What alternatives to Princess 38?

EugeneR

EugeneR

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We're looking for a flybridge and would appreciate suggestions for models or even specific boats for us to look at.

Model requirements:
- 2000+, 38ft+ flybridge for family use
- £100-£130k. Could go higher if we sell (25k?) or trade in (30k?) our 2004 Bayliner 285 first.
- Easy access to engines and key parts to keep them clean and in perfect condition.
- We prefer interior space rather than sunbeds or extra heads.

So far, we've looked at the Princess 38 and 40 but will be looking at Phantom 38 (£20k cheaper) and, possibly, Sealine F42/5 shortly (larger for same money).

Which others models could you recommend?
What models should we avoid?
Any warning signs we should watch out for e.g. rusted engines, etc?
Any specific boats that you feel we should look at?

Feel free to PM me with a link if you have / know of a good example that falls into this category. Even better if you have a realistic price and/or want to trade down to a 285 :-)
 
if you like interior space have a look at sealine 410/f43 for that money.
if you look at f425 go for one with the 430 or 480 Hp engines. the 370s are a tad small for it.

I think its a good time to buy/trade in your bayliner as you have a good price differential for your next move. All the Princess/Fairline/Sealines/Jeanneau are good sound boats at that size and price and they all have the same engine/gearbox combinations, volvo 63Ps or 74Ps. Find the model you like then find the best example/deal for your money.

regarding condition - overall cleanliness helps, a bit of rust on the engines is usually nothing, a puddle of oil or antifreeze needs investigating. on a sea trial see if the engines will make max revs with normal temps and pressures for a mile or two, with no excessive smoke and noise. (take someone with you who knows the particular make and model). Go around the boat and switch everything on and off and check it works. I now make a list before I go as I am usually too nervous/excited to think properly otherwise. Afterwards check the bilges again for oil and water leaks as someone may have had a clean up before to hide something.

great fun looking
 
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So far, we've looked at the Princess 38 and 40 but will be looking at Phantom 38 (£20k cheaper) and, possibly, Sealine F42/5 shortly (larger for same money).

Which others models could you recommend?



Have you considered a Broom,vast internal space,excellent sea boat and the the ability to get far inland which is something none of the others mentioned can do unless you hack off the radar arch.
You have of course considered the fact that all these bigger heavy boats are going to cost you around 100.00 per hour for fuel at any decent speed. ?
Some heretics might suggest that a Broom is a lot easier to sell on at a later date due to its multi faceted capabilites as opposed to a only any good for blasting from marina to marina flybridge.
 
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another one would be the sealine f44 or 420. most of these sealines have the radar mounted on a turret that flips backwards lowering the overall height. (2 wing nuts and a rope and gently lower it back). also essex boat yards have a sealine f37 2003 in your price range looking for px too.
 
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oldgit said:
Have you considered a Broom,vast internal space,excellent sea boat and the the ability to get far inland which is something none of the others mentioned can do unless you hack off the radar arch.
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Interesting idea. From memory, they also have nice aft cabins. Will have a look at them.

oldgit said:
You have of course considered the fact that all these bigger heavy boats are going to cost you around 100.00 per hour for fuel at any decent speed. ?
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Yes, and not nice. I'm expecting a bit, but not a lot, more than our boat which is on petrol at the moment. Recent "how much to cross the channel" comparisons seemed to confirm that.
 
We are currenlty looking at the Azimut 39. 40 ft long, 2 en suite cabins, really stylish (in my eyes), good mechanicals and build. Perhaps the fly is not as usable as others at it only seats 4 in std format, as there is a huuuuuuuge sunpad. I would consider adding additional seating for the UK.
 
To explain the 2000+ requirement....

SWMBO wants something "as new" and reliable for the next 10+ years. Given that, 10-12 years is already a stretch but seems to be a sensible compromise between that and price for us. We've seen some stunning examples, as well as some rotten ones too.

Of course, older but with newer engines might improve reliability, so we (or rather, I) remain open minded.

Personally, I would have liked to get the newer generation Volvo engines - mostly for resale value in 10 years' time - but those seems to start from around 2004 only.
 
I would endorse oldgit's comments about a Broom....but then I would wouldn't I? :-)

On a serious note you will pay a bit more for a Broom than a Sealine/Princess/Fairline flybridge but you get more for your money too IMHO. Accomodation is a lot better and the sheltered helm works really well.

All down to personal taste in he end though.....
 
Answer depends on where you plan to boat and what type of boating. UK or Med, cruising or day boating? Also where you are in the family cycle of life (eg children sleeping on board with parents, or primarily couple with occasional adult couple guests). These are big factors on the internal layout.

+1 for aft cabin deigns like Broom, Atlantic if for cruising in UK climate, BUT
Flybridge or sportscruiser design better suited to warm med climate where your main saloon will be semi outdoor shaded from sun.
 
Regarding engines.The problems with older engines will be purely down to age and lack of maintance,perhaps in worse case things like heat exchangers and such.
With modern power units as well as the lack of servicing you also need to be aware of the sudden failure of electronic components which you simply cannot anticipate.
From reading this forum and others failure of various electronic bits and pieces controlling engine and and other functions is not unknown.
At least with an old fashioned engine virtually any marine diesel workshop can fix it,with modern Volvo stuff its Volvo or nothing.
The whole thrust of modern marine diesels has been to squeeze as much power out of exisiting units as possible,with engine economy probably an after thought only considered in todays green climate.
If you are not after that last 20 hp or desperately trying save 50 gallons over the season,older engine technology should not be discounted out of hand..
 
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More modern engines are likely to be higher stressed than their predessessors, ie have more specific power and torque. This is fine as long as the engine lifing and maintenance are correctly adhered to. They should run cleaner and be more economical, but will be electronically sensed and controlled, hence more opportunities for difficult to diagnose problems.

On balance, I would incline toward a modern engine, but there will be others on here who will disagree.
 
EugeneR said:
To explain the 2000+ requirement....

SWMBO wants something "as new" and reliable for the next 10+ years. Given that, 10-12 years is already a stretch but seems to be a sensible compromise between that and price for us. We've seen some stunning examples, as well as some rotten ones too.

Of course, older but with newer engines might improve reliability, so we (or rather, I) remain open minded.

Personally, I would have liked to get the newer generation Volvo engines - mostly for resale value in 10 years' time - but those seems to start from around 2004 only.
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Not sure about the new reliable thing vers old, I think its more about use and care.

we had a bayliner that was only 3 years old, there was always something going wrong and not just bayliner issues, well know makes going wrong because the previous owner hadnt cared for it.
Jabsco head
jabsco macerator
charger etc
I changed it for a 15 year old cornich (with Volvo engines), I was very concerned about an older boat but
very little went wrong, in the main the only work I did was adding enhancements.

My Princess has been well looked after and again very little has gone wrong, ( I changed a gearbox this year (well col did) it would have lasted another season or two but I changed it before it packed up, apart from that I havent done anything other than service .

I agree with other comments about not disregarding older engines , I looked at a P38 with Volvo 63P , I didnt change because my engines are newer cleaner and more fuel frugal but the 63P are very good engines , you will probably have less trouble than much newer D4 .

Good luck with your search :)

PS
If you dont want huge amounts of work then try to resist the 'bargain', the one that has been for sale unused for 18 months but cheap (£20k and a load of sweat can soon vanish on renewing tat.)
 
EugeneR said:
We're looking for a flybridge and would appreciate suggestions for models or even specific boats for us to look at.

Model requirements:
- 2000+, 38ft+ flybridge for family use
- £100-£130k. Could go higher if we sell (25k?) or trade in (30k?) our 2004 Bayliner 285 first.


Just for reference,mate of mine has just paid sub 150K for very nice 2003/4 Phantom 46 with around 500 hours on the clock,there are bargains to be had if you search hard and have the readies.
Click to expand...
 
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oceanfroggie said:
Answer depends on where you plan to boat and what type of boating. UK or Med, cruising or day boating? Also where you are in the family cycle of life (eg children sleeping on board with parents, or primarily couple with occasional adult couple guests). These are big factors on the internal layout.
Click to expand...

Our plan is to keep the boat in the UK but to explore further afield when we have the time. Also, we're hoping to extend our season and get more use even during those summer rains.

We have two young boys and they're excited about getting their own cabin where there will be storage for their toys (Lego, PS2, etc). They will move to the saloon when friends, family, etc are staying with us.

oldgit said:
Just for reference,mate of mine has just paid sub 150K for very nice 2003/4 Phantom 46 with around 500 hours on the clock,there are bargains to be had if you search hard and have the readies.
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That sounds like a really good deal - I would have been interested at that price. Do you know if it was a low offer that got accepted?
 
That sounds like a really good deal - I would have been interested at that price. Do you know if it was a low offer that got accepted?[/QUOTE]

Yes offer was accepted,seller is still looking for his arm :). Chum is now clutching the keys and raiding the local chandleries and tool shops spending some of the money he saved on all those vital little bits and pieces one cannot do without.
Now waiting for a Williams at the right money to blimming clog up the swim platform.
Can only repeat what have been told but at the moment in the current financial climate this was not an unusual deal if you know the right people to talk to and are prepared not be too fussy about exact boat and will not be faffing about with finance and are prepared to buy as seen.
Same outfit have got a boat that cost squillions up for sale at low millions.
They are currently ripping out orignal owners nightmare interior and replacing with something less eyewatering to make it sellable :)
 
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We looked at several boats yesterday. Removed the newer F34 and Azimut 39 so far. Convinced SWMBO that newer isn't better always, it is use and maintenance that counts. Princess 38 and Phantom 38 remain top contenders. We missed the F37 and also still want to look at F43 and Broom.

Thanks to everyone who privately suggested boats so far - very helpful.
 
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