What are the rules for holding tanks across Europe ?

[30sqm]

Hi, excuse me if I'm asking the same old question, but I'm new to this website forum and still have to find my way around.

My situation is that I'm refitting a 1972 Aristocat Catamaran to be a liveaboard, with the intent of cruising around Britain and then through the inland waterways of Europe down to the Med, and then on to the Adriatic, etc.

The boat had no built in tanks, so that's what I'm now doing. My question is regarding black / grey water holding tanks. Is there any place where I can access what the current and anticipated legal requirements are ?

I understand that places like Greece do not allow 'bubbly water' to be pumped overboard (which I interpret to mean clothes washing water), but what about water from a shower or sink ?

Are the same regulations in place for the inland waterways of France and Holland ? Again is there a reliable but easy to read database of the regulations ?

I've also decided to go for an eco-toilet (composting) and so will separate urine from solids. So the question then is regarding urine going directly overboard or does it need to go into a yellow holding tank ?

Much appreciate someone pointing me in the right direction to find the facts, and also any real experience of brushes with the authorities (re these matters) in the cruising grounds I'm intending to visit in the next few years.

Big Thanks,
Pete :encouragement:

 

[Yngmar]

The RYA has some guidance: http://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/boating-abroad/Pages/holding-tanks.aspx

 

[Tranona]

There are no general rules, except regarding fitting of holding tanks on new boats, which don't concern you. Rules vary from country to country and even within countries as there are often local restrictions. Rules are usually expressed in terms of what and where you can discharge (or not) rather than how you store your waste. In addition they are often poorly advertised and even more poorly policed. The exception is Turkey where the rules are very clearly defined and require you to account for your waste disposal by keeping a log of your discharge/pumpout. Holland inland waterways are also strict on enforcement, but it is less of an issue because of the availability of pumpouts and shore facilities. France has no enforced restrictions on its inland waterways. Overall the provision of pumpouts is very poor and patchy.

So, what to do? most people where possible fit holding tanks for black water using ISO fittings for the pumpout. Composting toilets are very rare for the simple reason that a conventional sea toilet and a well designed holding tank is perfectly adequate. There is a tendency towards gravity tanks rather than pumped systems for economy and simplicity - most new production boats use this system. The important thing is to get as big a capacity as you can. You will find good information on designing and building holding tank systems from TekTanks or Leesan. Both also supply the gear or build tanks to suit, and Vetus do a good range of tanks.

The whole issue is overblown - there really is no problem if you have this kind of system and use your commonsense. Using shoreside facilities where possible and discharging away from land and particularly anchorages which is what others do. You will find little evidence of problems with the authorities, perhaps because they recognise that there really is not a problem and the law is very poor and difficult to enforce.

If you want sort of "official" advice then there is a good summary of the current situation in Europe on the RYA site under Environmental Advice and Boating Abroad.

 

[AndersG]

Never heard of any rules for grey water in Greece.
Pumping the toilet is probably not allowed in theory but there are very few pumpouts and I expect the percentage of boats that both have and use a tank to be very low. I do occasionally see people swimming off their boats in port but that's not something I would recommend...

 

[jrudge]

The whole thing really is a disgrace.

In mallorca I have only seen one pump out and that did not work.

As such there is no option but to discharge at sea which in modern Europe is remiss

 

[Tranona]

The whole thing really is a disgrace.

In mallorca I have only seen one pump out and that did not work.

As such there is no option but to discharge at sea which in modern Europe is remiss

What do you expect when it easy for the virtue seekers to pass unworkable laws rather than deal with the practical consequences!

 

[sailaboutvic]

90% of the seas around the Med you,won't find pump out station , a few around Turkey and the odd one here and there and even if there was , how many people would bother to use them I wonder , I dont see a problem with pumping out in open sea away from land , what I have objection too is the people who pump out in anchorage and in harbour because they are too laze to move to open water to pump out, these will be the same people who wouldn't use a pump out if it was 50 mts from them .
Going back to the OP question , if you are at the stage of building the boat , put in as bigger black tank as you can , if you can fit in a grey tank too , then do so ,
although I not yet met anyone with a grey tank .
And make sure you have a pump out fitting on deck .

 

[NornaBiron]

if you can fit in a grey tank too , then do so ,
although I not yet met anyone with a grey tank .

Yes you have!

 

[sailaboutvic]

Yes you have!

You have a grey tank ?? mind you the size of your boat I not surprise

 

[NornaBiron]

You have a grey tank ?? mind you the size of your boat I not surprise

We do, 500 litres, although the capacity is dwindling, probably a bit of soapy sludge in the bottom!

 

[Yngmar]

My boat came with an additional valve that connects the sink drain with the toilet intake. So if you open that valve and close the sink outlet seacock as well as the toilet intake, you can now pump the sinks contents through the toilet (flushing included) into the holding tank instead of letting it run overboard. I'm guessing this modification was done to satisfy the rules of some place that forbade grey water dumping, or perhaps to permit flushing with freshwater instead of seawater.

 

[30sqm]

Thanks guys for your feedbacks. I should be Ok then. I have x2 approx 140 ltr grey water tanks, one for the shower / wash basin and the other for the galley sink.

And because I have an adversity to holes through the hull, and have little space for a large black water tank (the majority of which will inevitably be filled with flushing water) - I've gone against the mainstream regarding black water, and have opted to make and fit an eco / composting toilet with urine separator. For that I can use the shower / wash basin holding tank if that is not otherwise required or else I have a dedicated 25 litre tank, should it be necessary. Flushing the shower / basin water through the 'yellow water' tank is something I considered as it will water down that discharged.

My general nature is to be considerate of others so I hope not to offend or worse.

I might add that my boat is a on older model of 30ft cruising catamaran (max heeling at 15 deg rather than 45 of many a monohull), so a dry toilet is feasible.

Should the two 140 ltr tanks not be used for grey water, then I can quite easily convert them to side-deck rain water catch tanks, and use that water for a deck wash.

Again many thanks,
Pete

 

[Monique]

Caution with composting toilets. I do not have one but I know quite a few boats with them.

PONG! is the word... on all of them. S**t stinks regardless what the greenies think....