresail sheet, grab the tiller again and off you go. One you have done them a few times each manoeuvre becomes automatic, and on a manageable boat easier than telling crew what to do.

Golden rules: Lifejacket with harness, safety line, jackstays, clip on at all times, good handheld radio clipped on to harness at all times, and never overpower the boat. Might want a Personal EPIRB for reassurance.

FWIW

 

[arfa]

I do most of my sailing in and around Chichester harbour and can vouch for it as a great place to sail in most conditions. My only word of caution is that it does get very busy on sunny weekends and going solo down a narrow channel with boats moored either side and a dinghy race coming towards you can be testing at the best of times..... (this is not a colregs troll).
There are all sorts of great small boats for sailing in this type of area, my own choice was a beneteau first 211 which is effectively a big dinghy with a lid. Its responsive fun, easy to singlehand and has a bit of zip. Importantly for Chichester, it has a lift keel which you can wind up when you get it wrong /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Anyway, it is well worth a look if you can fins somewhere to keep
it.
For sailing clubs click this link web page
They're all different and worth a look - enjoy !

 

[ianat182]

My option would be for a Westerly Pageant 23ft,solid ,stable,and strongly built yet good sailer;usually furling jib,large enough for week-ending for two, and predictable.
A deck you can walk around ,with shallow draft/bilge keels.Inboard engine. Add an Autohelm and you would get her for about £9-10 grand. Survey and Insurance, say £400.
Depending on where you live mooring charges are affordable , even in marinas, and the learning curve on mooring and anchoring will be straightforward.
The move up from a Pageant will be pretty good too as they hold their price very well.
A view of the Westerly Owners forum will give even more information.
ianat182 /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[MissFitz]

Thanks everyone, very helpful advice, I'll pass it on.

Searush - I've just put a pic up so I wouldn't be mistaken for a bloke! Clearly it's not working, will go look for one in a bikini...... /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif